Argentina vs Colombia Copa America 2021 Semi-Final: (July 6th)

Discussion in 'Colombian National Team' started by HomietheClown, Jul 3, 2021.

  1. Azucarero

    Azucarero Member+

    May 9, 2008
    #251 Azucarero, Jul 7, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2021
    The only players for me who have an unquestionable position are Barrios and Ospina. James would be if it wasn't for his health. Mina and Sanchez only are because there's no other experienced options.

    Borja did not improve over Duvan last night. That 2nd half improvement was entirely a result of Fabra actually being an LB and Cuadrado having space to operate from RB. And after Di Maria came in, I really would have liked Duvan on the pitch, honestly.

    I'm down for giving other players chances. In this tournament, Borre's value was his pressing...not holding onto the ball. He played a lot of minutes, and I did not want him up front. In fact, he played best at LW when he had more space.

    I've spoken my toughts on Muriel in this tournament. Dude showed nothing.

    Edit: Borre played on the right, not the left.
     
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  2. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Muriel only got the chance to start agisnt venezuela adn uruguay, only 2 times............didnt play against ecuador, argentina and brasil........duvan played al ********ing matches including wcq....Muriel was the reason we draw argentina in wcq after he was benched....

    Borre only played 4....of 8...and played one as midfielder......


    Borja first ball he touch was a shot that he brought outised the area..........is more umpreditable and isnt shy agsint argie cbs....like duvan.
     
  3. Doogs

    Doogs Member+

    Dec 11, 2010
    Miami
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    so as expected, I was at work during this so couldn't watch an ounce of this at all. Obviously I see we lost in pens but how did it go? I saw something about Cardona and Guajaro did good as usual.

    Going to read through the thread now
     
  4. Azucarero

    Azucarero Member+

    May 9, 2008
    But Muriel was the WORST player on the pitch in BOTH of those matches.

    Once you start talking about his performance in the qualifiers, then we might as well go back and start talking about club form, too. In a tournament, I don't think you should. And that's generally my policy on evaluating all players. What you've done in the past gets you to the callup; what you've done for me lately is what gets you starting on the pitch.

    Borre was dispossessed about half the time he got the ball in each match. He couldn't keep up with how quick defenders were closing down on him.

    Borja took his shot when he had Munoz open to his right, with a much better angle to take the shot. And Duvan didn't get a single opportunity like that all match. He didn't do very much at all in his start against Ecuador either.

    You're acting like the others are performing above him, when they simply aren't. If Rueda wanted to bench him for any of the others, I'd have had no problem with it at all. All coaches try to have some consistency from match to match, and Duvan was neither the source of the problems nor a guy who was getting outperformed. It's easy to look back on a long time frame and say a player shouldn't have played because he didn't put up the numbers you'd expect. But that ignores the context of how the player actually played, how the team played, and how they mesh together. Falcao was victim of that thinking often...

    There was only one player on this roster who wasn't benched when he clearly should've been: Tesillo.
     
  5. SoyDelMustang

    SoyDelMustang Member+

    Dec 24, 2007
    Flushing,Queens
    Club:
    Atletico Nacional
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    I don’t think it’s a bad idea but Rueda’s execution was bad. If I was him I’d use attacking full backs ala Armero/Zuniga days to help us with creativity since you have Cuellar/Barrios out there not moving the midfield. I would also use proper wingers. But instead has a winger and 2 strikers. So it’s a bit unbalanced.
     
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  6. Doogs

    Doogs Member+

    Dec 11, 2010
    Miami
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    he's prioritizing defensive stability before he works on execution, I think its a good idea for now. Also, I still think he's used this tournament to go mad and try all his possibilities
     
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  7. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    disagree was the worst, in urguay showed danger, for nothing almots scored a golazo. duvan was too in some he started.

    repeat never played as 9 as borre...

    Have been 8 officcial matches where duvan played it all and didnt contribute in gals or assistences..........if we add queiroz last are 10..........honestly falcao, teo, bacca even rodallega didnt completed 10 official matches, 9 as starters....without a single goal or assitances.....a lot of credit and opoortunities to a guy with 30 years..........over others.
     
  8. villus

    villus Member+

    Jun 5, 2008
    Bacca, Falcao are poachers who don't offer you anything if they aren't scoring goals, they can't hold up the ball at all and games where we are defending a lot they keep losing balls. Teo offers a bit more but Duvan is a different style of player, lots of games he didn't get a goal or assist but his work allowed us to take pressure off from defending and holding up defenders creates chances for others. Simply looking at goals and assists to compare to poachers who all they offer is goals or assists is not really worthwhile. There is a reason he's an auto starter for Atalanta even if he's not scoring goals and the same for us, his all round play is very good and his hold up and distribution changes games for the better.
     
