Screw the optimism, this team, our team, is in big trouble. ManUre on Sunday, Newcastle the following Friday, Liverpool the Saturday after that and Chelsea the week after that; nicely inter-sprinkled with two far flung Champions League away games? Unless we pull off a Houdini of an escape act our season could well be over by mid-October! It's gonna be an intense few weeks, but, don't get on board this ride without a crash helmet!
I'm with you Martymarts optimism, however well meant is misplaced here. Arsenals slide into mid table obscurity is an outrage and only the resignation of Arsene Wenger will halt it.
Re: I'm with you Martymarts 8 posts, two of them on this board. You gotta give 'em credit - ManUre sure train their trolls young.
Dwinkler, I'm more interested in what you think, post meltdown. Are the last 2 games the re-emergence of a character flaw (folding when the opposition get stuck-in), that cost us the title last time out, or just early season poor performance? You stated that Pires has not returned to his pre-injury form, nor as Freddie, how long do we keep faith - till January or the end of the season? Come on you Gunners!!!
Re: I'm with you Martymarts Yes, gloating is in order, after stealing the title and watching us humiliated this evening, but, we won't slip into mid table obscurity. A couple of tweaks and you lot will be running scared again. The real question is whether or not this regime has got the extra millimetre to take the CL. Having the final at OT was not enough motivativation for your lot to do the business, so we already know that you don't haven't got what it takes!
Can see a LOT of frustration here but again full marks to the board members for NOT going over the edge. It is worth remembering that the club our friendly little trolls support lost TWICE to Deportivo in first group phase play then beat the Spaniards twice in the two-legged quarter-final. This is ONE result-one nauseatingly miserable and disappointing result, but ten points from our next four and we're through no matter what happens in Milan. And a win in Kiev and we're in second anyway so there. Perspective is needed here now. Would we feel any better in two weeks had we won tonight and lost in Russia(The Ukraine actually)? The key now is to focus on Sunday. I'll take the heat. I think Keown should be brought in-for SOL. His confidence is extremely shaken now. We all know he'll be fine, but we don't know if he'll be fine Sunday and I think if he makes any big mistakes Sunday it will be that much harder for him to get back to his best. And ManUre have no real pace so we won't get beat tracking back. We'll be allright Sunday because this club's confidence in Europe is shaky at best. There is no such problem going to Old Trafford. Look how we bounced back in England in 2002 after going out. Even last year(still think if Sol doesn't get banned we lift the trophy)I think the club will be anxious to put tonight behind them and very aggressive. And with Scholes out and Giggs moved forward in his role, and Solskajer a serious doubt on the right they have no real threat on the wings. Keown or Campbell can handle vanDivesallthetime IN THE BOX but I think Sol is shaken and prone to being had right now, so I'd go with Keown to take some pressure off Sol until a lot of the crap(and I don't mean his father's illness-you're in our prayers, all)is resolved so he can relax and play as we know he can. I still see us winning 2-0, 2-1 , or maybe 3-1 Sunday as we can play our game better on their larger pitch and they really can't exploit our weaknesses with their team out there now. So keep your heads and hopes the team keep theirs...
Excellent questions. I'm not the knee-jerk type, but I sure wouldn't mind seeing some young blood on the subs bench (or even in the starting lineup) and see if their presence can truly light a fire, so to speak, under some of our possibly complacent regulars. I'm going to say two things that I thought I'd never say: 1. I wouldn't mind if one of those players was Jermaine Pennant. Put Aliadiere in there as well, sit Freddie or Ray or Sylvain or Dennis for a game or two. See how the kids do, then see how the veterans respond. 2. I think that Wenger is a brilliant team builder - the best in the world - but not a great tactical manager. He's very predictable in his formation, and is loathe to change his personnel any sooner than the 65th minute or so. Sir Red Nose, on the other hand, doesn't seem to care who he replaces or when (or who he sells or when, for that matter,) and I really think that "fear of God" factor is unsettling enough to his players that it keeps the regulars insecure and always has them fighting for their place in the team. I'm a pretty logical person, or I try to be, but I don't think a good team's decline is always based on logical, tangible factors. As reluctant as I am to try to play Arsenal's team shrink, I think complacency is a big factor, and it's infecting the team right now. I've seen it first hand with the Avalanche, who have underperformed since their Stanley Cup win nearly three seasons ago. Yankees fans have seen it the past few seasons, Lakers fans saw it this season. Management's a fine line, isn't it? On the one hand, you want consistency in your team so players know their teammates' every tendency and action; on the other hand, you want to continue to keep the atmosphere fresh and alive by bringing in new players who can put your established players under threat. Again, I hate to say this (and I'm choking as I write it), but SRN has proven time and again he has no problem pulling the plug on veterans. After '98 he got rid of Pallister for Stam; he booted Yorke and Cole just a few seasons after the height of their partnership; he brings in a relative unknown this season to supplant a World Cup winner in goal. And, of course, he sells his iconic captain this off-season. He's a heartless pr*ck, but he's effective. Maybe Arsene needs to start kicking a few boots. Or maybe we just need to wait until the team gels - I have no idea.
