Argentina : Copa America 2019 discussion

Oh my God!!!! We can analyze this defeat as much as we want, but we didn’t get 2 clear-cut penalties— clear as day.

This was robbery.

 

No we didn't, let's not turn into England trying to mask their deficiencies with loser moral victories.

 

Well, we had good centrales. Otamendi was playing right back. Samuel could not play there. The criminal offense was not playing the spine of Inter (Samuel, Zanetti, Cambiasso) and adding Zabaleta as the other back. Then pick Demichelis or Burdisso for the other central.

Zabaleta - Samuel - Demichelis - Zanetti
-Cambiasso - Mascherano

That should have been our defense.

With that we could even afford to play Veron as the other midfielder. But I would have put another hard box to box mid like Enzo.

Forwards.

Messi - Higuain - Di Maria

Diego went for glamour and the rest is history.

This for me is the worst tournament cause I think we were at our peak and it was wasted by being stupidly optimistic.

 

Yea, I’m gonna go grab some dinner, have a drink and unwind. Unlike previous times, I’m not sadden by this, it has more anger than anything. We really did play with courage and I am proud. We should go out and win the third place match.

I’ll be back later and probably discuss who I’d want back and not. Goodnight or morning or day whatever part of the world you guys are from.

 

You’re trippin, dude if you don’t think we outplayed them. They were on their heels and you could hear the crowd jeering for them to do something. You could see the second goal for them was a relief.

 

We hit the post/bar twice, had 2 clear cut penalties denied, had 2 balls across the face of goal just needing a tap-in, had 14 shots or something, and their 2nd goal came when our players heard a whistle and stopped after it should have been a penalty for us.

If that is not dominating them for long periods, then I don’t know what is.

Also, Casemiro and Dani Alves being allowed to foul and not get any cards.

 

How is Palacios? I forgot this team was missing him Battagalia and Kannemann. If Palacios was playing don't think we would have seen Acuna. One surprise of this tournament was actually Foyth. Hes great with the ball and if he can clear out those boneheaded plays he will be great

 

Yeah, he's a surprisingly very clever dribbler. Unfortunately, that's probably why he tried to dribble 2 Brazilians out of the back with nobody behind him. Wasted skill on a central.

 

Can someone translate/summarize, please?

Google Translate is giving weird translations.

TyC Sports:

Messi y su continuidad en la Selección Argentina: "Si tengo que ayudar de alguna parte lo voy a hacer"
Más allá del dolor por la eliminación de la Copa América, la Pulga aseguró que ve "una buena camada" en el horizonte y aseguró que está dispuesto a dar una mano en el camino a Qatar 2022.
Lionel Messi lamentó la eliminación de la Selección Argentina en la Copa América tras la derrota por 2-0 ante Brasil, pero a la vez se mostró ilusionado con el porvenir y aseguró estar dispuesto a "ayudar" en lo que viene, con la revancha continental en 2020 y el comienzo de las Eliminatorias rumbo a la Copa del Mundo de Qatar 2022.



"Empieza algo nuevo, lindo. Viene una buena camada, importante, que demostró en esta copa que quiere a la Selección y que hay futuro. Yo me encontré muy bien en el grupo. Si tengo que ayudar de alguna parte lo voy a hacer", afirmó la Pulga en medio de fuertes críticas al arbitraje del ecuatoriano Roddy Zambrano.


Además, el capitán albiceleste agregó: "Ojalá se respete a estos chicos porque hicieron un trabajo enorme, un sacrificio muy grande. Es el futuro y podemos estar tranquilos de que Argentina tiene para seguir creciendo".



Por último, el crack rosarino analizó el 0-2 en el Mineirao. "Ellos se encontraron con un gol de la nada en una jugada aislada. Más allá de eso lo intentamos siempre, no nos generaron y tuvimos ocasiones. Pegamos dos tiros en los palos más los penales que no nos cobraron", concluyó.

 

Some of you are going overboard, must be the heat of the moment but in what match did we outplay Brazil? They were better than us the first 15 minutes to set their confidence for the match, when they went up after an absolute masterpiece of a play by Dani Alves, they did what big teams at matches of this magnitude have always done - start managing the game.