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  9. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    #259 pepinointer, Jul 7, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2021
    Duvan lost his sport as starter fin some perios in atalanta......not only with muriel, also ilicic. Round of 16 in 2020, also this season a time with muriel...........isnt like the auto start......

    Falcao offered a lot in circuit of the game pivoting inteligent clearence of passes.....he isnt just a poacher....his lecture in the game was pivotal, isnt like he ahve to be super strong to offer another thing.......The associative capacity of him, maybe only have it borre....


    Only in this mediocre country is acceptable that a 9 doesnt offer direct contributiions of goals in his 10 matches and is spoiled by fans.................we wont win anyhthing.....with that standards.........in spain almost killed morata that scored 3 goals.....

    Rueda isnt helping him and the nt with his insistence and giving him mmore chances than his mates............the results will be toxic.
     
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  10. villus

    villus Member+

    Jun 5, 2008
    What service is he getting lately on the NT? He was dropped at Atalanta after coming back from an injury when Ilicic was putting up Messi like numbers and they didn't want to play 3 forwards, this season has been different, the only time he's getting dropped is to rest him. I can't really remember a lot of games where he's missing chances and is getting set up constantly, we've played a bunch of games without James and the type of chances we are creating aren't exactly putting opportunities on a platter for him.

    Muriel and Duvan are head and shoulders quality wise over all of our forwards, Muriel has been dropped from a lot of games which I don't agree with and Duvan hasn't which I agree with. It's easy to think the grass is greener on the other side and playing a Borja and Borre or Morelos is fine but when our whole offense is counter attacking and crosses into the box Duvan is insanely above anyone else for that type of game (at least to start, coming off the bench and subbing forwards different story imo)
     
  11. passat1976

    passat1976 Member+

    Oct 19, 2007
    USA
    Club:
    Universitario de Deportes
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    No tengo vela en este entierro.. pero sin ser colombiano, me parecio bastante inapropiada y antideportiva la actitud de Martinez anoche.. es verdad, a veces la actitud y bailes de Mina caen mal, pero Martinez se excedio anoche.. una cosa es cancherear al rival, pero Martinez se puso a insultar a los jugadores, hasta "cagon" le escuche decir.

    Y me doy cuenta que no soy el unico.. el mismo Castrilli que lo recuerdo como un arbitro muy correcto y implacable en su epoca no tuvo reparos en decir: Martinez debio haber sido expulsado.. pero anoche ese arbitro venezolano estaba mas pintado que pared de baño publico.




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  12. Doogs

    Doogs Member+

    Dec 11, 2010
    Miami
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    I don't know if I agree that opportunities should be "on a platter" if you get opportunities whether its 1.2 or 10 they need to be put in because that is your responsibility as a forward. He's had more than enough chances to at least score a single damn goal. When he doesn't perform there needs to be consequences. Its very simple
     
  13. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Un bocon gigante, pero bueno en este continente que se toleran tantos chilvaverts justufficado en el "folclor" no sorprende.......y mas con este arbitraje de esta copa.....solo es mirar lo que le hicieron a peru con la mano de silva.

    La verdad es que creo que si fallaron Mina y Sanchez fue por que no son especialistas...Borja ni se imutó con lo que le dijo Martinez.
     
  14. colombianballa91

    Jul 2, 2007
    NJ
    Club:
    Junior Barranquilla
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Eh I think its part of the sport. If youre going to dance on someone (even if it is not meant to be disrespectful) you should also expect some trash talk in return..the argie goalie was really toe-ing the line there though and prob should have been cracked in the mouth.
     
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  15. Tio Nicci

    Tio Nicci Member+

    Nov 13, 2008
    Houston, Texas
    Club:
    Deportivo Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Cardona was more a liability. Even if your slow, you can make it up by putting yourself in good position, but again this falls on Rueda, counter attacking football should not involve a slow ass Cardona. For me Muriel over cardona.

    As for Fabra, the Left back changed the dynamic of our attack and it was slightly positive. But Fabra has lost his form, slow reaction, just aggressive and hit people. How many times did Di Maria school him in 10 minute? (imagine if he had started)

    We need a left back and a creator. If Muriel isn't the option, then James needs to come back or we need a second coming of a new creator. Cardona slow, James a queen, and JFQ is weird.

    Sebas Villa probably better option chan Yimmi Chara, but Yimmi didn't play bad, but I don't see him being consistent either. Shit I take Luis Sinisterra at RW.

