Did you read what I wrote above? I wasn't trying to insult anyone, in fact I have never used the word 'gringo' to insult anyone... I've had many "american" (let's use that terminology since you were so offended by the other) friends, and thay have not taken it the wrong way, many were proud to say tehy were "gringos"... but hey, if someone has predispositioned your mind into saying that that name has a distinct meaning, and blocked yourself off from thinking it could be somthing else, so be it... hey wait a minute, doesn't that sound familiar?? hehe oh, and can you seriously tell me you have never said something is 'european' or 'african'... but when have you said somthing is 'american' refering to the continent? or heck, if you wanna take it farther said something was 'north american' refering also to mexico and canada?.... exactly...
"Si El Norte Fuera El Sur" Ricardo Arjona Great tune with a message. El norte sus McDonald's, basketball y Rock'N Roll Sus topless, sus Madonas y el abdomen de Stallone Intelectuales del bronceado, eruditos de supermercado Tienen todo pero nada lo han pagado. Con 18 eres un niqo para un trago en algzn bar Pero ya eres todo un hombre pa' la guerra y pa' matar Viva Vietnam y que viva Forest Gump Viva Wall Street y que viva Donald Trump Viva el Seven Eleven. Polvean su nariz y usan jeringa en sus bolsillos Viajan con marihuana para entender la situacisn De este juez del planeta que lanza una invitacisn Cortaselo a tu marido y ganaras reputacisn. CORO: Las barras y las estrellas se adueqan de mi bandera Y nuestra libertad no es otra cosa que una ramera Y si la deuda externa nos robs la primavera Al diablo la geografma se acabaron las fronteras. Si el norte fuera el sur serman los Sioux los marginados Ser moreno y chaparrito serma el look mas cotizado Marcos serma el Rambo mexicano Y Cindy Crawford la Menchz de mis paisanos Reagan serma Somoza Fidel serma un atleta corriendo bolsas por Wall Street Y el Chi harma hamburguesas al estilo Double Meat Los yankees de mojados a Tijuana Y las balsas de Miami a la Habana, si el norte fuera el sur. Sermamos igual o tal vez un poco peor Con las Malvinas por Groenlandia Y en Guatemala un Disneylandia Y un Simsn Bolivar rompiindo su secreto Ahm les va el 187, fuera a los yankees por decreto. CORO: Las barras y las estrellas se adueqan de mi bandera Y nuestra libertad no es otra cosa que una ramera Y si la deuda externa nos robs la primavera Al diablo la geografma se acabaron las fronteras. (Se repite 2 veces) Si el norte fuera el sur, serma la misma porquerma Yo cantarma un Rap y esta cancisn no existirma. -please note: not a very good translation, but I didn't do it
teach your children, grand pa and sister or brothers to call people for the right Name Is all about education and a broad Mind open to all kinds..... It has to start some where....loloy.....your beloved friends are Northamericans!
You're an American, I'm an American, we're all Americans, yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaah. Geographically a continent should be defined as a tectonic plate floating on the mantle of the Earth, and slowly moving as a unit. So there is a North American plate and a South American plate. Just because something is taught does not make it scientifically correct, it was once thought that the Earth was the center of the universe, it was flat, and Italy/France/Argentina would win the world cup. Did the USA steal the name? No we won it from England. The USA was the first independent American country. The United States of America best described the 13 previously independent colonies. A refusal to call people from the USA Americans is as stupid as not allowing people from the TWO American continents to be refered to as Americans. The only difference is that some are citizens and others are residents.
Some aren't offended by "gringo" - but I am because it was often used primarily , when I was in school in Costa Rica, to refer to white people, whether they were from the U.S. or not. You can't tell on a message board, but I'm not white, so I'm not about to claim the "gringo" label with pride. Send me any official definition of the gringo word that is actually complimentary. I'm American, however. No, I don't say things are african, unless I'm refering to cultural elements, like African music. I generally say things like, "In Europe, people often . . ." But we are arguing semantics. It's weird for me, at least, to think that you feel it's ok to call me "gringo" and yet feel insulted that I consider myself American and you to be first (though not exclusively,) from the country you're actually from. As for Arjona - when did El Norte come to mean the U.S. exclusively, instead of Canada and Mexico as well? And every old tired cliche he spouts about the U.S. - it's as bad as describing Mexico as the land of tequila and sunshine, Columbia as the jungle drugland and Brazil as the party place. Yeah, that's there - but there's a lot more. Look beyond the simple snap judgements for the reality that is the most diverse nation on this earth.
