Armchair Midfielder

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by DigitalTron, Feb 22, 2003.

  1. Lanky134

    Lanky134 New Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    134, 3, 6
    Lost me by the second sentence:

    Two years ago, Ray Hudson was not the coach of this team.

    Then there's this:

    Zenga, anyone?
     
  2. cjma77

    cjma77 New Member

    Sep 18, 2002
    Gettysburg, PA , USA
    wow, eight wonderful years. Well at least it says were up, and not anything about "buying the cup". DC has really rekindled my faith this off season.I haven't been this excited since '96. At least were not the metro's were we clean house in hopes of winning.
     
  3. Lanky134

    Lanky134 New Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    134, 3, 6
    You mean like we did before the 2001 season and after a few weeks in 1996?
     
  4. cjma77

    cjma77 New Member

    Sep 18, 2002
    Gettysburg, PA , USA
    true,......but I like us. ;)
     
  5. DigitalTron

    DigitalTron New Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    And Robert Warzycha. Yeah, unfortunately this guy made a lot of mistakes in this article, like calling Oscar Pareja the Burn's Dmid and recommending McKeon for that position. But, I think he does make a decent assessment overall of who improved and who did not. I think he underestimates the Burn quite a bit though.

    But hey, anytime the USSF puts up an MLS article we should reward it with hits. Promoting soccer means acknowledging media attention when it's given. We're not going to agree with everything, and not everything is going to be of the best quality, but we don't have too many places to go for good pre-season rundowns.

    -Tron
     
  6. ursula

    ursula Member

    Feb 21, 1999
    Republic of Cascadia
    Yeah this article is a bit wierd in that there are various mistakes in the details, but overall I think he's got the teamws pegged as to who's improved and who's not.

    I agree with his assessment of the Burn- what have they done to get better really? To go further- although for awhile last year they were maybe the hottest team in the league at no time were they better than either San Jose or LA. Then they tailed off at the end, got a middle of the pack seeding for the playoffs, and were booted in the first round. To me that screams "good but not great". Now the only moves they've done this offseason was to let their youngsters get better (and lose Rodriguez). Several of their players played better last year then they ever will again (Pareja, Deering, Kreis. Morrow). Maybe if they get Nunez and he clicks with Kreis (which Graziani didn't do) they'll be serious contenders. But until then they are a lot of nice names who aren't collectively good enough. (See C-bus).

    I also think KC and Colorado (who was a better team than Dallas was come playoff time last year) might be better than he expects, though that would mean that their holes don't get too exposed. We'll see.
     
  7. JeffGMc

    JeffGMc Member

    Oct 14, 2000
    New York City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I don't think anyone wants to remember that fiasco. I know I don't like to think about Campos between the posts for any American team...
     
  8. Lanky134

    Lanky134 New Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    134, 3, 6
    Neither of those bothered me in the least. :)
     
  9. JoeW

    JoeW New Member

    Apr 19, 2001
    Northern Virginia, USA
    I agree about Dallas. We talk about their great drafts the past 2 years--yet Dallas could be in a situation where every draftee of the past 2 years (including Gbandi) is either a reserve (or off the team--Morrison, Bussey). Granted, it's a deep team. But the starting 11 isn't that much better or worse than Chicago's. They lose Zarco and they lose Jordan (who may be a journeyman, but boy they're putting a lot of faith in a raw Countess who has trouble staying healthy).
     
  10. Sundevil9

    Sundevil9 Member

    Nov 23, 1999
    Reston, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Since he never played for DC, it was always a pleasant thought......
    :)
     
  11. stopper4

    stopper4 Member

    Jan 24, 2000
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That article drew some odd conclusions.


    It should read:

    In: Brad Davis, Chris Gbandi, Shavar Thomas
    In LIMBO: Phil Sayler, Matt McKeon
    Out: Jordan, Zarco, Olivares

    Dallas weak at defense? We've probably got as good a back 4 as anybody, and this year we added Chris Gbandi and Shavar Thomas.

    Pareja is more of a Dmid, or an Hmid, as ya'll like to say. He does pick his spots and goes forward on occasion. Deering plays behind Oscar and does largely the same thing, he just stays home a little more. Our attack is largely generated through our wing play: Chivas, O'Brien, Vaca.

    I think our swoon last year is directly attributable to injuries to our forwards: Kreis, Cerritos, Johnson, and Pareja, the heart and soul of our team.

    Remember the fateful week where we had to play 3 games in 5 days? Streched our depleted roster just a little too thin, and we went 0-3. Before that week, we're in the running for the #1 playoff seed and the U.S. Open Cup. After that week, we gutted out 3rd place in the west.

    We're about as upset over loosing Zarco as you guys were at losing McKinley. Maybe less, as Zarco wasn't even a starter.

