Argentine NT News, Stats & Players Thread 2011-2012 (Part I) [R]

Arg10 · Jan 6, 2012

Re: Argentine NT News, Stats & Players Thread 2010-2011 Part III[R]

SupaMario said: ↑

Yeah but those runs will not happen in the qualifiers, if anything it may happen on a counter. I don't think he could get the ball in MF and just run freely.
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True, if he does do that, it'll be on a counter as he's always triple teamed. It was that kind of run that lead to the second goal versus Colombia where he beat Yepes and passed it to Higuain.

SupaMario said: ↑

Yeah I get it, I know what you mean, he can become very frustrating to watch. But who really plays on a consistent basis for us? Kun? Maybe Pipita time to time? Gago won me over in the Copa and plays well, I always liked Gago and think he can help us out a lot. Tino Costa is a player we may need and probably will see in that friendly(Well at least called up).
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While I do like Gago, he's not much of a passer. As for who is consistent, there haven't been much, but atleast the other players are (for the most part) consistent with their club teams as opposed to Banega.

SupaMario said: ↑

Yeah I know what you mean with Sabella. I am just to picture what he wants. Banega maybe immature but I do not think he is on the level of a Tevez. I don't think he will complain much or draw attention to the NT with his antics. He probably still has the best visionary we have that can slot in the MF. But again when he is on he is on, and when he is off, well you can not even find on the pitch. Gago is a bit more consistent in the last handful of games we have seen him. So not sure if we are going to have Sosa-Gago in the MF. Do you remember what Sabella did in the second half of the Colombia game? I am trying to see how the MF looked. I know he brought on Kun.
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I wouldn't say Banega is more of a Tevez, maybe more of an Ortega (if that makes sense). Both are very talented but it was the alcohol that got to Ortega and Banega seems to be headed down that direction.

The midfield in the second half against Colombia? Sosa, Brana and Mascherano. The four in the back were Clemente, Desabato, Fernandez and Zabaleta. So in the midfield, no real creator. Brana and Mascherano are "destroyers" while Sosa I find is always kind of just there.

SupaMario said: ↑

The more I think about this the more I get confused, with so many questions unanswered.
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Same. So many questions remain, but the win against Colombia should help the morale of the team.

SupaMario · Jan 6, 2012

Re: Argentine NT News, Stats & Players Thread 2010-2011 Part III[R]

Rattlehead said: ↑

Messi scores regularly on champions league, not just in Spanish league

also when he plays for Barca, it doesnt matter whether you close him down or now

FC Barcelona vs Vfb Stuttgart L.Messi 1st Goal [1080p HD] - YouTube
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Yeah, I don't support Barcelona so him playing that well may please you and those that support Barca but he can not play like that for us and that's what matters. As I said, I think he is finally gets it and helps us in other ways which is fine.

SupaMario · Jan 6, 2012

Re: Argentine NT News, Stats & Players Thread 2010-2011 Part III[R]

Arg10 said: ↑

True, if he does do that, it'll be on a counter as he's always triple teamed. It was that kind of run that lead to the second goal versus Colombia where he beat Yepes and passed it to Higuain.
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Yeah that's fine, if he has a moment to break free and attack that is all he needs to create something out of nothing. But lets face it, comic book defending is what he sees week after week.

We were effective on the counter, but Chile decided to play with fire and got burned. So I doubt many teams will try to go all out against us. There needs to be filters. Di Maria is playing well, as much as I hate his antics and probably not even like him any more(even though I watched him when he was Canalla and thought he would be something very special early on) he seems to play very well in Madrid. And he did well against Chile.

Arg10 said: ↑

While I do like Gago, he's not much of a passer. As for who is consistent, there haven't been much, but atleast the other players are (for the most part) consistent with their club teams as opposed to Banega.
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Really? You don't good is much of a passer, I think he is a good passer.