VAR should not be used as an excuse. I mentioned this last year during the World Cup, it is being used by teams to confound when they need a lifeline. The trip on Aguero may have been a penalty but it is extremely difficult to get that call when the player is nowhere near the ball at play. I also can't believe that for the second goal Gabriel Jesus both outran and outmuscled our defenders.

We lacked precision in the final quarter of the field, almost all of our chances came from flashed of individual greatness by Messi, Lautaro, Aguero or De Paul. It was a big mistake to bring in DiMaria for Acuna, the offense hardly improved and the defensive work rate went away, an even bigger mistake to bring in LoCelso, completely invisible, for DePaul.

As for Messi, yes he showed glimpses of absolute brilliance such as that outrageous play around minute 32 of the first half, and the shot that hit the post in the second half, but he is a player that for Argentina is almost always at a different wavelength with the rest of the team. It could be that he operates at a higher revolution but by now he should have learned to adjust to his teammates. Instead it is always the same, an approximation of what could be that never actually materializes. As a contrast, I feel that the performance today by Alves is what Pele would look like if he was brought in a time machine to play, a cut above. I also get a sense that by being deferential to the living legend, players do not express themselves to their fullest. Let's hope he is given a sabbatical from the NT, with the possibility of recalling him for the World Cup only if it's the right thing for the team.

All that said, there are many positives to take from this tournament and from this match. I think it points to forming a core of younger players who will be a backbone for this WC cycle, in particular Foyth, Tagliafico, Paredes, Acuna, De Paul, Dybala and Lautaro, hopefully Lo Celso can recover from an awful display at this tourney. I don't feel that Pezzella is anything special to wear the jersey and the search must begin for a young centerback that can show composure at the international level. But at least we now have a promising core and a sense of direction on how this team should play, whether Scaloni stays or not.

 

Thank You

 

Tyc Sports:

Agüero, tras Brasil-Argentina: "Nos vamos calientes"
El Kun se sumó a las
quejas por el arbitraje y reclamó por la falta de intervención del VAR: "Yo sentí el golpe que Dani Alves me da por atrás, no sé por qué no se revisó. Y la otra (jugada) fue peor todavía".

Sergio Agüero habló después de la derrota de la Selección Argentina frente a Brasil y también apuntó contra el arbitraje del encuentro: "En este partido y el anterior hemos mejorado un montón y Brasil tampoco hizo mucho. Los dos goles vienen de una contra, el segundo gol fue polémico, siento un golpe de Dani Alves por atrás y ahí viene el gol. Juan (Foyth) se queda parado pensando que el árbitro lo iba a parar".



Sobre si existe una mano negra detrás de las polémicas, el Kun acusó: "Creo que sí, porque el VAR funcionó muy bien hasta hoy. Increíble, nosotros estando en la cancha no prestamos atención a esas cosas, yo sentí el golpe que Dani Alves me da por atrás y Leo (Messi) encima intenta darme el pase a mí, no sé por qué motivo no se revisó. Nos vinieron a explicar antes de la Copa que el VAR se usaba en jugadas de posible penal y si terminaba en gol. El árbitro dijo me avisan que no hay nada, en ese momento él quizás no lo ve. A nosotros nos dijeron que el VAR sería un quinto árbitro en el caso de que no la vean. Y la otra (jugada), peor todavía. Nos vamos calientes porque por ahí perdíamos, no pasa nada, pero las cosas deberían ser correctas".

Sobre el juego, expresó: "La sensación no es buena, pero estoy contento por el esfuerzo que han hecho todos. No se dio y ahora hay que seguir. Tuvimos en el primer tiempo la del palo y dos o tres más no tan claras pero sí peligrosas, y después la de Leo en el palo. Son cosas que pasan, por ahí entran todas y después nada. No hay que reprocharnos nada, hicimos lo que había que hacer y nos vamos con tristeza".

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Mirando hacia el futuro, Agüero repasó: "Fue todo muy nuevo, nos vamos la mayoría con una buena sensación. Hay compañeros que no conocía, ellos son el futuro de la Selección. Tienen que estar tranquilos, en algún momento esto va a cambiar". Y sobre la próxima Copa América, indicó: "Esperemos, falta un año... Pero contento porque se va a hacer en Argentina y una parte en Colombia, creo que todos deseamos ganar una copa con la Selección y espero que sea pronto. Me voy muy feliz porque todos me trataron muy bien, son unos compañeros increíbles. Es un nuevo ciclo, si estoy o no estoy, ellos son el futuro".


