Arena on Adu (and other Nats news)

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by MattMathai, Dec 22, 2005.

  1. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But the issue I see here is what type of a wing position we are talking about. Adu played a couple of games on the left side in the 2003 WYC ....... and he played great. Ok, so those were kids, right? Fair enough. However, the fact of the matter is THAT team played with 4 in the back, and it limited what Adu had to do in terms of chasing players back to his own endline. He became a great asset in that tournament defensively, being used as an outlet to receive the ball from the backs under pressure, and he consistently used his ball skills to be able to "break the press", much like a point guard in basketball. The problem I see is that people expect him to be the rebounder, outlet passer, and shooter. If he can't be all 3, he's apparently a bust. With 3 in the back, Adu can't play the wing, I agree. With 4 in the back, all bets are off. I think he'd do wonderfully well there, even if it's not his BEST position.
     
  2. owendylan

    owendylan Member

    May 30, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Well why didn't you say so the first time. . . I won't disagree with this.
     
  3. Parmigiano

    Parmigiano Member

    Jun 20, 2003
    What he said.
     
  4. nick

    nick Member+

    Nov 23, 1998
    Potomac Falls, Va
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thats true of every position on the field. In fact, many skills are applicable to almost every position and should be manifest ala the Total Football of the famous Dutch teams of the 70s.

    However, some skills are more central to effectively playing a particular position like a Wing verses a Center Midfielder or a Target Forward. In addition, most players gravitate to a couple of positions where the nature of the position aligns with their personal tendancies and skills.

    At his current level of development (thats not to say it could change completely within the next few years - He's only 16) he just doesn't have the up and down workrate and defensive umph to make an effective winger especially in a 3-5-2. Nowak says as much everytime Gross or Dema start while Adu remains on the bench.

    I'm not saying Adu can't play Wing, I'm just saying that isn't where I feel his strengths are and the more competative the team, the higher the expectations for a player to demonstrate the skills consistent with core requirements of the position.

    This is why despite all the makeup verbage in the off season, I still think Freddie is going to struggle to get the amount of playing time he feels he should. Freddie has improved to the point where he's become a real dilemma for Nowak. Freddie is good enough skills to play but he just isn't quite good enough to beat United's starters.

    And if this is a problem with United I just can't see how he's going to make the case for the Nats.
     
  5. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

    Sep 2, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    not specific to this world cup or anything, but picture this...

    Adu, gets possession, beats his man on the dribble, starts running at the back line with the ball

    Meanwhile, McBride, with back to goal is sliding to the off side of the field looking for a combination, DMB is making a hard slashing run across the defense, Donovan breaks in diagonally from the right and Convey is making a 60 yard run from the back, behind Freddy, to the right side that Donovan just vacated...

    I'm liking Freddy to make a good pass in that situation
     
  6. highlander

    highlander Member

    Nov 9, 2002
    Springfield, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to onefineesq again.
     
  7. voyager

    voyager Member

    Jun 10, 2004
    Frederick, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    This is fantastic analysis and discussion. And not getting out of hand, either. Keep it up.

    This sure beats the hell out of any mention of Freddy on the Nats board. ;)
     
  8. JoeW

    JoeW New Member

    Apr 19, 2001
    Northern Virginia, USA
    1. I think there has been a plan. In fact, I think part of the problem has been that too much focus on sticking with the "plan". He was slotted in as an outside midfielder in year one. Preseason results weren't promising. So he was slotted in as a backup forward--to come in when there is space in back and opposing legs are tired. But that meant too few opportunities to play PLUS the team needed an A-mid so he got a trial at A-mid and impressed. We are probably too guilty of trying to find a "plan" for Adu rather than just playing him and recognizing no matter where he plays, he'll be inconsistent, have some gaps and make some mistakes but he'll play, do some wonderous things and eventually his position will be clear.

    2. I do think Adu has been told and given feedback. BUT...
    --Adu tends not to seek it out from Nowak. This can't be a one-way street. When he has problems or questions, Adu has to approac his coach with them--Nowak isn't a mind-reader.
    --Adu can't use the press or his Mom or his peeps as conduits for going to Nowak directly. That's been a huge issue here.
    --a coach can't focus on him solely.

    Nowhere (not even in Adu's comments), not from those who have watched the team or talked to other players has anyone said that Nowak doesn't approach players or communicate with them--he has a good reputation at doing both.