Sorry, I was thinking, obviously, of Beckham, the England captain. But I can see Ferguson flogging Keane this off-season, so maybe I'm just ahead of my time.
Good response Dwinkler. Sometimes the spleen takes precedence over the knees! Don't agree about Ray. My MOTM on Sat, he should have started instead of Gilberto. While a personal quality, AW's loyalty to his starting 11 is hurting the team. I think he should have been much more aggresive this evening. Tonight was one of TH14's low points, carrying on from the Pompey game, and he should have pulled him after about 30 minutes. Ricks pre-match thoughts were spot on. In my crystal ball I see we've only put off the inevertible. Our midfield has one more good season in it and in January we should find a right back and a strong forward who can hold the ball. In the longer term DB10 & Kanu(hopefully) are done and Pires, Ljungberg, Edu and Gilberto should be moved on. If we don't make the CL semi's then perhaps it will be time for AW to head for Spain, cos we don't seemed to have learned much from the last 5 years? Early doors I Know, but there it is.
It's too bad Senderos is hurt...I'd love to see him thrown into a situation like this to see what he can do. As for this, I think dwinkler's analysis is brilliantly spot-on. These guys need a fire under their collective ass YESTERDAY.
Well, if getting humiliated the way we did today doesn't light a fire under their a**es, then I don't know what will.
OK, Dan, you have given us great insights, as per usual, but one thing I think is missing from your take on Pires' and Freddie's form last year: Outside the fact that they both were coming back from injury last year (Pires' the more serious of the 2), the other factor in this "What's wrong with Super-Bob and Freddie?" conundrum is clearly the drop in form of DB10. Two years ago Dennis played fantastically, setting up Freddie numerous times and Pires, as well. Bergkamp's downturn in form correlates to Freddie and Bob's downturn. That's why, when everyone is screaming for a strike partner for Henry, the real answer lies in central midfield. AW has to find someone with the ability to get Pires, Ljungberg, and Henry the ball in space, no doubt about it. As far as the club needing a swift kick in the a**, I couldn't agree more. AW has only gone off on the team once, at halftime of that 5-1 shellacking we took from manUre 3 years ago. Hopefully AW can find a way to motivate these guys, and in a hurry. A bad performance at OT on Sunday and this club might be scarred for life.
A few points to tackle most of the post-match comments made: 1. It was so obvious that we needed a central defender in the Summer, that I (like a majority of Arsenal supporters) was amazed that nothing was done. Apparently defenders of the class of Mexes and Ayala were available for £10m or less. This should have been where the transfer budget was spent, not gathering dust in a bank account. Adams and Dixon have never been replaced (it's interesting that the number 2 and 6 shirts have not been taken up) and the sale of Upson was misguided. Maybe Kolo Toure will one day become a central defender, but he certainly isn't one now. Inter's second string strikers made him look like a naive fool. If Wenger is to continue with his plan to make him into a centre half he needs to play the position for at least a season in the reserves. The Champions League is not the place to learn your trade. 2. Pires has been off form this season. We know he has it in him, maybe he needs a break from first-team action in order to sort his head out. I'd stick Parlour on the right and Fred on the left on Sunday and sit Pires on the bench in order to give us a bit more solidity at Old Trafford. 3. Sylvain Wiltord's lack of technique is embarassing. Why is he playing? He can't trap a bag of cement and can't pass to save his life. Is he being played in order to get him to sign a new contract? If so, drop him and let him leave on a free at the end of the season and save us his wages for the next few years. Personally I love Bergkamp, but even his most ardent supporter realises that he's coming to the end of his career and cannot play 90 minutes week in week out. Aliadiere's time has come. Put him in up front with Henry as the deep-lying striker (which is where he ends up most of the time anyway) and let them get on with it. It's about time Wenger gave the Highbury youths their heads. 