Hey, it is his song, not yours. Let's not act like we never use double standards. One day a certain term suits our needs and the next, we exclude them. This song was written for all the people who dream of coming (or who may have come already) to the great USA and asks the what if... What if the USA was down south, where they come from? The tables were turned once when illegals from the USA would illegally enter Mexican territory, Tejas as we know it today. One day, they may turn again. It (the song) has fun with the "ideals" of the USA. If you really cared for the image of the USA, as you seems to imply, then you have two ways to change the situation. One, continue the USA image that has led to this in the first place. The world had better get over it and change their ideas because we own the gold and make the rules. Two, change from within. For a nation loved and known for the ability and willingness for changes and forward thinking, it is funny how the USA didn't even warm to the idea of the metric system. I always wondered what the world would have looked like if Castro decided to play baseball in the USA instead of creating a revolution? That alone can tell you that change can happen...in our generation. Now, the case in point, America, I used to care. Now, it doesn't bother me.
I assume that you've met all 300 million Americans. If not that's a pretty ignorant and stupid statement. I'm from the United States. I am an American. I am very interested in what is happening all over the world.
Warning, the following is slightly off topic, but is related to the subject at hand. There is an African country called Congo. It's people are Congolese. There is another country that used to be named Zaire. It recently changed its name to Democratic Republic of Congo. Are the people from this country also Congolese? If this is the case, how can you tell what country someone is from when they say they're Congolese?
To quote the Reneck man himself, Jeff Foxworthy; "There are rednecks everywhere in this country, no matter where you are."
You're correct about the German part, the language always refers people from the USA as Amerikaners, such as in the phrase "bist du amerikaner" (Are you an American?) also they refer to the USA as Amerika (sp? auf deutsch). Then again German is the lazy and angry version of English...
I think it's been said here many times that we in the north don't really care. It is understood pretty much anywhere in the world when someone refers to someone as an American, they are usually talking about someone from the United States. It's not our fault...if it makes you feel better to call us North American and yourself an American, go for it! Just to be too surprised when that European asks you what state your from! Now I always wondered what Mexicans must feel about being called a Central American everytime thhey talk about Mexico on Sky news!
So if the entire world likes to kill people means that killing people is correct? I don't mind what the majority does if it's not good. I've already done what you say about talking with europeans. They always think I'm talking about USA so then I explain why I'm american in the correct sense. They say american because they are used to it. Most contact europeans have with the new world is through tourism, business travels (mostly to USA) and TV (where you find 80% US productions) so I understand why they talk that way. They just refer to US people as US people refer to themselves. They hardly ever hear the real terminology used since always in the rest of America (the 'continent'). For the same reasons, some people here is starting to call americans to US people and not to themselves (altough they are still very few). That's the first step in losing an identity. Language is very powerful. America main significance should always be the continent. USA was the first country I know, but the continent came before along with the use of american to refer to people from ALL the zone. "XX of YY" => XX belongs to YY "United States OF America" => the country belongs to America. So USA is not America. And the Arjona song is crap. That idiot seems to see in black and white.
Actually, this is an interesting case in point. Referring to Americans (that is, people from the US) as gringos might be uncontroversial in some contexts but it certainly is not in others. For example, if you use it among a group of your fellow Venezuelans, it might pass without comment, but if you apply it to a group of Americans, the chances of somebody being offended are pretty high. And that’s because it’s not infrequently employed with the intent to be offensive. (Even here, that’s not always the case. For example I’ve always thought the screen name Gringo Tex was pretty cool, but that’s a name he chose for himself and that always makes a difference.) Whether you’re being honest when you say you don’t mean anything offensive by it or not is almost beside the point (and your claim that “it inspires no historical/political debate” is fascinating, in the Mr. Spockian sense of that word). Your intent is only a minor component of what the word means, once it’s been uttered in a given context. The prevailing understandings of the “audience” (those that hear/read you use it) actually have a more important determining effect on the meaning of any word. The same goes for “American”. Despite assertions made in this thread, the great majority of the world will think only of US citizens when the hear somebody say “American”. The fact that this is the dominant meaning derives from history, which has provided the US with substantial control over mass media and, therefore, the power to substantially control what the consensus is regarding the meaning of “American.” The view that this term ought to include all the residents of North and South America might make a certain amount of sense, but it’s a minority view and it will apply only in specific contexts until the world changes. I told somebody else that my first inclination was to respond to Chinofan’s post jokingly, by saying that if he wants the name so much he needs to come up here and get it. That’s not too far from the truth, actually.
I don't need to go and "get it". I already "have it". The problem is you (plus most of the rest of the world) don't see it. Here America is always used as the continent and people in it. That still never changed despite of media. Because mass media is a recent thing in history. We always knew you were wrong. The same way USA took the name for them we can take the name 'back' for us (in a licit way). In some point in history, the number of people that used american to refer to an US person was a minority (US people). We may be a minority now but we are right. We have more justifications to want to be called american not only by ourselves than you. Not just lazyness or whatever reasons. It's not very diplomatic to say USA stole the name America but that's not too far from the truth. Thanks to media now we realise about that. It's already done but can be changed.