Arg10 said: ↑

I wouldn't say Banega is more of a Tevez, maybe more of an Ortega (if that makes sense). Both are very talented but it was the alcohol that got to Ortega and Banega seems to be headed down that direction.
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I don't think Banega will turn out to go down the road as Ortega. He made his mistakes young and lets see where he goes from it. So far so good this season. But he will be apart of the team, I highly doubt Sabella will leave him out there.

Arg10 said: ↑

The midfield in the second half against Colombia? Sosa, Brana and Mascherano. The four in the back were Clemente, Desabato, Fernandez and Zabaleta. So in the midfield, no real creator. Brana and Mascherano are "destroyers" while Sosa I find is always kind of just there.

Same. So many questions remain, but the win against Colombia should help the morale of the team.
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Oh okay, I was just trying to wrap my brain around who was playing in the second half, which we played much better, day and night as they say.

Arg10 · Jan 6, 2012

Re: Argentine NT News, Stats & Players Thread 2010-2011 Part III[R]

SupaMario said: ↑

Yeah that's fine, if he has a moment to break free and attack that is all he needs to create something out of nothing. But lets face it, comic book defending is what he sees week after week.

We were effective on the counter, but Chile decided to play with fire and got burned. So I doubt many teams will try to go all out against us. There needs to be filters. Di Maria is playing well, as much as I hate his antics and probably not even like him any more(even though I watched him when he was Canalla and thought he would be something very special early on) he seems to play very well in Madrid. And he did well against Chile
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True. Defenders in South America don't allow him any time on the ball, but I think he's realised that now.

As for Di Maria... I can't stand the kid... but he's a heck of a talent. He leads la liga in assists (14 I think?) and he's really been improving. At times he's even looked like a playmaker (or tried to take on the role of a playmaker) for them.

SupaMario said: ↑

Really? You don't good is much of a passer, I think he is a good passer.
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Let me correct that. He's a good passer, but his vision isn't as good as Banega's. He'll make a sweet pass every now and then, but he's not known for his passing.

SupaMario said: ↑

I don't think Banega will turn out to go down the road as Ortega. He made his mistakes young and lets see where he goes from it. So far so good this season. But he will be apart of the team, I highly doubt Sabella will leave him out there.
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I don't think Sabella will ignore him, but I just hope that when Banega is given the chance, he does well.

SupaMario said: ↑

Oh okay, I was just trying to wrap my brain around who was playing in the second half, which we played much better, day and night as they say.
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The Aguero substitution was what really changed the game in the second half. Because it relieved the pressure of Messi and well, we all know what happened. Messi grew in confidence and grew as the game went on.

Rattlehead · Jan 6, 2012

Re: Argentine NT News, Stats & Players Thread 2010-2011 Part III[R]

SupaMario said: ↑

Yeah, I don't support Barcelona so him playing that well may please you and those that support Barca but he can not play like that for us and that's what matters. As I said, I think he is finally gets it and helps us in other ways which is fine.
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so we should only care & post the stats of every players when they play for Argentina only?

every Argentina players that scores for their club dont matter right?

Pekerman · Jan 6, 2012

Re: Argentine NT News, Stats & Players Thread 2010-2011 Part III[R]

Rattlehead said: ↑

so we should only care & post the stats of every players when they play for Argentina only?

every Argentina players that scores for their club dont matter right?
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it's all been said before. I remember jumping and celebrating when Batistuta would score for Fiorentina, I don't see why it should be different for Messi or any other Argentine player and their respective club.

Looks like we are not supposed to enjoy our players in Europe because only the odd NT game matter, everything else is irrelevant.

Btw I don't think defending in la liga is as bas as people try to make it. The only difference is that the refs protect flair players like Messi. In SA we get stomped all over the pitch and not a single card is shown. Messi is not only triple teamed he is also hacked on every possession.