    3. I think a big issue here is Adu has a very simplistic and naive and self-centered view of the world. Duh--most 17 year olds do (heck, most 22 year olds do). He gets player of the week one game or a goal of the week and figures "therefore I should start the next week." This approach completely ignores the tactical demands of the opponent, the team's game plan as well as the other players. When I've coached U12 players I run into this all the time "why did you take me out coach--I was playing well!" "Well Aaron, we need to play everyone on the roster". Does anyone else see some reasons why this isn't automatically so? That's like saying that Troy Perkins should start in goal b/c he had a good week of practice. Well, maybe so did Rimando. Or maybe the next match distribution is critical and therefore Rimando is a better fit than Perkins. But Adu doesn't get that. He thinks if he was playing more, he'd be on the USMNT. But that assumes that either Donovan and Reyna (and possibly Martino and Dempsey and Gaven) were moved to other positions or that he's better right now as an A-mid than all of them or all but one of them OR, he's not thinking about the competition. Only that if he plays well he should be on the squad.

    Playing and training young players is challenging. NE and LA (under Schmid) both have good reputations for growing talent but neither has any kind of track record with teens (Nicol hasn't even drafted teenagers). I suspect that's b/c both didn't want the baggage that comes with a teenager. Whether that's Quaranta picking a fight with Eddie Pope at practice, Beckerman hitting the party scene in Miami, Convey tuning out or doing jumping jacks in games, Adu pouting when he doesn't start and then going to the press, or a host of others (like Barclay and Salas) figuring they've got it made and coasting--not working on their games to improve: lots of pro coaches in MLS are probably not eager to take on a talented teenager. B/c that road to success is paved with a lot of potholes.
     
  9. FC Tallavana

    FC Tallavana Member+

    Jul 1, 2004
    La Quinta
    What he said about what he said.
     
  10. BudWiser

    BudWiser New Member

    Jul 17, 2000
    Falls Church, VA
    We still don't have a plan though, right Joe? I'd argue that you make a plan and stick to it. That assumes you feel you know what you're doing from the getgo/have confidence in you plan.

    I do think Adu has been told and given feedback
    He is and he has, but he's gotten frustrated because I believe he doesn't understand the feedback. He's confused. Maybe they cleared things up in the offseason meetings-he said he was happy with what was talked about-but I don't know wasn't there.

    I think a big issue here is Adu has a very simplistic and naive and self-centered view of the world
    Absolutely. That's what I would expect from a teenager.
     
  11. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So what do we see happening from this point on? It seems like everyone generally understands the limitations of Adu at this point, but also realizes the potential if used in the "proper" way (whatever that means to each of us). I must say that I am pessimistic about anything actually changing next year. The same core team will be back next year, with a couple additions/changes. An earlier DCU poll showed that we the fans overwhelmingly believe that Nowak is going to stick with 3 in the back. So again, we're going to be stuck with a situation where Adu has to run windsprints to his own corner flag on the left side or be left off the starting team (especially if Esky comes back to any semblance of health). How long into the season before the next eruption?
     
  12. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

    Sep 2, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am not pessimistic about things changing because: Adu will be more mature physically and a better player, and Gomez and Moreno will be more aged. There will be plenty of opportunities to rest Gomeno and play Adu...the question is can Nowak deviate from the pattern he has set?
     
  13. highlander

    highlander Member

    Nov 9, 2002
    Springfield, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You have identified the basic problems of dealing with a 16 year old, but you haven't identified a solution for dealing with a 16 year old of Adu's stature. The question you need to ask yourself is, "How did Nowak's strategy work with Adu last year?" Afterall, Nowak is the adult and responsible for bringing perspective to the situation. Unless you want to write off Adu and trade him, you need to be honest and admit that what was done last year was not effective enough. You cannot have players talking publically about lack of playing time and wanting to be traded right before the playoffs. Nowak showed that he can work with Freddy during his first season. During the second, I think he fell short.

    The onus is on Poitr to make it work. Freddy wants to be successful. If Poitr does a better job working with him this year, it can happen. Like it or not, the adult is the one that needs to be the leader.
     
  14. owendylan

    owendylan Member

    May 30, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    I don't see anything wrong with Adu running windsprints on the left side of midfield. I know I've been one of the people saying he can't play on the wing because he's not that type of player, but he could become that type of player. especially if he wants to get playing time. Plenty of people play out of their "natural" position if it means they get on the field as anything but a part-timer. Some may think that Nowak didn't do as good a job this season with Freddy, but it is a two-way street. It can't be all Nowak, Adu has to move some also. If they go back to being the irresistible force and the immoveable object we will have the same situation as this past season which isn't good for any one, above all the team. I hope they have both learned from this. I think Nowak needs to show a little more flexibility in his coaching and Freddy needs to stop thinking it's all about him. Sure it's a little broad of a concept but it's a place to start. An example would be of Nowak giving Adu a shot on the left and Adu embracing his opportunity and not say it isn't his preferred position. He should bear down and learn what is needed to play there and do it. Remember "Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
     
  15. nick

    nick Member+

    Nov 23, 1998
    Potomac Falls, Va
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My sentiments exactly. If something doesn't change I can't believe, we won't have an eruption 8 to 10 weeks into the season.

