Argentine NT: News, Stats & Players [R]

Yea although he did say 2022 would be his last WC, then he played and won CA 2024, then he's still here and still delivers.

In 2023 some of us here already discussing about post Messi era which suppose to begin after 2024 tourney ...

 

Takeaways from last night:
We’re now a veteran team, playing with confidence, and I really like that we don’t force our attacks.

What we’re lacking:

Pace in attack: Against defensive-minded teams like Venezuela, our passing ability is usually enough. But against stronger opponents, we’ll need more speed, both defensively and offensively. Right now, too many of our players have similar profiles. In 2022, we had pace from players like Fideo, which added an extra dimension.

Fresh legs and youth: I’m still a bit disappointed that Scaloni hasn’t given more youngsters opportunities in key positions. For the 2026 World Cup, we’ll need players with the energy and stamina to run, press, and track back. At the moment, it feels like we’re relying too heavily on the same core group from 2022, and that’s a concern moving forward. We have basically secured the WC, so this games should be oppertunity for the youngsters to get some minutes. I still want Alan Varela to get debut.

 

I think the Ecuador match is going to feel like a completely different story compared to last night's game. And that’s exactly what makes it fascinating. Scaloni isn’t just coaching, he’s playing chess, LA SCALONETA!!. Just because something didn’t quite click in last night's game, it doesn’t mean Scaloni wanted to run out the same combination of players again. He's coaching and trying different tactics, and I love it!

Scaloni can’t give every rising talent or a new seasoned veteran “finding his groove” all a shot at once. Mastantuono got his chance with one version of the lineup line up. And now, I think we’ll probably see Paz get his shot alongside a different group of starters who didn’t feature. Probably see Mac starting in a central midfielder creator type since we won't see Messi in that game. That in itself will be worth the watch, different puzzle pieces, same Scaloni brain teasing out how they fit. He's by far the BEST FCKNG INTERNATIONAL TEAM MANAGER IN THE WORLD!

The last rounds of qualifiers are about Scaloni running his lab experiments in real time. Maestro.

For me, the fun part is not just the goals, the particular players per se, or even the results. It’s seeing how Scaloni thinks. The guy has turned the national team into a living, breathing experiment in balance, depth, and timing.

No, I don't think Messi is replaceable, but to quote Billy Beane "We can't replace him, but we can recreate him in the aggregate" - and I think that's Scaloni's ultimate goal through out all of this, figuring out a way to keep feeding the machine.

 

Thank you for taking the time to write this, so I didn't have to. This is the best selection in the world, and for quite a while now. The team is settled, and it's being MANAGED by someone who is thinking. There is no sense in breathlessly x-raying the team after every match, every half, every 10 minutes of play, when there is something that is working and has been working.
Scaloni has done plenty of tinkering with the team, but calling for wholesale changes is not the way to manage teams at this level. This means that not everyone's favorite will be included, even though they might be deserving. It's not just about ability. This success has been in large part due to chemistry, and that is a fickle thing.
I find it perplexing that people want to rush out elements that have been crucial to Scaloni's plans and that he trusts: RDP, Paredes, Otamendi, and to a lesser level, guys like Nico G and Simeone, to name a few. Or even to want Messi to leave or to take a backseat (super sub). Messi will get to leave on his own terms. His history and current play justify that. There is no sense in even talking about it, because that's just the way it will be.
Scaloni's plans will not change, unless injuries force it. And I think he's earned the benefit of the doubt that he will be able to adapt. Will it always work out? Obviously not. But let's not lose appreciation for how unreal this extended period of excellence has been.

 

That’s a great point about Scaloni “playing chess. He’s not just rolling out lineups for the sake of it, he’s testing combinations and building versatility. And honestly, that’s what separates him from a lot of coaches who ride one golden generation until the wheels fall off.

If you look at Spain after 2012, they’re the perfect example of what not to do:

• They stuck with an aging core for too long.
  
  
• Their system became predictable, and opponents had figured out how to neutralize tiki-taka.
  
  
• The transition to younger talent was slow and messy, and by the time they tried to refresh, it was already too late.

Scaloni seems to be aware of avoiding that trap. He keeps the veteran backbone for stability but sprinkles in youth, even if it’s gradual, to see who can handle the shirt i.e Garnacho. He’s making sure that when Messi, RDP or Otamendi aren’t there, the system doesn’t collapse. That’s exactly the kind of long term planning Spain lacked.

I get what you’re saying, but for me the issue is that we haven’t integrated enough new players into the core. In four years, only one has really broken into the starting XI from 2022, and that’s not enough if we want to seriously compete in 2026. We’ll still be strong, but we should have given more players real chances over this cycle instead of relying so heavily on the same group.

 

Do keep in mind that if you take out the outliers of Messi, Otamendi, and Di Maria (already departed), 2022's team was a relatively young squad, with the likes of Enzo, Mac, and Julian just breaking into the team. We can gripe that Otamendi maybe shouldn't figure in the lineup anymore, but you have his replacements already integrated into the team. The glaring flaws are simply at LB and RB, where we have only competent/serviceable options. Other than that, there is a nice balance of youth and experience in the squad. The time of the teenagers is coming.