SupaMario · Jan 6, 2012

Re: Argentine NT News, Stats & Players Thread 2010-2011 Part III[R]

Rattlehead said: ↑

so we should only care & post the stats of every players when they play for Argentina only?

every Argentina players that scores for their club dont matter right?
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I will watch a Barcelona game because of Messi,Masche, I will watch a Roma game because of Gago and Lamela Nico, Gringo, I will watch a Madrid game because of Pipita and Di Maria and I can continue. With that being said, none of these clubs mean anything to me besides watching the game as a neutral and seeing progress from players. When I see them lighting it up for their clubs and when they come to the NT and they are half the player with the club teams then it bothers me, which I am sure it bothers a lot of people. So, again, I can care less what Messi does if it does not translate into the NT, and that could be said about a lot of the players. I don't know maybe when Messi shines for Barcelona and falters for the NT team, you may shrug your shoulders and say well "I still have him at Barcelona and he does fine there", not that easy when he is not apart of the club you are supporting. As soon as he goes back to his club side and bangs in a hat-trick all is fine at Barca.

I do not want this to lead into a "He is with Barcelona 10 months out of the year, he has Xavi and Iniesta" blah blah blah. I am tired of that, and I said, if he continues to play well and helps the team win, then that is fine, that is all that matters. He does not have to dribble through 10 players and score a hat-trick freely if he is helping the team win.

SupaMario · Jan 6, 2012

Re: Argentine NT News, Stats & Players Thread 2010-2011 Part III[R]

Pekerman said: ↑

it's all been said before. I remember jumping and celebrating when Batistuta would score for Fiorentina, I don't see why it should be different for Messi or any other Argentine player and their respective club.
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Hmm Bati was also scoring goals for the NT and winning trophies. Results is all that matters for the NT. Players will get love in time when they preform well, that is all. There names will be chanted if they do well.

Arg10 · Jan 6, 2012

Re: Argentine NT News, Stats & Players Thread 2010-2011 Part III[R]

SupaMario said: ↑

I will watch a Barcelona game because of Messi,Masche, I will watch a Roma game because of Gago and Lamela Nico, Gringo, I will watch a Madrid game because of Pipita and Di Maria and I can continue. With that being said, none of these clubs mean anything to me besides watching the game as a neutral and seeing progress from players. When I see them lighting it up for their clubs and when they come to the NT and they are half the player with the club teams then it bothers me, which I am sure it bothers a lot of people. So, again, I can care less what Messi does if it does not translate into the NT, and that could be said about a lot of the players. I don't know maybe when Messi shines for Barcelona and falters for the NT team, you may shrug your shoulders and say well "I still have him at Barcelona and he does fine there", not that easy when he is not apart of the club you are supporting. As soon as he goes back to his club side and bangs in a hat-trick all is fine at Barca.

I do not want this to lead into a "He is with Barcelona 10 months out of the year, he has Xavi and Iniesta" blah blah blah. I am tired of that, and I said, if he continues to play well and helps the team win, then that is fine, that is all that matters. He does not have to dribble through 10 players and score a hat-trick freely if he is helping the team win.
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I'm with you (though I support Barcelona and no, not because of Messi, but because of Riquelme). Anyways, I get what you mean. However, I've loved Argentina since I was 3-4 years old and for me, country over club anytime, no hesitation. As much as I dislike Di Maria, if he scores for Argentina, I'm happy. Why? Because he scored for Argentina.

The National Team is above any player, no matter what. If freaking Sosa ends up scoring a hattrick in his next game for Argentina, I'll celebrate the goals. As long as the team wins, I'm happy. Would I be even happier if Messi were to score for Argentina? Sure, I would be lying if I said no. But, as long as he contributes and continues contributing positively for the team as he has been doing for a while, he's good in my book. Despite Higuain playing for Real, I have a #9 Higuain Argentina jersey. My allegiance is dominated by my love for Argentina, not Barcelona. The second you put on that sky blue and white jersey, I'll be hoping you perform well for the team, no matter who you are or where you play.