    One of three things must change for the problem NOT to resurface. Alternative 1 is that the team's makeup changes in some fundemental way. Perhaps Gomez is injured and out for the season. Perhaps Dema and/or Gross are traded opening up a starting spot. I wouldn't put too much stock on this. In fact I would expect/hope that DCU will be stronger next season with the return of Esky, the maturation of Quaranta and the settling in of Erpen. And that doesn't cover the fact that DC may actually pickup somebody via the draft or as a discovery player that no one saw coming.

    Alternative 2 is that Adu changes his play and attitude. While I expect Adu to continue to improve, its a lot to expect a teenager, especially someone this young to gain the appropriate maturity to deal with the situation. Can Adu "embrace" a secondary or non natural position for him? If someone as relatively mature as John Harkes had problems with this its a bit much to expect Adu to handle this successfully.

    Alternative 3 is that Nowak and the coaching staff change their philosphy in how to use Freddy. If you follow anthing about Nowak you get a sence of how he likes to establish and stick to HIS system. Having said that, Nowak is supposedly the Adult in this situation and therefore is expected to show that maturity and adapability.

    Of the three solution alternatives, I have to say 3 is the most likely. However, all these solutions taken together probably don't offer more than a 40% chance of success. :(
     
  16. BudWiser

    BudWiser New Member

    Jul 17, 2000
    Falls Church, VA
  17. owendylan

    owendylan Member

    May 30, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Well saying Harkes is mature is a little bit of stretch, but it's a little misleading to say Harkes didn't embrace this secondary position. Believe Steve Sampson at your own peril. Even now he insists the debacle of '98 was not his fault. Harkes never had a problem playing right back for Arena and DCU and he never had a problem playing on the right or left flank as well. He thought his best position was in the middle but rarely if ever played there because of Etcheverry and Williams. What Harkes was was a professional who did what the coaches thought they needed him to do for the benefit of the team. He had a big ego for sure, but he didn't let it stand in the way of being successful.
     
  18. Hedbal

    Hedbal Member+

    Jul 31, 2000
    DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1. It will be interesting to see where Bruce slots Freddy in the January camp. With our top-rated USMNT left-wingers (DMB; Convey; Lewis) absent, young Fred might get some time at left wing, albeit in front of a back four, I would expect.

    2. There is something to be said for finding a way, ANY way, to get your most skillful players on the pitch at the same time. For DCU, that means Jaime, Christian, Santino, and Freddy (and maybe Benny.) And if doing this means that Freddy sees time on the wing, so be it. The first soccer I ever watched was Ajax/Holland and the "total football" concept, so I can't fathom a system where, say, a left midfielder is always a left midfielder, regardless of the situation. Across the pond, Convey is a left midfielder who if frequently in the center and even on the right, depending on the situation.
     
  19. Parmigiano

    Parmigiano Member

    Jun 20, 2003
    So you want the most promising youth prospect in the United States to learn how to play like Frankie Hejduk?

    Wow. That is sad.
     
  20. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

    Sep 2, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    well, Henry likes to initiate the attack from the wings a lot, so maybe it's not the worst skill to have
     
  21. Parmigiano

    Parmigiano Member

    Jun 20, 2003
    That's not the issue. Henry doesn't run end to end all night wasting his class as a wingback in a 352, does he?

    And if Wenger ever even thought of employing him like that, he'd have been admitted to a mental ward, let alone relieved of his coaching duties.
     
  22. Real Mobile

    Real Mobile Member

    Sep 10, 2004
    Hey Dude... Adu... what's the difference? Freddy just needs to grow some dreads and start surfing the Potomac. :rolleyes:

    I really don't like it when Frankie is used to insult players. The guy might not have the best touch, but he has been a very good player, will work his a$$ off, and can run forever. You may recall, he was a rare bright spot in that F'98 disaster.

    If you want to seriously look at Freddy playing wide MF, you might look at that guy Beckham. I don't think he found it degrading to play wide. I don't see him as a defensive monster, but he has been rather productive as a wide midfielder. If Freddy is too skilled to run, he should take up billiards.

    Playing Adu wide with three in the back raises some concerns, but formations are not so rigid that this can't be managed. A D-mid can favor Freddy's side for defensive support and Gros, or whoever is opposite, can play more defensively. This isn't U-8 Rec league with defenders nailed to the edge of their box. These guys are pros and so is Nowak. I think they'll figure it out.

    I will also say that sitting the bench in the next game after winning Player of the Week would piss me off too. Maybe I'm just immature, although it's been more than 30 years since I was 16.