 

I agree the 2022 squad was younger than people sometimes remember, with Enzo, Mac, and Julián just starting out. But that’s exactly my point, since then, not many others have really broken through in the same way. The core is still basically the same, and while that’s not a bad thing short term, I’d like to see more players seriously pushing for starting spots by now. We dont have anyone pushing for the full backs, the midfield. Almada is the only kid that has pushed through and even he was in 2022. Do we even have a pacy winger who's good at 1vs 1? Maybe a direct winger?

 

In regards to Otamendi he isnt an actual starter if the team is healthy. We saw that last Copa with Martinez+Romero being the out an out starters.

Once he's back all will be well. I do fear if he's not healthy for the tournament but with the guys coming up and Otamendi still serviceable in short bursts the NT will be ok.

 

we've been using medina and balderdi who have been just fine
lisandro will be back. Ottamendi only is being put on because of injuries and this was his last game in argentina

 

Majority of Spain squad were still in their 20s in 2012 so there shouldnt be an "aging" excuse. Alba, Silva, Busquet, Pique, Ramos, Torres , Pedro, Fabrebas , Navas were between 24-28, Iniesta was still 29, Casillas was 31 which is prime age of GK. So they shouldnt suddenly weakened by age, but we saw how they fell apart since Confederation final in 2013 and continues to underperform at subsequent WC.


Mind you the Barcelona guys won treble in 2015. Spain just dont have winning tradition WC. Thats the simple fact. They passed QF just once in about 70 years.

 

Spain was kind of a one trick pony and even then they barely scraped it out. Argentina can win pretty or ugly, so that helps a lot.

 

We do in Soule, Scaloni is just not calling him up for whatever reason.

 

Xavi was the system for Spain. It's not a coincidence that once Xavi started to age, both the quality of Spain team and Barcelona team from 2013 - 2020 has decreased.

Barcelona was incredible fortunate that they had MSN upfront but that system relied on the individual quality of the players rather than having a system in place.

Fortunately for us, Scaloni already devised a system that doesn't rely on Messi and whoever we plug in to the team will most likely do a decent job.

 

MSN aside, I do think Lucho's a great manager. Even in Euro 2021, they're the only team that actually outplayed Italy. He just lost control of the dressing room after 2 seasons. Too many big egos who always looked angry when they're being benched and subbed off.

Spain failed to evolve after their initial championship run in 2008-2012, but off course they do have a revival in recent time but I'd argue having an X factor like Yamal help big time. Spain does have biggest winning tradition in Euro, much like Argentina in CA.

As for Scaloni, we've been winning almost everytime when Messi wasnt there so its obvious he's more or less has prepared for post-Messi era. We still need to find a better RB and LB since Licha has long history with injury and Molina is often hit & miss. The fact that now Messi has become part of his system rather than being key to the system is a testament of Scaloni's coaching ability.

 

I've been saying it all along. Not sure what some people are watching that they actually think the likes of RDP & Paredes shouldnt be in the squad. I think its all comes down to the fact that no team in modern WC trophy era has ever manage to defend the title. We saw teams like Germany, Spain, Italy fell so hard after winning the WC and we have a paranoia that it might happen to us if we dont replace the guys who played in previous WC.

 

He will get his time im certain. Hell if Roma wasn't a dumpster fire for half the season until l Claudio came in then I think we wouldnt even be having this convo imo.

The thing is Scaloni can only play 11 players. WE are mad Paz didnt get a start, Soule didnt get a call up before that it was Varela, Scaloni has earned tremendous trust and when the time is right everyone will get their shot. Just too many players to choose from which again is a great problem to have even if our fav guy isnt quite there yet. I'm just enjoying this insane run with so much talent coming up. Sure we talk about SOule, Paz, Mastatuono and Echeverri for good reason but man its insane the amount of other players that dont get a peep yet but will soon. Montoro , Meza, Roberto, Martis, Parmo, Mattar, Anselmino and on and on.

 

Its wild that they have passed QF just once in 70 years. We shall see though, I just think we should have some youth in our squad. Looking at teams like France, Spain, Portugal. They have younger and fresh blood in their squad. We have almost a average age of 28 (27, 7) which is fine. Germany's average is the oldest out of the top teams with 28.

 

It should be the right combination of seniors and young players (which what we did in 2022). Mac, Enzo and Julian proved to be revelation. Relying almost entirely on young squad wouldnt be ideal either. When Italy won WC 2006, their main forward Inzaghi was 32, their defenders Cannavaro and Materazzi were 32. Klose was 36 in WC 2014. Yet, some people seems to freak out that RDP and Paredes are still in the squad lol. I can understand Otamendi, but as already been mentioned, he aint starting if wasnt Lisandro's injury.

I'm fairly certain Paz will make it to the WC. You could tell that his game is alot more mature than most players of his age and physically stronger aswell.

