I disagree, we had Crespo and Cruz against Germany, and lobbing certainly didn't help us. Nor did it help Italy or France who scored most of their goals from the ground despite having tall guys up front. It would be a mistake to lob against tall defenses.
The idea should be partnering a fast CB with a strong one. Micho is quick, so we need a strong man to partner him.
I can't agree with you more. I just want to find the 11 best players that want to win. Don't care who it is anymore, I just want to win!! I think a lot of you guys are just nit picking a little bit to much and thats fine. This team can do that to you. Not saying we should field a team thats 4 feet tall but lets not get crazy and start playing guys just because they got height.
Height, body strenght and speed ? I guess Argentina should start producing those genetically enchanced steroid using super humans football players you seem to be talking about. This whole height issue is severly overblown. I have played against tall 6'3 defenders and they were much easier to dribble throught than short ones. Their legs are too long, they do not have much balance, generally lack speed and have slow reflexes. This is from personal experience, obviously a professional player would be much more competent, but put him against a low centre of gravity attacker and he will be dead meat. Argentina is very vulnerable to counter-attacks, a tall defender would have to have excellent positioning to make-up for his lack of speed. I don't think the issue is the lack of height. What we need is balance, a cohesive team that functions as a unit and better strategy/tactics. We are very predictable and monotone, we play an overly direct style. The players need more options, notably on the flanks and in the attack. We need a #9 that will take the pressure off Messi and Tevez who are always surrounded by defenders and can only rely on penetration. Height does not matter that much, ability is much more important. When I remember Batigol, I picture brute force, powerful shot and deadly instincts. Height does not really come to mind, sure he had great header but I attribute that more to positioning and body strenght.
Retarded? Okaaay. Remind me of the great performance Crespo had against Germany via "lobbing" balls? Or the WC final where tall strikers scored goals via "lobbing". Lobbing balls up field has to be the dumbest tactic for Argentina I've heard. As Matias said, this ain't basketball. There's no evidence aerial superiority outside of set pieces is important to win WC.
Because we don't have height up front, our opponent can just deploy their short and speedy players and not worry about us going for the air. Or if they have super human players like the Brazilian defenders, they shut us down both ground and air. It's always an option taken away from us.
Like I said,you don't cut off your own legs just because there are people that can run faster. Why take away options in the air just because there are teams that are strong in that catagory? Do we only play those teams with 6 feet average height? Let me take a step back. Do they only have gigantic players? Best players of countries like germany or norway are just little above average height anyway, if you have tall attackers, you force them to use shittier but taller defenders....
I'm saying there doesn't appear to be a benefit to playing taller players up front. The WC was an example as almost all of the goals from open play came from the ground. Where it really matters is set pieces. However, if we play tall players up front who are also strong and good with the ball at their feet (like Ibra), then it's fine because they'll be marked by taller but worse defenders which gives us a new dimension in attack. But the aerial option is not a good one.
If you only play short players upfront, you are certainly limited to play the ball on the ground. Be it Messi, Aguero, Tevez, Saviola and Lavezzi ... they are all supporting strikers. You have to use them. But the center forward should be someone capable to ALSO win headers. No one is asking for someone the size of Carew, Crouch or Drogba. But somoene who can have the central defenders worried of their positioning in case there is an air ball. Argentina is suffering from quality center forwards. Crespo is still worldclass, but he won't make it in top form in 2010. So then what? Drop him? I think that using Crespo thru out the WCQ is a must. Hopefully Basile's new team will learn to play on the ground and have someone like Crespo hunting for headers/diagonals/2nd balls. In the meantime, and once the team is "oiled" you can start testing other players that can be useful as center forwards. Options will depend on how they are doing in the next 3 years ... possibly: Pavone, Denis, Milito, Cavenaghi. But you certainly can try to win a WC with a 1.60 mt CF. My prediction is that you will come "short". .
That argument works on offense. 'Lets just do what we do best, attack on the ground' is a reasonable argument. No need to put a Crouch type when we have a Messi and a Tevez and an Aguero who are much better and will drive the defenses crazy. But it is on defense that I think we need the height. You have to have the versatility to defend whatever the opposition throws at you. So, I think having height in the back is a necesary part of a well balanced defense, just as much as having speed, tackling ability etc.