    Check out the "roster dance" over at 3rddegree.net We've got an open SI slot and the salary to use it. Jeffries has confirmed that we're looking for a scorer.(crossing our fingers that it's Tyson) We're not a finished product yet.

    As for goalkeeper? We're probably going to sign Jeff Cassar, a former MLS starter, as a backup. He's solid enough if Countess goes down.

    Who's DC current backup, Earnie Stewart??
     
  12. JoeW

    JoeW New Member

    Apr 19, 2001
    Northern Virginia, USA
    Stopper4, I admire your passion for the Burn. Now, step back a second and try to look at this dispasionately.

    1. Rimando has a pretty good track record in MLS. Countess has gotten hurt being a reserve in 2 years and hasn't demonstrated he'll be a good keeper in MLS. He is (to be fair) a superb shotstopper. As for Cassar, calling him a "former MLS starter" is like calling Bo Oshionyi or Mark Doughterty former MLS starters. Technically it's true but they were dreadful. I don't think that means your GKing will be dreadful, only that at present, there is no-one in Dallas that has shown they will be a proven MLS keeper, no-one that would be considered one of the top 8 goal keepers in MLS (in a 10 team league mind you). Countess could register some tremendous improvement. But he hasn't shown that yet.

    2. As for the backline, if Gbandi doesn't start, that what you're saying is that you expect the same backline as last year's to be significantly improved (even though Morrow is a year older). Was last year Deering's career best or can he duplicate that? I do know that prior to 2002, the rep Deering had with most Dallas fans was that he was overpaid and if he were cut, it wouldn't be a disaster.

    3. I don't disagree that Dallas has wonderful depth this year. But who does Shavar Thomas beat out? And frankly, I'm going to be surprised if Gbandi starts at left back. You take 2 years out of the game and it shows. Consequently, Dallas has substracted Jordan and Rodriguez and may get contributions from Gbandi and Thomas (less likely--he has to beat someone out or someone has to get hurt).

    None of that sounds to me like one of the best defenses in MLS. Not a bad defense. But there are a number of others I'd look at as stronger (based upon both last year's performance and also the personnel mix).
     
  13. TEConnor

    TEConnor New Member

    Feb 22, 1999
    Two things:

    The term Hmid: I don't know where this came from or what it means, but it is loony talk to me. Can we agree that Pareja is a central midfielder?

    Tyson: I watched him last night on Galavision in Honduras v Guatemala (the UNCAF championship). He absolutely sucked. Stunk up the joint. Horrible. One of the worst players on the field. The announcers said that this game is much like the rest of the tourney, which has been horrible for him.

    Therefore: I hope Dallas lands Nunez and lands him for max salary.

    Tim
     
  14. DigitalTron

    DigitalTron New Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    Connor, Hmid is simply shorthand for Holding Midfielder, it's someone whose primary roles are defending and keeping possession. They add some to the offense, but are not true attacking players or #10 type guys. Claudio Reyna is a good example of an Hmid. I'd call Pareja more of an attacking midfielder, personally, but one could certainly classify him as an Hmid. Calling him a Dmid though, that's simply incorrect because their Dmid, Deering, plays directly behind him in defensive support. Deering is more of a Dmid, but might also be classified as an Hmid as well.

    Dallas' defensive problems--and they have some--are primarily in discipline, not talent. T-Bone and Morrow are quite solid, but the wingbacks lack tactical discipline.

    Broome attacks 90% of the game, so you might as well call him an additional left winger. He has a lot of speed and diligently tracks back, but he's not much of a defender in that regard IMHO. Gbandi should help them significantly defensively and provide more impact than Broome offensively as well.

    Suarez has all of the tools to be a great right back, he's big, strong, fast, can play good defense and is quite good getting into the attack. But he has some flaws, the most notable ones being his lack of experience tactically and his mediocre crossing skills. Suarez is often caught forward leaving Dallas playing the uncomfortable 253 or 262 formation with only Morrow and T-Bone in defense. Morrow is simply too slow to cover that much ground, so he can be exposed when Suarez is caught forward. T-Bone cleans up a lot, but he cannot do it all. Suarez needs to learn when to pick his spots and read the flow of play to determine when to start moving back into his defensive position. That will come with experience playing the position. Dallas needs to get Gbandi at left back so they have a legitimate 4th back to allow Suarez to safely move forward.

    Dallas' main problem is the lack of a quality Dmid. Deering did a decent job last season, but he's just not good enough there. Once Jordan Stone matures, he may be exactly what Dallas lacks defensively. Hopefully, then they'll move Vaca into the middle and their team will be very good from every position.

    DJ Countess is going to be a very good keeper, I have no problem with him as a starter. But as Joe pointed out so well, DJ does not have a good history of health. His nickname is "Psycho DJ" because he's a very strong personality with a lot of confidence--all good things. He's a great organizer for a kid his age and he's definitely an "in charge" type keeper, which I think this defense needs, particularly on the wings and for set pieces.

