ARGENTINA vs. España, pre & post game Comments

aerez · Oct 11, 2006

Re: ARGENTINA vs. españa, pre game Comments

Leon12 said:

No Aimar, I'm sorry but he has dissapointed to often. Maxi has to be in midfield, he is one of the very best goal scoring midfielders in the world. The big problem today was the total lack of any presence in central midfield, it was just non-existent.
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Actually I agree, Maxi is a great player. In fact he's much better than Aimar.
I just feel sorry for Aimar and want to give him a few chances, I think Aimar is very rusty. He should start at least 6 games, we already lost the two biggest ones, why not give it a shot. They start Samosa.

The thing that bothers me about Maxi is he seems to hog the ball alot which makes him get injured. He has the same problem when playing with Athletico.

Argentina needs more big, strong guys up front. Maxi and Bilos are definately something in that critieria.

Blue-and-White · Oct 11, 2006

Re: ARGENTINA vs. españa, pre game Comments

I blame everyone...especially the midfield. Im jsut saying if Messi was more himself...if Aimar or Insua actually made a nice pass, or if Lucho wasnt invisible, and Maxi wasnt injured...we might have seen better Argentine football as we know it. And if Basile wasnt as dumb as Pekerman. Messi is not a striker!!!!!!

nyosi · Oct 11, 2006

Re: ARGENTINA vs. españa, pre game Comments

Messi needs to learn to do the simple things sometimes.I find that too often he tries to run with the ball when a pass would be better.Good thing he's still young though.I like Bilos,he plays with a lot of heart.Is he naturally a winger?

maxpepper · Oct 11, 2006

Re: ARGENTINA vs. españa, pre game Comments

---------pato
zanetti-ayala-heinze-sorin
-------simeone
veron-----------gallardo
--------riquelme
--crespo-------palermo

no?

Blue-and-White · Oct 11, 2006

Re: ARGENTINA vs. españa, pre game Comments

a lot of them are too old for 2010...but still no..

------Ustari
Zabaleta-Milito-Ferrari-Heinze
------Mascherano
Messi---Aimar?Riquelme--Maxi
-----Saviola----Crespo(too old, Tevez)

El viejo Matias · Oct 11, 2006

Re: ARGENTINA vs. españa, pre game Comments

Ha, ha nice try there with that line-up

My opinion is this should be given a shot.

------------------------------ Ustari ---------------------------

--------Gonzo------------Milito---------------Heinze--------------

-------------------Gago-----------Mascherano------------------

----Maxi---------------------------------------------Bilos-----

------------------------Riquelme-----------------------

---------------------------------------------Tevez---------

----------------------Cavenaghi-----------------------------

maxpepper · Oct 11, 2006

Re: ARGENTINA vs. españa, pre game Comments

I was joking......
maybe it's time to lose our beloved enganche and become another 442 team

1.- can gonzo play there?
2.- can cavenaghi be crespo's replacement?
3.- ppl in argentina will commit mass suicide if messi and aguero dont play

other than that, i really like your lineup matias

cordobesenUS · Oct 11, 2006

Re: ARGENTINA vs. españa, pre game Comments

Leon12 said:

People should keep things in perspective, the way I see it this is just the start of a project whose ultimate aim is 2010.

I think the next friendly game is against Italy and the players need to play that like a proper match, Heinze/Crespo/Cambiasso (fitness permitting) should be back in the squad and Gago should be in and D. Milito or Palacio.
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against italy? wow this tour will be remembered as the ass kicking tour, play against the top ten teams in the world with no prior preparation and get our asses served.., whose brilliant idea was it to play against this teams, this early? ohh yeah grondona sold our asses to the russians, I remember now, good thing there are no consequences, will see in the next copa america what happens, hopefully basile can turn this shit around because 0 and 2 record is not exactly measuring up to expectations....normally arg should have started playing some easy rivals to get the thing going, not brazil, how stupid was that. Once your team is cemented than you play brazil and the others.

Castroman · Oct 11, 2006

Re: ARGENTINA vs. españa, pre game Comments

Guys calm down its the coaches second game and he's still giving chances and testing players!

yeah we lost a friendly so what? the players werent a good combination at all! very slow tempo! caused us a lot, Tevez not in his form anymore at all, Messi play him midfield, Somoza, Lucho, Insua, Zabaleta not NT material!

we need Ferrari, Gago, Belluschi, Moralez, Higuain, Fernandez, Botinelli where are these guys? we want Tango style of football not european! Aimar's time is almost over just like Riquelme bring in some new guys! give them some chances play Messi in that role!