    Borja also proved to be very inconsistent. I like him, but against weaker teams. Not top teams like Brazil or Argentina.
     
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  16. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
  17. Furnaccio

    Furnaccio Member+

    Feb 19, 2008
    New York, NY
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    At least “Empanada” got the assist to Díaz yesterday. For as slow and out of shape Cardona is, he always manages to do something brilliant.

    Someone earlier described him perfectly…

    Slovenly guy who shows up to Sunday league pickup game drunk or hungover but manages to have to play of the day at the expense of several bonehead moves.

    I really hope guys like Cantillo, Villa, Sinister, etc get a proper run over the next year. We really need that depth off the bench.

    As for LB - there’s 19 teams in the Colombian league - you mean to tell me there are 19 LB’s worse than Tesillo/Fabra/Mojica?? Yikes
     
  18. villus

    villus Member+

    Jun 5, 2008
    You're looking at one metric to assess wether he's performing and ignoring everything else, sure that makes it easier but looking at less variables to make it simple is not how you get the best results. Its not very simple, you can say the midfield should be putting chances on a plate for a striker, so we should simply be reactionary and change the whole midfield? We have a large sample size of Duvan doing good things and scoring and setting up goals, the same sample size of our others forwards don't compare.
     
  19. jquintero10

    jquintero10 Member

    May 19, 2010
    Club:
    Atletico Nacional
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Colombia was arguably the better team tbh. Colombia played their best game of the tournament and almost pulled it off. Emi really got in the head of those players. I don' t think it would be the same with 60k fans in the stadium though lol. Great game overall but horrible ref he seemed lost. Excited to see what Colombia can do in the future. Fabra in the second half really showed how much better we are offensively. Now add James and or Quintero to the mix and we have a squad boys. Rueda really used this as a trial and tbh I'm not mad about it. Qatar is our focus and Rueda was straight forward about it from the beginning. Luis Diaz CRACK, Ospina what can I say he might have some errors but he always comes big when we need him, Barrios is our Kante that guy our midfield guardian. Our strikers just need a couple of goals to get that confidence back up which will happen with time.
     
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  20. Doogs

    Doogs Member+

    Dec 11, 2010
    Miami
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    im looking at the metric that gets wins and titles. How many times have we heard the same crap over and over for decades now. We've had all that stuff and everyone else goes on about at different points in time and when it comes down to it, no goals are being scored. Forwards are doing all kinds of ridiculous things managing to mess up even the most simplest of chances and what happens is we get the same old results over and over again because we just go in circles every single time. This game is ultimately simple, you score you win. Thats it.
     
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  21. villus

    villus Member+

    Jun 5, 2008
    Well if we got Messi or Ronaldo on the bench to score all those goals and get us titles then by all means lets play them. We don't, we had Falcao and it was great but he's not there anymore or isn't close to the player he was. So as of now we have a guy who's scoring, assisting and competing at the highest level against the best clubs in the world so we should probably stick with him more then Borja who's failed plenty.
     
  22. Doogs

    Doogs Member+

    Dec 11, 2010
    Miami
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    He's done it at the highest level and hasn't done it at the national level, so try someone else. If that guy doesn't score, try another one. Idc what his name is, the guy who isn't performing should get dropped.
     
  23. crzdcolombian

    crzdcolombian Member+

    Jul 17, 2006
    Avon,CT
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Honestly if we stop calling James and Cuadrado I think we are still a top team. The strikers will start scoring eventually especially with Fabra or a better LB on the field.

    for most of the game we dominated with 2 5’s playing. I would think having James in there and Uribe would have been a different games.

    we need to win when it counts which is qualifiers abs the World Cup. No way were we beating Brazil with this limited team.

    Rueda needs to learn from his fk ups and actually scout. After 8 games needs to know what he is missing and what doesn’t work.
     
  24. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    The thing is without friendlies it is a little more difficult to integrate new guys who have not really been a part of the process.
    I would like to see all those guys get chances but will Rueda give them chances in Qualifiers? Not sure.

    And the sad thing about LB is the answer is probably yes, they are worse. Since most of the Colombian League LBs who are decent just play against Colombian competition and maybe a Libertadores / Sudamericana match here or there it really is a huge jump for those guys when they have to put on the heavy Yellow shirt of Colombia in tough International matches.
    I think Machado in France may be our only hope and I am not even all that confident in him.
     
  25. Furnaccio

    Furnaccio Member+

    Feb 19, 2008
    New York, NY
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    [emoji1785][emoji1785][emoji2961][emoji2961][emoji22][emoji22][emoji24][emoji24]
     

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