    Jambon, as for DC United, we have Doug Warren at backup, who is good enough to start in MLS, so DC United probably has the best keeper solution in the league right now. If both keepers go down, then we'd be in trouble, but so would any MLS team.

    -Tron
     
  15. JoeW

    JoeW New Member

    Apr 19, 2001
    Northern Virginia, USA
    Doug Warren is the backup. He's the starting Olympic team GK--ahead of Countess I might add.
     
  16. TEConnor

    TEConnor New Member

    Feb 22, 1999
    So, in a round about way, Pareja's a central midfielder? I appreciate your effort, but think these are too many words to waste on describing an already amorphous position.

    Tim
     
  17. Jambon

    Jambon Member

    Mar 3, 2000
    Austin, TX
    It seems to me that Dallas and DC have similar issues to deal with, only Dallas has been more successful doing so in recent years.

    Both will be heavily dependent on players with discouraging injury histories, Countess and Olsen. The loss of either (likely at some point) would be a harsh blow to their team. I think that Kovalenko is almost as big a dropoff from Olsen as Cassar is from Countess, though not quite.

    Both teams have had unacceptable production at the forward position. DC was simply pathetic all year long no matter who they trotted out. Dallas, despite superficially respectable numbers, choked embarassingly at the mere whiff of a "big game." Stewart should help DC a lot in this respect this season.

    Both central midfields are manned by team stalwarts on the downward side of their careers. In Etcheverry, DC has a former great. In Pareja/Deering, Dallas has former goods. Luckily for Dallas, the recent dropoff in ability of our midfield has been nowhere near as precipitous as that of DC. I think it's safe to say that no one in the league would trade either of Dallas's mids for Etcheverry based on recent form. Whichever team you support, you don't exactly have cause to celebrate the quality of service lately which has been a big contributor to our respective disappointments.

    Both defenses are good.

    This year Dallas will probably be the same thing they have practically always been, a gutty collection of overachievers who usually hit a wall at the end of the season. DC, on the other hand, will be the Colorado of last season - a few big time talents struggling to milk one last season out of a washed up former star despite the obvious drag he exerts on the team. I'd give them both about the same odds at this point.
     
  18. DigitalTron

    DigitalTron New Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    Uhhhh, yeah, and we can simplify it a couple more steps if you like. He's a midfielder. Or, he's a soccer player. I guess it depends upon how specific one wants to be. I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was just explaining the term. :) Sorry if it sounded otherwise.

    -Tron
     
  19. TEConnor

    TEConnor New Member

    Feb 22, 1999
    There is specific and then there is contrived. That is my point. I am all for specificity. However, the term "holding midfielder" or "Hmid" helps nobody describe or understand what Oscar Pareja does on a soccer field. He plays in the center of midfield. Sometimes he plays offense, sometimes he plays defense. Other times he looks lost. As you define the term, it does not describe his position. Again, I appreciate all the effort you put into your posts in this thread, but have a serious problem with this term. In part I am reacting to the post earlier on by a visitor asserting that "we" use the term "Hmid." It might have been easier and more direct to say earlier the following: I've been following and playing soccer for 20 years. I've never seen the term "Hmid" used for any practical purpose until the past few months on these boards. The term bothers me, as described before. Therefore, I don't think that its repetitive use is warranted. That's me.

    Cheers,
    Tim
     
  20. JoeW

    JoeW New Member

    Apr 19, 2001
    Northern Virginia, USA
    Jambon, I have a slightly different take on this.

    1. Age. Dallas is deep and has a fine group of talented, youthful backups. I think there is a lot of perception that DCU is aging. DCU actually has a pretty youthful bench (except for Stoichkov). If you compare starting ages of likely starting lineups (and I agree, "likely" is a caveat--for instance, I included EJ at 19 as a Dallas starter--if you add an SI it gets older) then I came up with DCU average 26 and Dallas averaging 27. DCU almost got younger as a starter lineup (adding Stewart offset the younger starters of Kovalenko, Nelsen and Ivanov).

    2. I think Dallas depends more on Countess than DCU depends upon Olsen.

    3. I think the larger issue for DCU isn't injury (though there will be some, and just as likely to be Quaranta than it is an older player except for Stoichkov), is callups. About half of the DCU roster has potential national team, olympic team or youth WC callups.
     
  21. Sundevil9

    Sundevil9 Member

    Nov 23, 1999
    Reston, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, Ritchie Williams played the GAMid (Give Away Midfielder) role last year and we weren't too happy with the results, so Hudson has decided to change his formation and institutionalize a HMid (Holding Mid). I think he should change it to a RGMid (Really Good Mid.)

    I agree with Tim, there's no need to overspecialize the roles on the field.
     

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