Argentina vs Croatia - Friendly, 12 November 2014

Discussion in 'Argentina: Selecciones Nacionales' started by Rattlehead, Nov 10, 2014.

  1. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member

    Jan 19, 2013
    #51 johnbarley2, Nov 13, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2014
    I think Enzo was the main culprit on the goal although lazy positioning and tackling by all 3 midfielders + Ansaldi, and Di Maria's bizarre new role didn't help.

    1.jpg
     
  2. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member

    Jan 19, 2013
  3. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member

    Jan 19, 2013
  4. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member

    Jan 19, 2013
  5. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member

    Jan 19, 2013
  6. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member

    Jan 19, 2013
  7. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member

    Jan 19, 2013
  8. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    I actually agree with you in that Tite was the most sensible candidate. Before the World Cup, I wrote a very long post on the Brazil forums as to why Tite was the man for the job, and he actually took time off from coaching to study coaching and to expand his knowledge and understanding of managing teams.

    Unlike his first stint, though, Brazil will have separate coaches for senior and Olympic teams. Therefore, regardless of Brazil's fate in 2016, Dunga won't be managing.

    As for grabbing shirts, kicking, and disrupting play, you must have seen not a moment of highlights yesterday, because Brazil beat Turkey with solid play, good passing, and even some dribbling.

    As for Scolari, his career now has a huge stain on it, but he's nonetheless won more Cups as a senior-level NT manager than any NT manager your country has had since Bilardo in 1986 and Basile in 1993.
     
  9. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I see, then I hope he fails at the Copa, but I doubt that will get him fired. The CBF obviously see something in Dunga they like, most people don't.

    As for playing well against Turkey and being free flowing, that's because it is Turkey. They are a terrible team, and wouldn't challenge you guys. If it is a team that has a bit of talent, the fouling will continue. Dunga is not going to change his tactics.
     
  10. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    Brazil is 5 for 5 since he returned, with a 2-0 win against your Argentina managed by Martino. Given he lost only 6 games in 3.5 years as a manager, it's safe to say he's got a pretty good track record - a track record with wins over Maradona's and Alfio Sabile's teams. No wonder you want him to fail. If he does anywhere as well as he did during 2006-2010, your team will lose to Brazil.

    Strange that fouling would bother you given that you as a Tigre fan should be accustomed to that - certainly, you haven't forgotten your team's skullduggery against my SPFC 2 years ago. But whatever makes you feel better about Brazil winning 4-0 - I hear ya. See you in Chile 2015.
     
  11. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Don't even start that nonsense, comparing Tigre to the national team of Brasil. But yeah.... Later.
     
  12. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I beileve Brazil was 5 out of 5 in Confederation? and maybe like 18 out of 20 in friendlies ? That didnt mean anything once you arriive at the WC, appearently.

    Brazil now relying solely on Neymar performance and it shows during the WC.
     
    Pipiolo repped this.
  13. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Banega also looks lazy as hell, never look interested in the game. By 2016, he would be slower than the ref.
     
  14. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA

    Indeed, performance outside the World Cup guarantees nothing in the World Cup.

    You as an Argentine should know this all too well - the 2002 World Cup and the run-up to it are perfect proof. Argentina suffered only 1 defeat in the qualifying for 2002, and qualified several rounds early. Yet in Korea/Japan, Argentina failed to advance from the first round. In contrast, Brazil struggled tremendously during that time, raising concerns that it would not even reach the World Cup. Yet once in Korea/Japan, Brazil went 7 for 7 and brought the trophy home.

    Relying solely on Neymar? If you count the Japan friendly only, I guess. But the man is breaking out and doing nicely as he partners with Messi. At the same time, we have other options, as Dunga is building a new team and bringing in players who did not previously get NT play time. It's worked so far - we've won all our matches in the second Dunga era. Interestingly, we didn't Neymar's goals against you in the Superclássico. Diego Tardelli of all people scored a brace.