4. Thierry Henry. He should be told never to take a penalty again. He has missed quite a few now. I reckon Cole would be up for it, no messing, just lash it into the corner. If anyone saw Paul Scholes take his kick in the Charity shield, that's how it's done. High with power into the top corner. Also, last night Henry carried on with his lack of effort from the Portsmouth game. After half-time he came out and proceeded to run around like a headless chicken; taking on every Inter defender in sight and subsequently losing the ball. Where is this effort from the first minute? He would do well to learn a work-ethic from the like of Parlour, 200% effort from the first minute to the last. He also needs to learn that when we are chasing a game, we still need to play to a plan. This isn't the school playground, he won't be able to take them all on an score. Cannavaro was probably wondering what all the hype was about. 5. Gilberto. He needs to learn to put his foot in, or ship out back to Brazil. Pulling out of tackles just isn't good enough in Europe. I gave him the benefit of the doubt after last season, that he was settling into English football and he'd be up to speed this year, but he's started off exactly the same. Wenger's way is to play two tough-tackling defensive midfielders. Gilberto is simply not holding his end up leaving Vieira to do the work of two men in the midfield. He needs to learn to put himself in where it hurts or move on. All of the above moaning illustrates about one percent of the abject disappointment I feel after the last two games. This needs sorting. And now.
Let's hope our boys remember this: and rally to win at least our group. Great article from ArseWeb, here: http://www.arseweb.org/www/newsreel//t9i292.html I read Rick's lambasting at ArseAm and I think that it suffices to say that we got owned. On our home pitch. As I see it now, the best thing I can do is put it behind me and say "Come on you yellows!!" for our match at Old Trafford. Let's hope it goes better than our last piece of shite. Rien mais le Treble! OPArsenal
OK, I guess that it won't let me post that image. Apparently, ArseBlog are very protective of their stuff... Good Christ, that gave me a shock. Rien mais le Treble! OPStartled
And how! Having not seen the match like the rest of the Yanks not privy to a football-savvy pub, I can't speak to specifics about yesterday. But you're spot on about Gilberto. For such a huge guy his tackling is soft. Edu dishes it out much better (but also gives up fouls left and right). And our problems with the back four stem, in my opinion, from our sale of Upson. The guy was coming into form two years ago, even if he is injury prone. If we knew our transfer monies were going to be cut off, why would we unload talent in our weakest area? I was disturbed by that sale last year, and now my fears are coming to roost. Pires does seem to have lost some fire. Don't know if a benching would fix that or not...sometimes that sends players' confidence into a tailspin. I guess I'm still a Wiltord backer. We always knew his touch and his turns were unlike the rest of our guys' skills, but he runs his rocks off and does add something for the defenders to worry about. Have to disagree with you on Henry's PKs. He hits them with confidence and pace, even after having one turned aside. Bergkamp, in comparison, had his confidence shattered after THAT PK that YOU KNOW WHO blocked in THAT CUP TIE (you know the one).
I've seen three Henry penalties in the past few days: 1. The first against Portsmouth - Not hit particularly hard, but in the corner. The keeper gets very close, but it goes in. 2. The retake against Portsmouth - A poor penalty which goes in because the keeper dives the wrong way. Not hit hard, and nearer the centre of the goal than the corner. An easy save if the keeper guesses right. Retakes are tough, especially after having scored the first, but this is a world class striker we're talking about! 3. Against Inter - Towards the corner, but hit weakly. A big keeper like Toldo easily covers the ground to save. I can remember misses in big matches against Juventus and Chelsea last year also. I'm sure a more comprehensive list will be drawn up by our friends at The Sun when he misses a few more. I think his confidence is gone like Bergkamp's went after the miss in the FA Cup semi, but he's too arrogant to admit it. I want someone who takes a penalty like Alan Shearer, more often than not it goes in the corner and is hit with enough force that even if the keeper guesses right he's unlikely to get anywhere near it.
The Arse was just given a little futbol lesson. Inter just proved that the level of play in the EPL is rather low, especially defensively. Wenger need to find some big, tough players. While the lanky speed demons looked rather flash streaking up the field in their long and pretty white stockings, they were quickly dispossessed when nearing the danger area. Some of the Gunners passing reminded me of youth matched I officiated last week.
what an interesting prediction now what was the score again 3 to 0 inter milan that'll teach you arsenal fans not to bet against inter milan