I think you're using the word "tall" and "aerial option" interchangeably when they're not. Crouch is "tall" but not an "aerial option". If we use a "tall" player who is strong and holds the ball well, such as Ibra, we will indeed have a new dimension in attack. However, if we use a "tall" player with the intent of using him as an "aerial option" I don't think it will be particularly effective. Italy and France both had tall men up front, but where did their goals come from?
We need certain quality in the back to defend against taller attackers, same goes the other way around. If we possess more aerial threat, our opponents will have to adjust their lineups and strategies accordingly. Going through the air is an option. With what we've got right now, that option is missing. Our opponents could focus on cutting off our ground routes because they knew we cannot process the ball in the air. In other words, once their defense locked up all the ground routes, the initiative is taken away from us even if we still had possession. Also you're looking at a small section while analyzing the whole picture. Height is not just for heading the ball. It's for controlling bigger 3D space around the player. The taller one is, the easier for him to receive passes in the air while under pressure from opponents. How he processes the chance is a whole different animal.
Agreed. Like it or not, the Europeans have changed the dynamics of the game. To really compete in the world Cup, Argentina needs fast, athletic defenders who can cover ground quickly and out muscle opposing strikers. It may not be pretty, but it is the new game now. Also, mixing up the slower possession passing game with quick counters or (dare I say it) the long ball is essential in the modern game. One tall target man would give Argentina options. A quick ground game, with the threat of an aeral and or long ball threat would keep defenses guessing, and make Argentina less predictable. The game has become faster and more athletic....Brazil realized this and adapted.
Thats correct, they've taken the game backwards as far as I'm concerned. What was once the beautiful game is now brawn over skill. Really sad to be honest but I'm South American, proud and biased. I've also wondered why we've never taken advantage of our obvious speed and not go over the top of defenses. I would never want to see Argentina become a long ball team by any means but it could be so easy to catch defenders flat footed. Throw that in with what you suggested of switching up tactics and it could work. Unfortunately El Coco has shown a reluctance to change.
if brawn is superior, why shouldn't we play that way? if skill is superior, then there's no problem at all.
Rather, I'm more in favor of putting all the players on weight training programs so they can add about 10 more pounds of muscle. Seriously. These guys are hella skinny. Brawn should come from all the players. And not all tall forwards are strong.
Im going with Higuain as a CF hes 184 and speedy which is a great combination for any defense to handle! if i was the coach i would start giving this kid some playing time! and have Pavone start since hes 25 and experienced enough to start! as for the strategies i do wanna see Argentina play a 3-3-1-3 with Lavezzi, Pavone, Messi up front! and Aguero could come off the bench and dont forget Di Maria hes having a great season with Benefica! hell even Milan are starting to shit bricks from this kid! Defense? I do wanna see the wall back! Deme and the Wall would be great! i know Samuel is not in his best form but his experience and hes still putting on some nice performances whenever he plays for Inter despite the fact that i think Mancini is a complete idiot! Samuel deserves a start over any of the other CB's that they have and everytime they play him he performs well! so who will i count on? Deme, Samuel, Garay, Gonzalo! others like Fazio, Palleta, Gioda can all be considered for the olympics and be tested there! Millito wont be in my plans! Diaz maybe! wing backs? Arca is my top choice right now! Ferrari is my right one and untill these guys i mentioned play together i doubt if we'll have a great complete game with no mistakes from any position, but if Heinze, Burdisso, Insua are gonna be sticking around then ill puut my money on Germany for the next WC
I'm also thinking that Crespo will make it to the WC. At the end of this season, we're just two more away from the next one. So he may make it.
Argentina played nice, problems they have always show up, never put the goals in. If I'm not mistaken the Russian ownership, really puts a damper on trying out players for the world cup, you get nice friendlies, but I still cringe at the thought of Maxi Rodriquez happening again. We need a tall striker up front, no we need two (one for sub), and both have to be world class, ala Henry or Crespo. We need them fast. Lets pray we discover one. Btw I'm back from Argentina , and have pictures of the Bonbonera and stuff. Didn't take to many pictures of River, because I was in the month of turmoil after the Hincha BS, I was sad the whole month for River.