Moishe · Jan 7, 2012

Re: Argentine NT News, Stats & Players Thread 2010-2011 Part III[R]

Leon12 said: ↑

Now, as regulars on this board will realise I have never, ever been a fan of Coco the Clown, but even I have to admit that he has been playing very well and at least deserves a call up to the NT squad, even if he is not a starter. We are not exactly blessed with top quality defenders so we should be picking those that are playing well. The other guy who has been outstanding playing in defence is the mighty Masch.
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The fact Coloccini hasn't been called once in the past two years is really puzzling considering how frigging consistent he's been. From playing in the EPL he knows how to bring and deal with the physical and the speed of play in the EPL has forced him to think and react quicker which is something we've lacked terribly of late. He was a victim of what many of our young players deal with. They get the call-ups when they are entirely too young and when that youth shows up we (coaches) move on and never look back. What the heck does he have to do to get called up? His game is now beyond solid, he's become a leader for his club, he's not a head case nor a party animal. I can't even think of one time in his entire career in which he's had a bust up with a coach or teammate. I'm far from a conspiracy guy (I'm not Cosmo) but it's just odd.

Now for Mascherano, if not for what is turning out to be a brutal hangover I would search my old posts in which I'd been banging the drum for him to move to a central defender role. As a DM his reading of the game, tackling and defending are awesome but once the time comes to contribute to the attack he's basically the same player he's been for some time now. One dimensional. He's still a young man but if that part of his game hasn't improved much by now then I don't really see it happening at all.

Arg10 said: ↑

I'm with you (though I support Barcelona and no, not because of Messi, but because of Riquelme). Anyways, I get what you mean. However, I've loved Argentina since I was 3-4 years old and for me, country over club anytime, no hesitation. As much as I dislike Di Maria, if he scores for Argentina, I'm happy. Why? Because he scored for Argentina.

The National Team is above any player, no matter what. If freaking Sosa ends up scoring a hattrick in his next game for Argentina, I'll celebrate the goals. As long as the team wins, I'm happy. Would I be even happier if Messi were to score for Argentina? Sure, I would be lying if I said no. But, as long as he contributes and continues contributing positively for the team as he has been doing for a while, he's good in my book. Despite Higuain playing for Real, I have a #9 Higuain Argentina jersey. My allegiance is dominated by my love for Argentina, not Barcelona. The second you put on that sky blue and white jersey, I'll be hoping you perform well for the team, no matter who you are or where you play.
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Roman's time at Barca was only memorable because of the politics he was a part of. I've never been much of a Van Gaal fan but I actually respect that he was honest about how he handled the situation. He made him a winger out of spite for the board and was never going to give him the chance he deserved. Rijkaard once he took over was faced with the quagmire of which creative midfield player to move out (Ronaldinho, Roman, Xavi, Iniesta and Deco). Roman's time at Villarreal pretty much speaks for itself.

Siempre_Albiceleste · Jan 7, 2012

Re: Argentine NT News, Stats & Players Thread 2010-2011 Part III[R]

Moishe said: ↑

The fact Coloccini hasn't been called once in the past two years is really puzzling considering how frigging consistent he's been. From playing in the EPL he knows how to bring and deal with the physical and the speed of play in the EPL has forced him to think and react quicker which is something we've lacked terribly of late. He was a victim of what many of our young players deal with. They get the call-ups when they are entirely too young and when that youth shows up we (coaches) move on and never look back. What the heck does he have to do to get called up? His game is now beyond solid, he's become a leader for his club, he's not a head case nor a party animal. I can't even think of one time in his entire career in which he's had a bust up with a coach or teammate. I'm far from a conspiracy guy (I'm not Cosmo) but it's just odd.

Now for Mascherano, if not for what is turning out to be a brutal hangover I would search my old posts in which I'd been banging the drum for him to move to a central defender role. As a DM his reading of the game, tackling and defending are awesome but once the time comes to contribute to the attack he's basically the same player he's been for some time now. One dimensional. He's still a young man but if that part of his game hasn't improved much by now then I don't really see it happening at all.