Illrod3 · Oct 11, 2006

Re: ARGENTINA vs. españa, pre game Comments

Guys calm down its the coaches second game and he's still giving chances and testing players!

yeah we lost a friendly so what? the players werent a good combination at all! very slow tempo! caused us a lot, Tevez not in his form anymore at all, Messi play him midfield, Somoza, Lucho, Insua, Zabaleta not NT material!

we need Ferrari, Gago, Belluschi, Moralez, Higuain, Fernandez, Botinelli where are these guys? we want Tango style of football not european! Aimar's time is almost over just like Riquelme bring in some new guys! give them some chances play Messi in that role!
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Agreed. Its just a friendly and I really don't care for the result other than wanting/expecting Argentina to win every game they show up to play. At least the Sub17 did beat New Zealand. Did anyone watch that game?

Moishe · Oct 11, 2006

Re: ARGENTINA vs. españa, pre game Comments

Castroman said:

Guys calm down its the coaches second game and he's still giving chances and testing players!

yeah we lost a friendly so what? the players werent a good combination at all! very slow tempo! caused us a lot, Tevez not in his form anymore at all, Messi play him midfield, Somoza, Lucho, Insua, Zabaleta not NT material!

we need Ferrari, Gago, Belluschi, Moralez, Higuain, Fernandez, Botinelli where are these guys? we want Tango style of football not european! Aimar's time is almost over just like Riquelme bring in some new guys! give them some chances play Messi in that role!
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I agree with the majority of your post. I have faith in Coco, like you said, he needs to work a bit more with the players and tactics to see who will and who will not work. Messi I wouldn't so much restrict to playing in one particular part of the pitch. Let him roam around and make the defense find him as opposed to leaving out on an island regardless of where on the pitch it is.

Tevez will find his form and I believe it will be sooner than later. The kid has had a pretty hectic/crazy past six months. Lucho just hasn't shown much in a very long time for the shirt so maybe we should move forward without him. El Pocho, Somoza and Zabaleta could use a bit more exposure.

As for your comment about "needing" the aforementioned players, need is a pretty strong statement. By saying we need these particular players, we are only setting them up for potential failure or disappointment. Gago is probably the best of the lot with Ferrari, Higuain and Belluschi just slightly behind. The others just haven't done enough yet to warrent being "needed"

I still believe in Aimars abilities and he is still fairly young so I wouldn't write him off just yet. As for Romans time being over, this game showed just how needed he is. Whether anyone wants to admit, many "experts" always were in awe of Romys game intelligence and today it was obvious just how much he is needed. Our midfield was absolutely lost and clueless.

In order for our younger players to excel, they need to be around and play with veterans. Belluschi for example would greatly benefit from being around a Riquelme as much as a Milito, Ferrari....would benefit from training and playing alongside an Ayala. Let's not panic yet, let's see what happens with the Copa America first.

As for Cavenaghi, maybe, look at the video below and decide. He hasn't done what he did at river in arguably a lesser league. I still like him though and feel that he deserves a look. Let's not become England fans and hate on our team, let's support them and look for positives where ever we can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eenmPrdRzLY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tL2fYzAzPQU

Saludos a todo, gallinas tambien

mariealus · Oct 11, 2006

Re: ARGENTINA vs. españa, pre game Comments

bsas said:

And to answer to mariealus, this Argentina team does not deserve nr 3 ranking. No way!
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hey i never said i believed it!

Dr. Know · Oct 11, 2006

Re: ARGENTINA vs. españa, pre game Comments

Moishe said:

As for your comment about "needing" the aforementioned players, need is a pretty strong statement. By saying we need these particular players, we are only setting them up for potential failure or disappointment. Gago is probably the best of the lot with Ferrari, Higuain and Belluschi just slightly behind. The others just haven't done enough yet to warrent being "needed"
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The others aren't needed either. Maybe Bellushi but D'Allesandro should get the call before him. Higuain is still young and just cause he had a great game against Boca doesn't mean he should be called up . Argentina already has alot of depth in the forwards area and similar players. Plus Palacio is better.

Moishe · Oct 11, 2006

Re: ARGENTINA vs. españa, pre game Comments

Dr. Know said:

The others aren't needed either. Maybe Bellushi but D'Allesandro should get the call before him. Higuain is still young and just cause he had a great game against Boca doesn't mean he should be called up . Argentina already has alot of depth in the forwards area and similar players. Plus Palacio is better.
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True that.