There is nothing that prevents you from calling yourself an American. There is also nothing that prevents you from asserting that it is legitimate to do so, nor is there anything that prevents you from asserting that it somehow wrong that when most of the world uses the word "American" they think of citizens of the US. However, the meaning of (almost) any word is determined by consensus among the speakers of the language from which it derives. Thus, at this point, your definition of "American" is at best a minority view, and a perfect example of this is that it will continue to require further explanation by you whenever you attempt to use it in the sense you're arguing for, if you hope to be understood. That will change only if and when the majority consensus changes. These days, that will depend in large part upon mass media. In terms of the way languages work, this nonsense about the "right" or "correct" or "justified" meaningof the word, or for that matter the suggestion that anybody "stole" the name from anybody else is just that: nonsense.
First In the 18th century ""United States"" was an original and creative name. Creative in the truest sense of the word. This name has become so inspirational that others have adopted it. The story of the American Revolution is a very touching and inspiring tale (ask Louis XVI and the revolutionaries of France) to which the name can be attributed. How often is it important for someone from South America to identify themselves by their continent as opposed to their national origin? Isn't it much more useful to call yourself a Boilivian?
It only seems to be important on BigSoccer and university campuses. No Vietnamese ever called me 'gringo'
My .04 cents: 1) Gringo: I think the use of the name Gringo will offend lots of people. Specially because it relates more to the color of your skin than nationality. 2) America: The problem is that there isn't another name to name USA peoples in the english language. It would take a Spanish speaking Country to become a superpower in order to shove the name "estadounidenses" to the rest of the non-spanish-speaker world. And that is not happening anytime soon. Being a superpower and controlling the media is not that much of a factor with the word american. Remember, the US media will never convince the rest of the world that football should be called soccer. The world knows that word from the US media, but they are not going to convince FIFA to change their name to FISA. Even if Mexicans and Central Americans take over the USA, most likely the language of choice would remain english. Therefore, they still would use the term american to call themselves. In the meantime, USA peoples are americans to everybody else but to Spanish-Speaking countries, including maybe Spain. 3) Can we go back to the Football/Soccer controversy?
Possibly, but the US media rarely mentions soccer, whereas references to America and Americans are rather more frequent, so IMO that's hardly a reasonable comparison.
Monroe Doctrine well, you are in the American sphere of influence, but then again, so is the rest of the world. Maybe we should call ourselves "New Romans"
New Romans you, Vespuccians us all, I like it! I think there's no doubt that the REAL football is 'soccer', not the rugby-like thing. The 'american' football uses much more hands than feet. As someone said, american rugby would be better. 'gringo rugby' even better Gringby? About America. The problem is that if we accept what is happening now, then we would be the only continental people in the world that has no name for their continent. If you choose America the it conflicts with USA. If you choose South America, still conflicts with USA. So how do you resolve the conflict? change the name of the continent or change the 'name' of the country? I think it's obvious. What's more logical is to change the way you talk about the country. Should always be said USA not America. Someone said once that latin america is the backyard of USA. It seems that is really true from USA point of view.
Yes, I agree with the soccer being rarely mentioned. However, my point is still valid, the US media makes lots of references about football (gridiron) in movies, television, Super Bowl, etc. The rest of the world is never going to accept calling gridiron football as just football. Most likely, they will say American football or American rugby. For some reason, Japan, which doesn't have its own brand of football, calls FIFA football, "Soka" Which, I guess they learned from the US, not from England.
I don't relate it to skin color, you can be an afriocan american 'gringo' in my book, but whatever.. I've really never understood that whole 'pollitical correctness'... but than again I live in a country where basiclly anyone that has at least 2 generations of ancesters has slave blood flowing through their veins... I'm white(ish), one part of my family is extremely white, others are black, others are 'guajiros' (indigineous) so the concept saying a word with 'malicious racial intent' that will offend someone to the point of tears is beyond my grasp... of course I understand the scars of racism are more deeply rooted in the States (i'm not that big of a moron). At the end of the day I won't get offended by the narrow use of the word 'american' but i'll still fight for my right... Oh, and to the person who said something about saying that I'm a Bolivian, I hope they meant to make a general point, cause otherwise they eed to read a little better (nothing agaisnt bolivians, just clarifying) PS: Is racism so bad, that now white people get offended as well??? thank god I live in a country were race is not an issue... it all revolves around money heheh PS2: Femfa, see how many people have used the word European to describe a person?