    Despite the collection of forwards your team has enjoyed - Tevez, Messi, Aguero, Higuain, Lavezzi, and Di Maria (ok, he's not a natural forward, but he surely contributes on offense), your team has not gotten the results you have hoped. Yet "solely" with Neymar, we've gotten at least one official FIFA cup tournament. Unfortunately, not the World Cup - but there's 2018. Your team has had many great strikers/forwards over the years, but the title drought continues - World Cup included. Doesn't mean your team sucks or that your team isn't a contender. But, I'd rather have 1 or 2 players to rely on and win cups than to have a large collection of amazing talent and yet not win any tournaments. If you're honest, you'll agree.
     
  15. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    It depends what you define as "strong European" team, but Belgium currently is deemed as having a golden generation and are ranked #5 by FIFA, so I would think they are strong yet Argentina beat them in WC14 in regulation time and without much difficulty.

    I also think that you are overrating friendlies, especially friendlies right after the WC which are rather irrelevant. The six months after a WC are the best time to test new players and change of tactics, although Martino unfortunately is not trying out too many new names.
     
  16. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    I was going by Rattlehead's definition: "the likes of Germany, Holland and France." He apparently had forgotten that on the last occasion Brazil met France, Brazil won.

    Are friendlies irrelevant? Friendlies don't bring titles, but for managers who wish to forget title-contending sides, each match is important for the purposes of observing players. It's what you said - the best time to test new players and to try new tactics. My point to Rattlehead was that in Dunga's 2nd tenure, Brazil has done well, precisely because of his introduction of new players and a different system. As for your team's new manager, given how the 2013 Newell's Old Boys played very well (until he left), and given he is apparently a player's manager, I speculate your team will be competitive under him. I did write earlier I don't know much (and am not interested, frankly) in how different he is from Sabella. I speculate the match vs. Portugal will provide insight to all observers as to what Martino intends to accomplish.

    On that note, I hope it's a great match.
     
    Pipiolo repped this.
  17. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Yeah, Martino is a player's coach, he always earns the respect and hard work from his players. I think he is being conservative in part due to the success of Sabella in reaching the WC final - he will be compared against this yardstick and needs to get results, even in friendlies, to avoid the questioning of his appointment. In that sense, had Sabella stayed on he could afford to be more riskier in his calls as he had already established his credibility.

    I like that Lamela, Pereyra, Silva, Ansaldi and Gaitan, as well as the veteran Tevez, have already been called up. But there are a few other players that Martino needs to try out, the likes of Catarbia, Yacob, Dybala, Vietto, Icardi, Ocampo, Muscacchio, and Lopez are ripe for a call up to the NT, particularly in the coming months. I believe Martino's style is more possession based than Sabella's, and he prefers a natural playmaker rather than spearheading the attacks from the flanks, like Sabella usually did.
     
  18. RiverGaucho

    RiverGaucho Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Buenos Aires
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I'd rather make the world cup final and lose than win the confederations cup any time. Making the world cup final is the 2nd biggest accomplishment a south american team can have only surpassed by winning the final itself.

    winning the copa america would be nice, but its not the end all be all. winning it won't change what happened on july 13 2014 nor would it guarantee success in 2018.

    As to friendlies being important for trying new players, well i disagree. I think these modern day friendlies are only there to make money. For example, Messi is contractually obliged to play in every Argentina friendly, if he doesn't, the AFA has to pay back the organizers and the stadium/club that host the match.

    This game against portugal i'm sure has other stipulations written in. Would be a good game to give Lamela a start? Sure, but I'm sure its required for Di Maria to start since its being played in his home ground.

    Sure, Martino has tried out some new players like Pereyra, Vangioni, and some others, but that was against Hong kong, can you really learn from playing hong king?
     
    locoxriver repped this.
  19. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member

    Jan 19, 2013
    It's a matter of opinion.

    For me the Conderations is a bogus tournament, just another fundraiser for FIFA.

    But the Copa America is almost on par with the world cup. Champion of South America, the best rivalries.
     
    jimmi_moh and Rattlehead repped this.
  20. RiverGaucho

    RiverGaucho Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Buenos Aires
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Huh? Surely you don't really mean that, or maybe you are just trying to tell yourself that to console the fact that argentina couldn't win the world cup final...