————
Aguero also implying cheating as well, if I am reading this correctly.‌

 

Some conclusions about the players from this copa...

Best players:

-Paredes convinced me he can be the 5 of the team, I did not have faith in him at all but he proved me wrong.

-De Paul a very pleasant surprise. How the hell is he still in Udinese???

-Lautaro. A beast. Fights for every ball. Has to start every game from here to the end of times.

-Agüero. Ok, not really that great a copa but wanted to point out that he ran more today than (probably) what he ran the entire last year. Good for him.

-Foyth, a divisive player, was good today IMO. He marked Everton out of the game. I'd keep him as 4 as long as we don't produce any top player in the position.

Players with open credit:

-Tagliafico. Didn't have a good copa, but we simply don't have anyone better than him.

- Lo Celso. The biggest disappointment. Played out of position, I know. But a top 5 midfielder from la liga should show more.

-Acuña. He gives his everything, but there is a reason why he's a sub at sporting: he isn't that good. Still, I would keep him as a role player.

-Armani. He was ok. Literally didn't have anything to do in any of the 5 goals we conceded during this copa. I'm ok with keeping him as starter as long as Rulli or Benítez are still out of the radar of the coach.

Players that should just be dropped:

-Pezzella. Disaster of a CB. Doesn't have a single strong point. No wonder his club almost got relegated, he's simply too average.
-Otamendi and Di María. They are simply past it.
-Saravia, Suárez, Guido Rodríguez. They simply don't have the level to be in this team.

 

Good on the players for speaking out against this armed robbery

 

We outplayed them to the point that they let us outplayed them, and never beyond that. As we can now tell, it was not going to be enough.

 

Brazil vs Chile would be a disgusting final. I might actually have to root for Chile in that case.

 

Sorry but that's silly. So they just "let us" hit the post twice?
Brazil sustained this victory exclusively on their 4 defenders + Jesus up front. Argentina absolutely won the midfield battle. Arthur and Casemiro didn't have a good game. Paredes-De Paul-Messi dictated everything there.

 

That's not what I wrote, you figure it out. Messi had moments of inspiration, he cranked it on for about 12 minutes midway in the first half, but he didn't dictate anything. Coutinho's performance is more like dictating a game.

 

Lmao coutinho dictated the game? Ok going to bed now.

 

I already do.

 

The brutal reality is that , as at the world cup, we have won 1 game out oif 4 at an international tournament. At least at the world cup we lost to Croatia and France, here we have failed to beat Colombia, Paraguay and just about the most ordinary Brazil team you will ever see. We scored 3 goals, ine which was a oen and another due to a goalkeeping error. Now Messi, Aguero and ADM will retire, we have no decent defenders or a goalkeeper and a manager who is out of his depth. I think we are going to suffer a lot in the next few years.

 

1-If you paid attention to Messi’s post-game interview he said he’s going to continue on, he sees a good generation and are basically willing to fight for the short. So no, Messi is not going to retire.

2- No promising defenders... Okay. Perhaps you don’t follow Argentine football closely.... The likes of Cristian Romero who was purchased by Juve is considered one of the best young defenders in the Serie A. People rave about him. Nehuén Pérez, who was a STANDOUT and a leader of the recent U20s, a born leader. Cholo and Atletico Madrid have already brought him over. Foyth, who impressed many of us.

3- Goalkeeping department. The likes of Musso, Benitez will surely be looked at.

Even though the U20s fell short, it is still a talented group and the U17’s are quite good too under Aimar.

Perhaps you don’t watch Argentine football or follow the players home and abroad maybe you watch a few friendlies a year and see some bad results and call it doom and gloom, I don’t know...

For example, if you had followed De Paul’s progress with Udi, you would’ve known he is capable of what he did. He was the heart and so of that side. He had 9 goals and 8 assists. Many of us around here discuss what our players abroad are progressing on a weekly basis. We talk about goals, assists and how they are doing.

We also can discuss the players how players are doing at home. We are here for you, my friend. Don’t think it is doom and gloom. We are Argentina, no matter how bad you think things are getting, we will have players who flourish.

but what I saw from this group was a team that grew after the first couple of games. Youngsters got better, and there are players who will be added to this group that can make us a very strong team.

Drop by more often.

 

Oh okay.