Castroman · Oct 11, 2006

Re: ARGENTINA vs. españa, pre game Comments

Dr. Know said:

The others aren't needed either. Maybe Bellushi but D'Allesandro should get the call before him. Higuain is still young and just cause he had a great game against Boca doesn't mean he should be called up . Argentina already has alot of depth in the forwards area and similar players. Plus Palacio is better.
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just against Boca? have u been watching River for the past yr? watch him then tell me against Boca :> how about Palacio, Higuain as a combination?

Dr. Know · Oct 11, 2006

Re: ARGENTINA vs. españa, pre game Comments

Castroman said:

just against Boca? have u been watching River for the past yr? watch him then tell me against Boca :> how about Palacio, Higuain as a combination?
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Yes I have been watching him. The only reason some people are calling for him is because of the game against Boca. Argentina already has ridiculous depth in that area plus he's only 18! He's one for the future.

Moishe · Oct 11, 2006

Re: ARGENTINA vs. españa, pre game Comments

Castroman said:

just against Boca? have u been watching River for the past yr? watch him then tell me against Boca :> how about Palacio, Higuain as a combination?
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Higuain is indeed a talented player but like you said, one for the future. He's had good games over the past year but you've got to admit, the BOCA match was his break out game. Let me rephrase that, his stand out game.

Sergio Aguero · Oct 11, 2006

Re: ARGENTINA vs. españa, pre game Comments

http://www.clarin.com/diario/2006/10/11/um/m-01288123.htm

cupcake83 · Oct 11, 2006

Re: ARGENTINA vs. españa, pre game Comments

bsas said:

I am totally unbiased regarding the Boca or River origin of our players, so I can say without any hesitation that those people who say Aimar can replace Riquelme are nuts! The guy had so many chances in NT, and he was always invisible. He never made a difference, unlike Roman.

I was extremely disappointed of the way our guys played tonight, and I'm not saying that because we lost. There was absolutely no plan in their play. I came to wonder what happened since last game, where they lost, agreed, but at least showed some great attack and great occasions. And the only reason I could find was guess who? Riquelme.

Argentina deserved to lose today. They need to be a team again, like the one Pekerman put up in the WC. I hope Roman comes back, and if not, I hope we can find someone to replace him. But I don't think Aimar is up to the task.
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The guy played for like 35 min total this game. I wouldn't count him out yet. I miss Riquelme and thought we needed him but I've seen him (Riquelme) get lost in a game too. Remember the Brazil game a month ago, he could barely complete a pass. Aimar and actually Insua as well, like Riquelme before them, are going to need a little time to get used to their role. In Aimar's case it wouldn't hurt to let the guy start a game. I think someone else said it best, if Somoza can start why can't Aimar. He was awesome during the 2002 WC, one of the only players that escaped criticism and he did well during qualifiers. He never got to start this WC and barely had any playing time so it's unfair to say that he isn't up to par. The guy is awesome for Zaragoza. I never judged Riquelme on a solitary performance and I'm not going to do the same to Aimar.

I also agree with some of the posters here that we all need a little perspective. Of course we don't seem like a team like the one in the WC. We have only played 2 GAMES together and the lineup has changed considerably. We have only practiced together for like a week. Of course Pekerman's team seemed more cohesive if you think about the amount of time they were together prior to the WC, they have four years to get ready. It's going to take time and we need to be patient.

I also feel that we should be glad that we lost to a decent team instead of a crappy one AND....we didn't have any embarrassing own goals like another team that played today, hehe

ElGaucho · Oct 11, 2006

Re: ARGENTINA vs. españa, pre game Comments

maxpepper said:

vs brasil en el monumental cuando le da la asistencia a
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c'mon.. one play.. he's been crap ever since... it was a good thing he got hurt in the serbia game.. cuchu replaced him and did waayyyy better.

Illrod3 · Oct 12, 2006

Re: ARGENTINA vs. españa, pre game Comments

As for Cavenaghi, maybe, look at the video below and decide. He hasn't done what he did at river in arguably a lesser league. I still like him though and feel that he deserves a look. Let's not become England fans and hate on our team, let's support them and look for positives where ever we can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eenmPrdRzLY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tL2fYzAzPQU

Saludos a todo, gallinas tambien
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After watching the vidoes (and thanks for them, hadn't seen Cavenaghi highlights in a while) I say let Cavenaghi start at least one game, ...If he promises to stop "dancing" while celebrating goals. We can't have him embarrassing the Nation.

BigSoccer Bot · Oct 12, 2006

[News] Moderados lamentos después de la derrota

Ayala dijo que la caída debe servir para crecer. Tevez cree que hubo momentos buenos. Agüero opinó distinto y el Pato dijo: "Vamos a salir."