    The Copa America is Mickey mouse and as bogus as the confed cup, probably more so, teams are invited, and last time costa rica and mexico came and played Sub 23 sides. It was one of the worst tournaments I've ever seen. Paraguay made the final without winning a single game the whole tournament, it was disgraceful

    In the past we have seen Japan and USA come with C sides

    Brazil always used to come with C teams to the copa america, ronaldo and ronaldinho never played a copa america after 1999. Kaka never even played one.

    Argentina, uncase your memory is short, also used to take half ass teams to Copa America, and in recent times, we even declined to go to one. You ever heard of a team declining a spot in the world cup?

    Sorry but world cup qualifiers are more prestigious than copa america in its current state
     
  21. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I do tend to agree with RG to a certain degree. Only reason we invite teams like Mexico and Japan is because of their market. Since the US sent out a poor team in the 07, they have not been invited. Mexico will always be invited. The schedule is a bit conflicting with their own federations tournament, Gold Cup. They always want to win that so they could go to the Confederations Cup. We declined to go to the 01 Copa America, that is because it was in Colombia and nobody wanted to go to Colombia at that time, plus weren't there threats?. There was a Brazilian player who arrived in Colombia, then decided to go back home. I believe Honduras arrived after the tournament had already started. I didn't care much about that tournament, we had just won the U20 World Cup at home, and still is a team that I keep close to me. The Copa America has become a big business nowadays, federations are bringing their best players not for glory but for money they can pump out of these teams.
     
  22. RiverGaucho

    RiverGaucho Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Buenos Aires
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Yea my point is the current copa america is just a different thing. the last copa america played in argentina was probably the worst international tournament i've ever seen. Most of the games were just mind numbing and it was played at a very low level.

    I remember the quarterfinal, colombia vs. peru was one of the worst games i've ever seen, i got up half way through and went to take a walk. I didn't even bother watching either semifinal, and the final was trash.

    Now on the other hand, I don't think i missed a single match of the entire world cup, i even watched nigeria-iran and that was a fascinating game, even Costa rica-greece, the least "glamorous" of the knockout games was thrilling.

    The World Cup is the world cup and saying the copa america is almost on par with it is laughable. Everything in world football is arranged around 4 year cycles for a reason, every football fan knows the world cup from the top of their head, i can even tell you where they were held years before i was born. Sweden 58, Chile 62, England 66, Mexico 70, Germany 74... I can only remember where the last copa america was because it was in argentina. i have no idea where the one before that was.
     
    Pipiolo repped this.
  23. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member

    Jan 19, 2013
    #73 johnbarley2, Nov 18, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
    Matches are low level?
    There were a lot of bad matches during the last Copa but I guess you forgot the World Cup 2010 (those were as bad with too many garbage countries) . Generally though, The Copa America matches are more entertaining than the World Cup matches and it's not close.

    Quality?
    CONMEBOL is easily the top conference in the world so it's funny how the tournament is so bad according to you. There are really no bad sides anymore.

    Problem with Invitations?
    Generally other Latin American countries are invited and they should be because they really belong in the same conference. Mexico should always come. If you've been in Mexico, you'd agree. Too bad Spain can't come sometimes as well. Although, invitees should be pressured to bring their best or not come as SuperMario said. I don't like non-Latin American countries being invited.

    Importance?
    Uruguayans sure thought it was important when they hacked and dived us to death in the last one. Argentina also pulled out of the WC for political reasons (yes long ago, still relevant). I've been to 3 of the last 4 CA's and never been to a world cup match. That's probably why I find it more interesting and important than you. I think the atmosphere is great and champions of South America is not a bad title. Like I said, it's personal.

    WCQs are close to being as good as CA for me as well because there is less luck involved than in a knockout tournament. CONMEBOL has the best WCQ format by far. It's basically like winning the league. Eg, I still have good memories of the 2002 team even though they crashed in the world cup.
     
  24. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    All I remember from CA 2011 were draw results, penalties and fouls.
     
    locoxriver repped this.
  25. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member

    Jan 19, 2013
    #75 johnbarley2, Nov 18, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
    Right, one of the worst Copa's ever and our team was at its low point. The match against Colombia was the worst. It wasn't a typical tournament though.
     

Share This Page