Roman's time at Barca was only memorable because of the politics he was a part of. I've never been much of a Van Gaal fan but I actually respect that he was honest about how he handled the situation. He made him a winger out of spite for the board and was never going to give him the chance he deserved. Rijkaard once he took over was faced with the quagmire of which creative midfield player to move out (Ronaldinho, Roman, Xavi, Iniesta and Deco). Roman's time at Villarreal pretty much speaks for itself.
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1. I agree with you about Coco. One thing that's been consistent about the leadership of this selection is that a lot of people who deserve shots at positions of glaring need are looked over or given limited chances and then blacklisted. And worse, players that are past their usefulness seem to stay on as staples and stick out as sore thumbs. It's the most puzzling of things.

2. I think part of the Mascherano playing so well as a CB, and he's had his bad moments there too by the way, is attributable to the well run and oiled machine that Barca is and who he's partnered with. That said, I give him all the credit in the world for stepping into a new role and doing it admirably. But the only thing that keeps me from waving the flag fully for putting him there for the NT, is who would be with him. As a DM, he's a bit of a gambler, and he naturally brings some of that to CB. That obviously brings in the increase risk of more yellow cards & reds from possible last man tackles, since he might be doing a whole lot of covering for whatever bafoon they partner with him. If the rest of the back line is sorted out and becomes disciplined and tactically sound, he would be a great asset there. But hell, it's not like it could become any worse by him being there. So carry on!

3. Roman's time at Barca was far from ideal, but he did have some good moments. Having the chance to watch a couple of those old matches, even out of position, his talent did shine through at times. But I'm not telling you anything you didn't already know. I get a bit mad thinking about what he might have done there under the tutelage of either Rijjkard or Pep, with an Etoo or a Messi at his disposal. But hey, it wasn't so bad at Villarreall.

Arg10 · Jan 8, 2012

Re: Argentine NT News, Stats & Players Thread 2010-2011 Part III[R]

Moishe said: ↑

Roman's time at Barca was only memorable because of the politics he was a part of. I've never been much of a Van Gaal fan but I actually respect that he was honest about how he handled the situation. He made him a winger out of spite for the board and was never going to give him the chance he deserved. Rijkaard once he took over was faced with the quagmire of which creative midfield player to move out (Ronaldinho, Roman, Xavi, Iniesta and Deco). Roman's time at Villarreal pretty much speaks for itself.
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Yeah, my love for Barcelona (through Riquelme) is kind of a long story.

Lisandro Lopez scored a hattrick in less than 35 minutes today for Lyon. The first goal... wow. The second goal is a goal poachers goal and the third, nice cut.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPj-1w8_L_o"]L'OL en 32e de finale - Coupe de France 2011-2012 - YouTube[/ame]

Monzon, Pastore, Higuain, Aguero, Lisandro (three goals), Diego Milito (two goals), Gutierrez, Ruben and Gonzalo Rodriguez all scored this weekend.

Leon12 · Jan 9, 2012

Re: Argentine NT News, Stats & Players Thread 2010-2011 Part III[R]

Aguero was outstanding for Man City, they were down to 10 men and ended up losing the game but he filled the role of two players.

SupaMario · Jan 9, 2012

Re: Argentine NT News, Stats & Players Thread 2010-2011 Part III[R]

Sabella: You can’t say no to this job

http://www.fifa.com/newscentre/news/newsid=1565467.html

Leon12 · Jan 9, 2012

Re: Argentine NT News, Stats & Players Thread 2010-2011 Part III[R]

The Age of Messi:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jan/08/lionel-messi-pele-maradona?newsfeed=true

Arg10 · Jan 9, 2012

Re: Argentine NT News, Stats & Players Thread 2010-2011 Part III[R]

They grow up so fast. Number 3 bitches!