Link To Original Article

bsas · Oct 12, 2006

Re: ARGENTINA vs. españa, pre game Comments

cupcake83 said:

The guy played for like 35 min total this game. I wouldn't count him out yet. I miss Riquelme and thought we needed him but I've seen him (Riquelme) get lost in a game too. Remember the Brazil game a month ago, he could barely complete a pass. Aimar and actually Insua as well, like Riquelme before them, are going to need a little time to get used to their role. In Aimar's case it wouldn't hurt to let the guy start a game. I think someone else said it best, if Somoza can start why can't Aimar. He was awesome during the 2002 WC, one of the only players that escaped criticism and he did well during qualifiers. He never got to start this WC and barely had any playing time so it's unfair to say that he isn't up to par. The guy is awesome for Zaragoza. I never judged Riquelme on a solitary performance and I'm not going to do the same to Aimar.

I also agree with some of the posters here that we all need a little perspective. Of course we don't seem like a team like the one in the WC. We have only played 2 GAMES together and the lineup has changed considerably. We have only practiced together for like a week. Of course Pekerman's team seemed more cohesive if you think about the amount of time they were together prior to the WC, they have four years to get ready. It's going to take time and we need to be patient.

I also feel that we should be glad that we lost to a decent team instead of a crappy one AND....we didn't have any embarrassing own goals like another team that played today, hehe
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I don't say he should not be included anymore. He is definitely an excellent player. But I say that he is not up to the role of enganche.

Roman was indeed turning invisible from time to time in games, but still the ball circulated through him, and our midfield was a solid block waiting for an occasion to happen. As Clarin said, a bad Riquelme offered more than Aimar or Insua yesterday.

Siempre_Albiceleste · Oct 12, 2006

Re: ARGENTINA vs. españa, pre game Comments

After thinking about things a bit more since yesterday (I admit that I was way too heated), it occured to me one of the biggest problem the squad has had for the longest time...CONTINUITY. There is always an influx of new talent and the team never really gets a chance to gel. when was the last time we started the same lineup in back-to-back games? Maybe some of you will find some instances but I will say that has not happened anywhere close to the level that it should happen.
Part of that is to blame to the insane amount of talent the nation has. Part of that is bad decisions on the part of the coach. People are too quick to criticize players and put unfair expectations on them. So the coach always feels like he has to make changes.
Also, in all sports, the teams that are able to stay good for long periods of time are those who retain their valuable players. Yeah, you may change a few parts here and there but the skeleton of the team remains intact. That is not the case for the Albiceleste and I will say that until we get that resolved, we'll always have a wildly inconsistent team...And inconsistent teams don't win the trophies. We may string a few good performances but in the end, that won't be enough!
Why can't people be more patient instead of driving the national players away? I remember a couple of years ago, when Crespo was struggling, people were asking for his head and didn't think he had a place on the team anymore. It was really sad for me how quickly and easily people forget. Romy gets the same treatment because of wildly bloated expectations. So when we have performances like yesterday, it hurts me to the core but it's really not that unexpected.
I am hoping that Basile approaches this thing in a smart way and look to build a solid nucleus for this team. The ultimate goal may be 2010 but unless we build a good foundation right now, I'm affraid it will end in frustration as well. Bring back guys like Crespo, Sorin, el pupi, Cuchu, Samuel, & pray 4 Romy to come back and have the new guys learn from them. They may not be the future but they have contributions to make to this team. Dumping the team in the hands of Messi, Kun, & Tevez right away is a sure way to failure. Yes, they are the future but they can't carry a team on their backs quite just yet.

Oh yeah, and pray for Cavenaghi to get out of Russia and have Crespo hand him down that #9 shirt by earning it. And maybe even Bilos can be converted to a striker. people may not take that seriously but as I see more of him, I think he may have the skill set to be a decent striker.

Illrod3 · Oct 12, 2006

Re: ARGENTINA vs. españa, pre game Comments

Oh yeah, and pray for Cavenaghi to get out of Russia and have Crespo hand him down that #9 shirt by earning it. And maybe even Bilos can be converted to a striker. people may not take that seriously but as I see more of him, I think he may have the skill set to be a decent striker.
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Agree with you on that, specially about Bilos, the guy is a freak of nature. He has played some striker with Banfield under Falcioni, so he can do it. But I think that coaches feel he can be best use on the wings where his speed, ball control and height can be use more in defense and with surprise attacks. But he definetly has the skills for he guy his size.