"Arizona heading a list of potential sites..." for Chivas USA Relocation

Discussion in 'Phoenix' started by kenntomasch, Aug 30, 2012.

  1. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    http://www.latimes.com/sports/sport...al-manager-20120830,0,3166391.story?track=rss

    "Vergara could also decide that move won't be enough to get his team out from under the large shadow of the deep-pocketed Galaxy -- Chivas USA's roommate at the Home Depot Center -- and may try to move the team out of state instead, with Arizona heading a list of potential sites."

    I'd be skeptical, but who the hell knows? I am not sure that having the Cardinals as your landlord would be appreciably better than having the Galaxy/AEG as your landlord.
     
  2. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I hope they move and rebrand. And as much as i'd like a team here in the southeast, i would believe that a team in the southwest would be befitting of a Chivas move.

    Arizona would be a good choice. Las Vegas, Austin, San Diego, and the Inland Empire would also be a good choices too. I wouldn't forget Albuquerque, Sacramento, El Paso, and Omaha either even if they are lower on the totem pole. Also, if they could push the Scorpions up, that would probably be the easiest.
     
  3. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Given Vergara just bought the other 50% of the team and now owns 100%, I would think leaving the Chivas brand behind would not be his first choice. People just seem to love re-brands so they can spend all day thinking up new names and scarves and badges and stuff.

    Why? Show your work.

    This the most hostile state to the demographic this club has targeted since Day One. The only realistic place to play means you have the Cardinals as your landlord and a stadium that's two and a half times as big as the one you currently can't sell tickets in, in a market that's a third the size of the one you'd be giving up. But, hey, it's virgin territory, therefore it must be a great choice.

    Kind of covering your bases, there?
     
  4. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Totem Pole?

    More racism from 11Bravo
     
    kenntomasch repped this.
  5. Autogolazo

    Autogolazo BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 19, 2000
    Bombay Beach, CA
    The only "shadow" here is Vergara's cheapness.

    He could use the L.A. lifestyle as bait for top players the same way the Galaxy do, he could have 3 DPs any time he wants, he just refuses to do it.

    Chivas USA is a man-made disaster. Perhaps Vergara thinks he can go be cheap in a smaller market and no one will bother him.
     
  6. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd love to see Vergara's first meeting with the governor where she asks to see his papers.
     
  7. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    Is there an appropriately sized air conditioned stadium they can move into? How much does it add to the expense of a stadium to have AC? I have no idea. The forecast temperature for 8pm tonight for Phoenix is 98 degrees.

    Maybe in July/August they can play games at 2am local time. They can be an after-hours club.
     
  8. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, there's Chase Field, but if you want to share with a baseball team....

    It's cooled off quite a bit here in the last 24 hours. 8pm in the heart of the summer it's usually still well over 100.

    You'd need to build a soccer stadium (again, unless you want to have the Cardinals as your landlord, and the Cardinals have said they've not really desired to either get into MLS or have MLS in their building), which has as many problems here as it would in LA. The state's not kicking in. We're one of three metro areas that has teams in the big four who play in four distinct arenas, so there aren't any municipalities around here likely to kick in to build the thing (and the state's not kicking in).
     
  9. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    dude, you are such a crybaby about your heritage. I've got Cherokee Indian in me and have a mixed family but you don't see me looking for every opportunity to cry about it.
     
  10. Killersheep

    Killersheep Member

    Sep 26, 2010
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have a hard time imagining a scenario where Chivas could succeed out here, even if they had an air conditioned stadium. There are a lot of Chivas Guad fans out here and very few (that I've met) associate with Chivas USA at all.
     
  11. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not a lot of anybody associates with Chivas USA. The (tenuous, to be fair) connection with the mothership has not paid off (perhaps because so many people who were in the demo that Chivas USA was launched to attract have fairly easy access to CD Guadalajara anyway, perhaps because it's Knockoff Chivas, perhaps because it's "too American," perhaps because it's MLS, perhaps because of all of those things).

    Chivas Arizona would likely have to overcome its identity, rather than be buoyed by it.
     
  12. Killersheep

    Killersheep Member

    Sep 26, 2010
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can imagine a scenario like the Cardinals (where is seems like home games are away games) as the best case scenario.
     
  13. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, the problem being...while there are a ton of Cowboys fans and Bears fans and Detroit Red Wings fans and Chicago Cubs fans here in the Valley, there aren't a lot of DC United fans or a lot of New England Revolution fans or even a lot of Real Salt Lake fans. You wouldn't have a scenario where you could say, "Well, there may be a lot of Bears fans here, but at least they paid for tickets.*"

    You can't even really sell the opposition when it comes to MLS because not many MLS teams (or MLS players) move the needle. Many have barely had enough time to gain traction in their own markets, much less had time to be able to resonate on a road trip level. The Galaxy can obviously draw on the road. Most other teams can't really do that.



    *Harder for them to do since the Cardinals put the Bears and Eagles games into three-game packages.
     
  14. Killersheep

    Killersheep Member

    Sep 26, 2010
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep this is all true, and as I said that away drawing teams would be the "best case scenario" which leads back to the original sentiment that "I have a hard time imagining a scenario where Chivas could succeed out here, even if they had an air conditioned stadium." It's a failed brand really, it's like trying to sell HD-DVD players, no one wants or supports it.
     