SupaMario · Jan 9, 2012

Re: Argentine NT News, Stats & Players Thread 2010-2011 Part III[R]

Arg10 said: ↑

They grow up so fast. Number 3 bitches!

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Is he wearing a smoking jacket? Smh. lol. No surprise here, good job Lio. I would say he would win a 4th in a row; however not sure if Barcelona will win La Liga. CL will decide it, as well as who wins the Euros. So who knows.

BTW is there a place where we can see the vote count?

Oh, Ronaldo did not even attend? lol.

xdryza · Jan 9, 2012

Re: Argentine NT News, Stats & Players Thread 2010-2011 Part III[R]

Arg10 said: ↑

They grow up so fast. Number 3 bitches!

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Congrats to Leo, que orgullo! It almost feels like yesterday when I watched him play in the Sub-20 World Cup. All these awards and he's still very humble. Sadly, they're still non-believers out there.

Borussia · Jan 9, 2012

Re: Argentine NT News, Stats & Players Thread 2010-2011 Part III[R]

Another impressive award for Leo! Felicitaciones.

Be very proud of this guy.

Pipiolo · Jan 9, 2012

Re: Argentine NT News, Stats & Players Thread 2010-2011 Part III[R]

Arg10 said: ↑

They grow up so fast. Number 3 bitches!

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Amazing, now equals Platini as the only one to win three consecutive Balon D'Ors (but at least one of Platini's would have gone to Zico).

xdryza · Jan 9, 2012

Re: Argentine NT News, Stats & Players Thread 2010-2011 Part III[R]

This should of been his 4th, in my opinion. Messi was way better than Ronaldo in 2008.

SupaMario · Jan 9, 2012

Re: Argentine NT News, Stats & Players Thread 2010-2011 Part III[R]

Pipiolo said: ↑

Amazing, now equals Platini as the only one to win three consecutive Balon D'Ors (but at least one of Platini's would have gone to Zico).
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Well, the two awards are now merged, the FIFA World Player of the Year and FIFA Ballon d'or were different awards. The FIFA award came in in the early 90's. I remember one year where Nedved won the Ballon d'or and I believe it was Zidane who won the FIFA World.

But Messi does have 1 Ballon d'or, 1 FIFA World Player of the Year, and now 2 FIFA Ballon d'or's. They are calling it three which is basically the same thing since FIFA hosts the gala now.

Here is the voting if anybody wants to see it.

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/clas..._countries.pdf

Rattlehead · Jan 9, 2012

Re: Argentine NT News, Stats & Players Thread 2010-2011 Part III[R]

I love that the Original Ronaldo handed the thropy to Messi

That bootleg Ronaldo and Mourinho didnt even attend, I guess that shows who's the twat

I think he can live with his copa del rey thropy

and Kaka looks like one hit wonder on the list

SupaMario · Jan 9, 2012

Re: Argentine NT News, Stats & Players Thread 2010-2011 Part III[R]

Rattlehead said: ↑

I love that the Original Ronaldo handed the thropy to Messi

That bootleg Ronaldo and Mourinho didnt even attend, I guess that shows who's the twat

I think he can live with his copa del rey thropy

and Kaka looks like one hit wonder on the list

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I was wondering why they weren't there, probably their excuse was they have a game on Tuesday.

Rattlehead · Jan 10, 2012

Re: Argentine NT News, Stats & Players Thread 2010-2011 Part III[R]

"Critics have always questioned whether players like Pele from the 50s could play today," said Ferguson.

"The answer to that is great players would play in any generation. Lionel Messi could play in the 1950s and the present day, as could Di Stefano, Pele, Maradona, Cruyff because they are all great players.

"Lionel Messi without question fits into that category."

Sir Alex Ferguson

http://www.espnstar.com/football/news/detail/item733693/Ferguson:-Messi-is-a-legend/