Argentine NT News, Stats, Players 2010-2011 [R]

It's done in games where a B team is playing in a meaningless game, because Messi wants to play, and Guardiola wants the fans to get their money's worth.
Not in meaningful games like you're suggesting for Argentina. C'mon.

 

Remember at the beginning of qualifiers when it was Riquelme saving the team by scoring FK's. The rest of the team was bland as was the play and if not for Roman the team would been screwed from the start.

This was already covered.

Of ourse you'll never blame Diego for anything . Even if Veron played he's not a defensive player and that's was the main problem.

Messi played almost a ridiculous amount of games las season. Out of the 35 La Liga games he only came off the bench 5 times, in the CL in 11 matches 0 he came off the bench.

I think you need to stop telling me what to do. You have zero authority.

Of course it's always something, some rumor, some conspiracy. Of course the Spain players all waned to lose on purpose because of some conspiracy by Grondona. .

He scored a goal in a final against a team he has zero connection with. If it would have been against Newell's that's differejt.

Bull shit, Diego can kill someone and you would still find a way to defend him.

I do but constantly you think you're the voice of every hincha. You've even argued with bsas about it.

Just because the players are underperforming it doesn't mean they aren't world class. BUt when everyone of them is killing for their club and they stink with La Seleccion there is clearly someting wrong.

You're right what happened after is that the team won the Olympics. The Mexico game was 4/7/08.

Abosolutely not. Barca's front line constantly changes between positions. Messi would be on the right Ibra in the middle, then Ibra would move to the left and Messi to the middle. At the end Ibra was benched and Messi played entirely as a CF.

Of course it's probably some conspiracy like everything to you. Otamendi was young and inexperienced in big tournaments with the NT.

 

What a stupid comment. I've been on this site since 2004 when almost no one knew of Messi. I'm just looking for consistency in the criticism of the players. NYC needs to remind us in every thread he doesn't like Messi. Ok we get it.

Then I claim Tevez cost the team even more points with his stupidity in qualifiers and NYC justifies it by saying Tevez has proven himself because he won the Olympics. Ehh, so did Messi. Inconsistency.

 

I wasn't talking about you at all. I understand what you are saying, and I don't think Messi should be benched, and even if I did it wouldn't matter because Batista is trying to build the team around him. That doesn't mean I don't feel we need to separate what he does for Barca and what he does for the seleccion. i took my hat off to messi for that goal against brazil, but it was only a friendly...

So far Messi has only given us the Olympics and I have my own rant on that tournament and Batista and his policies in general as he is turning me off to the seleccion

 

I'm not an "equipo que gana no se toca" guy but I do understand the idea completely. I'm not against it, but I'm also not for it. I just want the best team on the field the day of.

I'm the opposite. I fell in love with the idea of Diego bringing us to the height of glory again. It was a win win for Argentina. It still hurts. Pekerman is great and his U20 teams are probably the best U20 teams ever to play but I just wasn't as attached with that team as I was with this one.

Now we are grooving!!!!

Grooving again!!!

Maybe my opinion of benching Messi is extreme but it seems like its the only thing that hasnt been tried. Another reason is that we seem to have an overbundance of 10's playing in Brazil and PLAYING WELL.

It would seem that its the opportunity to move certain pieces around and finally create that killer midfield that we have been missing for a LONG TIME!

 

A couple of things:

• You are making this personal, I'm not.
• If you want this to be personal then I suggest that we don't talk about this anymore as this really isn't what I'm looking for.

I'm here to talk about the Argentine NT. I have my opinion about Messi and that's that. You have yours. I'm just saying my peace but apparently you have a problem with that.

I'm not interested in pro Barcelona bullshit. I just want my Argentina to benefit from Messi being Argentine. So far we haven't.

 

So because you've been here longer than most, somehow you are entitled to pass along your OPINION as fact? Come on, now, thats not how it works. We all are here sharing our opinions nothing more. NO OF US possess the truth. None of us are/were there in training, qualifying or the World Cup.

If you consider my rants and raves about Messi akin to something being rammed down your throat then I suggest you use the ignore feature.

 

Seriously, Cosmos, that's what you're going with? This just screams that you do not in fact follow Barcelona at all. Which in turn may explain why it is you refuse to understand why he excels in Spain and is not as good for Argentina. It is never in Pep's plans to use Messi as a sub unless it's a meaningless game in which he wants to rest him and still give him a few minutes to stay fresh. The very idea that Pep uses as a sub, therefore that should be tried in the NT is simply revolting. If Batista (or any other coach) tries that, they would be the laughing stock of the coaching world.

Yup. That's about on par with other conspiracy theories. I'm assuming you have some factual basis for this.

That line of thought didn't make sense when this first happened. I'm afraid it doesn't make any more sense now.

Whether you realize it or not, you often speak AS IF you speak for EVERY fan.

World class players + horrendous coaching tactics = What happened at the WC. You can beat the lesser teams but a half way decent German side tears you to shambles.

C'mon now, Cosmos. Everyone knows that as long as Basile was coach, his team would always be centered around Roman. Basile never made an effort to build the team around Messi...Nor should he have. The Messi of then simply was too raw. His game had some very obvious flaws that made it not quite fully gel with Roman. Still, he did have some good times with him.