  15. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, I'm with you, I'd be very, very skeptical that he'd actually move here, and even more skeptical that it would be able to overcome all the challenges.
     
  16. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As far as the rebrand, anything has to be better than Chivas USA. Say it's Arizona that he moves to. Arizona Chivas, Chivas Arizona, Arizona Goats, or Club Deportivo Arizona "Chivas." Just drop the USA part of it from the official name. It just sounds like it belongs in a mighty ducks movie.

    As far as Arizona; i'm simply saying it's a good choice because of the fact that there would be a good market there for it. Obviously though there would be obstacles that would need to be cleared, but it is very possible. And I never made the argument that it would be a good choice because it's "virgin territory."
     
  17. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And I'm asking you to show your work.

    Those of us who live here do not believe there would be a good market for it (or we believe that the challenges negate some of the positives).

    "There would be a good market there for it" flies in the face of the beliefs of people who actually live here (and who pay attention).

    Obviously, the USMNT and USWNT have drawn well here in limited appearances. But that's not evidence of a market for MLS. Mexican club teams playing here have sometimes drawn well, sometimes not. That's not evidence of a market for MLS. The Red Bulls have played Mexican teams here the last two years (first at U of P and then at Chase Field) and drawn pretty well (they marketed it heavily), but that's not evidence of a market for MLS. The Galaxy and Fire drew 8k to Sun Devil Stadium three years ago, and that's not evidence of a market for MLS.

    There are soccer fans here, but the supposed Hispanic "soccer market" doesn't necessarily care for MLS, not with LigaMX readily available to them. That's a concern. There are lots of kids who play and coaches who coach, but that's not evidence of a market for MLS.

    So, again, tell us what makes you think "there would be a good market for it," and what makes you think "it is very possible" despite the obstacles? Because unless you can do that, all I'm left with is the virgin territory argument.
     
  18. Killersheep

    Killersheep Member

    Sep 26, 2010
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just out of curiosity why do think there would be a good market here for it?
     
  19. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    my answer is as simple as why not? Phoenix is a large metro with a large TV market which is what MLS is looking for as options.

    kenntomasch,

    you just showed that there is a significant soccer fan presence in Arizona by simply stating the factors you stated. All of these factors would lure my attention as a potential owner and would be my argument to try and gain support. Now, are there other soccer fans in other cities? yes. But the point is that most of the markets discussed such as Arizona, San Antonio, Atlanta, Carolina, St. Louis, Orlando, etc... could support a MLS franchise with the right infrastructure. I honestly never would have guessed that Salt Lake City would have been ideal market for MLS, but they have done excellent. Point being is that there are no absolute predictors for MLS success except having a market with a devoted ownership group.

    Now, there are obvious hurdles that would need to be overcome before it landed a franchise, but if i were Vergara and i was looking to relocate.... I'd look at Arizona as one my possible options to choose from.
     
  20. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wow. That's all you have, really? "Why not?" That's your idea of "show your work?"

    As if that's the only qualification.

    So the fact that I said.....and they haven't displayed an interest in MLS doesn't matter, in your mind? I never even said it was "significant." To this point, my feeling about the supposed soccer fan presence in Arizona is that they do everything soccer fans do except go to freaking games and watch them on TV. Other than that, yeah, they're completely great fans you'd want to court.

    And then he'd look at the negatives (as we have done, and as you have not) and not do it. Because, quite frankly, he'd be better off staying in LA than coming here.

    "Obvious hurdles." That's funny. Again:

    1 - A market 1/3 the size of the one he's currently in
    2 - with the only really viable stadium option one that is 2 1/2 times as big as the one he's currently in and
    3 - controlled by an NFL team that isn't interested in MLS
    4 - in a market that is demographically less-than-optimal (though more than it was, MLS' Hispanic fan base has grown over time)
    5 - in a state that is, culturally and politically, the most hostile to the demographic you'd be trying to court
    6 - in a market that already has teams in the NFL, NBA, NHL (for now) and MLB (not to mention the WNBA and AFL, and Spring Training) and, no, the fact they don't all play in the summer is not a plus
    7 - where you'd have to eventually build your own stadium, with no municipalities likely to pony up to get that done

    And that's just for starters. "Hurdles to overcome." Yeah, that's an understatement.

    Think it through, man. Think it through.
     
  21. Killersheep

    Killersheep Member

    Sep 26, 2010
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well we'll get a good idea this next USL PRO season when Phoenix FC joins the league. The owners group is expecting somewhere in the range of 6K-8K attendance a game, I'm thinking they'll be lucky to get 1K (even though I'm hoping they can pull it off somehow).
     
  22. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wait, I know we passed medical marijuana here, but I didn't think it was widely available yet.
     
  23. Killersheep

    Killersheep Member

    Sep 26, 2010
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Haha

    You gonna make it out to the 1st Friday meet n' greet?
     
  24. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't know. Maybe. USA at 5 and I have a thing I have to do at 7. Going to be in Tempe watching the USA game (somewhere) but then I have to be somewhere else at 7.
     
  25. Macsen

    Macsen Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 5, 2007
    Orlando
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That idea is more suggestive of LSD use than marijuana. But you never know.
     

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