As for Spain, obviously cant write any strong team out. What I'm trying to say is, you see all these pundits/media putting Spain and England (even Portugal!) in the forefront to win the WC everytime while thinking Argentina only have Messi + few decent players. Yet we're in two of the last 3 WC finals and almost tied France in 2018.

 

I got you. I had no clue that so many straight passes led to this goal. You see, kids, it's okay to pass laterally and backwards sometimes.

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Honestly, I think Scaloni should have called Soule up way sooner when he was at Frosinone and should have included him in the Copa 2024. We all knew Di Maria was going to retire after the tournament and this team currently really needs a dribbler in the wide areas. We have many players who want the ball at their feet and play pass and move, which is great but that cannot be the only sole method of attack.

Colombia in June 2025 and Venezuela now were happy to keep a narrow formation because they knew that we would only attack through that method. Could work against teams who likes to attack, but beating teams like this needs something different. Oct 2025 friendlies will tell us a lot of who Scaloni will pick for the WC26.

Speaking of dribbling in the wide areas, still not convinced of Thiago Alamada as our solution to the LW. Thiago Fernandez will be going to Villareal this winter so we'll see how he comes out. Maybe Garnacho will step it up at Chelsea this season.

Very excited to see the crop of players that you mentioned and I think the post-Messi era will be in good hands assuming if Scaloni leaves after the WC26 and whoever takes charge of the national team share the same philosophy as La Scaloneta

 

I've been thinking about this post, but for now, we don't have any talent or the talent is still too raw for the LB/RB position.

LB:
- Soler - Still raw, not getting game time at Bournemouth
- Barco - His best position is at the LCM and he's playing that position at Strasbourg

Medina is still the backup option for LB, but I wouldn't be surprised if Acuna comes back for the WC26, but would much rather have Ortega who is in his prime and be playing Champions League football this season. Licha is another option for the backup option for LB.

RB:
- Giay: Still raw, shown his level at the Club World Cup.
- Maffeo: I think he's fine, but I guess Scaloni doesn't like what he sees to which I can agree with

Potentially Kevin MacAllister (the brother of Alexis MacAllister) can play as a RB and will be playing Champions League football this season against some of the best teams in the world. Will be interesting to see how he does. Best option is that Molina leaves Atletico and to a club where he is given confidence and game time. We need the WC22 Molina back.

CM:
I like RDP but his touch and passes are too inconsistent for my liking. I would definitely still keep him in the squad and wouldn't lose sleep if RDP is still a starter, but would rather have Equi in his spot.

Main point is that I just don't see someone really pushing hard in the positions (except for Equi) that I mentioned to change Scaloni's mind and I do see his POV for this. Hopefully Ortega (LB), Kevin (RB) and Equi (CM) will give a good showing in the Champions League to give Scaloni more thoughts. Also Molina needs to get out of Atletico asap.

 

It's actually over guys for qualifiers, I started the year messi started on these boards. What a journey

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I was little bit freaked out to be honest about RDP, not so much about Paredes because he brings another something else to our team. RDP had a from dip a while back, but I get what he brings to the table. On a good day he's a good player on the pitch and other times he just gives the ball away too much. He is an important player off the pitch as well and in dressing room.

Nico Paz, i have dont seem much of him, he seems to thrive further up the pitch it seems, looks more of a CAM than a winger.

 

I really appreciate this kind of player analysis. It’s important to discuss these topics regardless of how well we’re performing. As you mentioned, there aren’t many players who can realistically take spots away from Molina, RDP, and others. Personally, I feel more confident about our left side than our right. The right flank is our weakest area with Molina, whose form has dipped since the World Cup.

Simeone has been tried there, and Scaloni has used him as a right back with some success, but we still need a proper RB for that position. Foyth gets pushed out wide, but at this stage he’s really a center back.

What this team is lacking is a true direct winger, someone who can take on defenders, create space, and stretch the game, much like Fideo used to do. We need that injection of pace and directness, especially against teams that can sit back and protect a 1–0 lead. Nico G is the closest we have to that profile right now, but I still think we need one more option. The youngster from Real Madrid could eventually grow into that role.

 

Outside ADM and prime Acuna, we never really have an attacking winger or a wing back who could threat opponents by making diagonal run. Then again, how many times the national team actually rely on that kind of run to create chances?

The only notable dribble from the wing that led into a goal would be ADM in WC final where he blew pass Dembele and Acuna against Netherlands.

Argentina has always been known for the short passing play, and that's what Nico and Almada did few days ago a simple short pass from the left and right . Molina assisted Mac's goal against Poland also from a low pass. The team also able to open up space and scored alot from a direct throughball setup by the likes of Messi, Enzo, Almada, Mac, RDP, Gio & Paredes.

It should be noted that in last 3 major tournaments plus Finalissima plus qualifier, the 2-0 loss to Uruguay has been the only game which we failed to score. So Scaloni simply doesnt think the lack of RB/LB and attacking wingers as a big issue.

I find it interesting that statistically our defence is second best to Ecuador in this qualifier. They conceided just 5 goals in 17 games, so it should be interesting how our attack would fare in a few days. However Ecuador scored less goal than bottom teams like Bolivia and Venezuela.