Wait, you actually think Diego made mistakes???

 

I don't mean to offend anyone or upset any posters on this board, but some of the stuff being written on here is embarassing, I mean to complain about Messi because he celebrated scoring a goal against an Argentine club side, really, is this stuff for real or is it being typed by a 5 year old, in which case please accept my apologies. But for an adult to write something like that is incredible. Also to imply that Pep uses Messi as a sub, which means that Argentina should also use him as a sub, I mean WHAT

 

its still fun to read those poster stupidity lol

 

That's true.

 

Sometimes you guy are such complete absolutists. While I do think that Messi could be used as a sub I'm not saying that's the ONLY way to employ him. Sometimes he could be a starter other times he could be a sub. What's so difficult in understanding that?

In 2001, when Ortega was at the top of his game with La Seleccion this was also brought forward. Ortega had a habit of always adding an extra "gambeta" and losing the ball. It was suggested that bringing him in during the 2nd half with tired defenses would help our cause. I don't believe that it was actually tired but the suggestion was there.

Well considering all thats is/was in the news regarding the QATAR bid, I would say that there is ALOT to go on. From Grondona pocketing 80 million to some Qatari group giving Barcelona money for the shirt sponsorship to Man City offering 100 million to Iniesta. Remember Guardiola was also part of the Qatari bid. It's all there.

Has his image improved in Argentina? Slightly yes. At the time that it occured last year, was Messi going thru an image problem? Hell Yeah! Did this help his imagine, hell no. But now it's water under the bridge.

Looking at it from a business POV, his image is very important. Listen, it's just my opinion nothing more, man. Just sharing thoughts with everyone. I'm not looking to debate every single point, we aren't running for the presidency.

C'mon! Every fan? But even still I respect everyones opinion on here and if this is the case I'LL SEND EVERYONE AN APOLOGY for doing this. Like I said before I'm here to share my thoughts and opinions. Likewise I like to read others opinions and thoughts as well. No one here knows the truth more so than what they can read in a newspaper or online, or even hear on a TV show.

Again, I APOLOGIZE TO EVERYONE if I come across this way. If you knew me in person you would realize that this isn't the case at all.

Argentina had an impressive run in the WC. Granted that the Germans killed us when it mattered most but we still beat the teams we faced and beat them well. Even in the match against Mexico where we had some trouble in the last 20 minutes, we still beat them in regulation time and by two goals. It wasn't like in WC 06 or Confed Cup 05.

Either way its over and its been hashed over and over.

Too many egos, too many interests and too little desire to play the game for the win, for the fan.

If you ask me, I would love to see the best Riquelme and the best Messi playing the game together, along with Tevez, Masche and the rest of the crew. Unfortunately, something is occuring behind the scenes that is causing separation between all the parties involved.

At the end of the day, I want what everyone else on here wants, TO WIN.


Wait, you actually think Diego made mistakes???[/QUOTE]

 

http://edant.ole.com.ar/notas/2009/12/20/futbolinternacional/02104606.html

use google to translate.


Also to say that Messi wasn't used as a sub by Guardiola and even before that by Rijkaard is very disingenuous. It has been part of his tactics and while it's not his main one, it has been employed several times. The kid likes to play all the time and even when they believe he shouldn't he gets thrown in there as a sub in the 2nd half. It's worked and worked very well.

 

Messi was still a kid under Rijkaard and his position was covered by Guily...he still managed to burst in the starting lineup. The only reason he wasn't started every game was because of injury worries.

I would much rather Messi plays the full 90 minutes and bring on Lavezzi, Aguero or Tevez in the second half.

 

We've tried this.

The main question should be: Has it worked?

 

You've just got your facts wrong, it's not like people know you're right and are faking another view.

Messi was a sub when he was a sub, he didn't come out of the youth team and immediately take the position for himself. Same as with Argentina, he was a sub when he was just getting started.

Under Guardiola, I'd be interested in one single game where Messi was used as a sub tactically, ie when he wasn't being rested for medical reasons or to give a backup some minutes. It just doesn't make any sense. He was used as a sub today, and so was David Villa, and the second string goalkeeper played. Was this a strategy to win the game? Of course not. If Messi doesn't fit with the Argentine team, he's not going to fit any better as a sub. You should start a campaign to drop him from the team altogether. Maybe try him as the manager.

 

I don't really think we have. I mean Maradona's plan B was to bring Palermo or Bolatti

Lavezzi run havoc against brazil./

 

Your subs win you championships - Guardiola

I've always said this and I also said it prior to the World Cup with regards to Argentina.

http://www.sport.es/default.asp?idpublicacio_PK=44&idnoticia_PK=733130&idioma=CAS

 

And he was talking about Messi. lol. I tell you what, if what you're saying has anything to it, I say your only chance to implement your plan to bench Messi is to hire Guardiola.

 

Maybe certain posters should review their feelings about what a sub means. It seems like everyone has a negative view about it. Like somehow being a sub is a bad thing or a punishment.

Personally I see it has another way to employ the arms that you have at your disposition. It's not about your status or how much you are liked. Henry was a sub many times and at other times he was a starter. Same with Ibrahimović.

 

This thing has run it's course and it was just going in circles. Open up a new one if you guys like but let's just get away from this.