    I'm not saying that it was good for Freddy to let his frustration get into the media, but his frustrations are normal. It would be goofy if he weren't frustrated. If he were happy on the bench, he might be getting ready to fight for time on his high school team instead of DCU and the Nats.

    Maybe some of you guys really knows what happens within the team, who talks to who, etc. Whatever the situation, it is PN's job to make the team work. That means being aware of your players mindset and communicating effectively to optimize performance. You're going to have your ups and downs, but PN preaches that you earn your time on the field and if Freddy gets player of the week and doesn't turn into poo in practice, he ought to start or know the reason why. Who knows all these details? Not me, but I hope they find a fix for '06! :cool:
     
  23. DigitalTron

    DigitalTron New Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    I think everyone associated with US Soccer and DC United are in agreement that Freddy's eventual position will be in the center behind a target forward and ahead of a Dmid. Whether you classify that as a forward, withdrawn forward, or an attacking midfielder, it's really just semantics. His role is that of a creator, and controller of a game. He clearly has the elite tools to exel at that role.

    In DC United's system we have Gomez, Moreno and Olsen all currently filling those roles (albeit Ben is conforming to a bit more defensive-minded part than Freddy could fill). In addition, there may be others entering the picture for playing time in these spots, despite it being the strength of DC United at the moment. If a player is good and their coach is open-minded, as I firmly believe Piotr Nowak is, then the player can always force their way into the starting lineup via strong play in practices and games. It's up to Freddy to do that, whether it's at Manchester United or DC United.

    Presently, Freddy has a sub-par committment to defense, and has shown very little ability or tactical awareness for defense, making him a one-dimensional player ... offense only. To force your way into a good team's starting lineup you need to be significantly more beneficial to the team than the other players ... and if you're defensive contribution is almost nill, you need to be truly superior to the team offensively.

    Right now Freddy shows moments of sheer brilliance offensively, but overall doesn't contribute significantly more offensively than either Gomez or Moreno, and he hasn't shown the defensive ability to displace Olsen. Remember, we also have Kovalenko who contributes a lot to both sides of the ball. So, Freddy will need to show more consistency offensively and more effort defensively before he forces Nowak to play him.

    At 'best' he will be a good second half offensive sub and starter when Gomez or Moreno isn't playing. That should give him a good deal of minutes. He has too much talent to sit the bench, but he needs more productivity to force his way into the starting lineup of most MLS teams right now. Honestly, the teams he could start for wouldn't play a style of play conducive to Freddy's, and he'd probably not develop as fast as he will in DC. He may be frustrated, but he'll eventually force his way into the lineup.

    For the United States, the 442 formation makes him much more likely to play as a 2nd forward or on the wing than in central midfield. These are places where defensive mistakes and turning the ball over are more easily tolerated, and where an occasional moment of brilliance is more rewarded. Bruce Arena knows that he only has a handful of players that can produce that moment of brilliance, but Freddy is one of those precious few.

    Arena's approach is pretty straight-forward. He brings in lots of young players with the intention of getting their feet wet in the National Camp and whetting their appetite. Then he begins indoctrinating them into his system. If they then perform well in MLS or their club league, he'll bring them back for serious evaluation. He demands certain things of his players, they know what those are, and he provides very specific roles for them. Those that are willing to accept and perform those roles play, those that intend to do their own thing, don't. I'm sure Freddy will embrace whatever role Arena asks of him. In 2010 I am confident that Freddy will have earned a broader role, but for the 2006 cycle he'll be lucky to make the team. I wouldn't be surprised to see Freddy included as the final member of the 2006 team. It will better prepare him for the pressure of the 2010 cycle. But I don't expect him to get minutes in crucial games in 2006.

    -Digital
     
  24. nick

    nick Member+

    Nov 23, 1998
    Potomac Falls, Va
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've known John Harkes for while and I think the term "relatively mature" compared to Freddy is appropriate (Of course his wife Cindy may disagree :D ).

    In no way am I a Steve Sampson supporter. He leaves alot to be desired from both a coaching and ethical perspective and I feel he was directly responsible for the debacle in 98. Anyone who has seen the video Road to 98 World Cup and read Harkes's book Captain for Life can see those issues laid out before them.

    I used the term "embrace" the position to contrast the difference between a coaches expectation of embracing a position verses a players willingness to play the role. I agree that Harkes was willing to play the positon for the good of the team, but in Sampson's mind that was not good enough, at least to make his system go.

    In the same light, Freddy could run afoul of Nowak even if he is willing to play the wing because Nowak perceives Freddy has not bought into the role with enthusiasm. A lack of workrate or being constantly out of position can look a whole lot like not embracing the position. It doesn't take a whole lot of losing before figures start getting pointed. :rolleyes:
     
  25. owendylan

    owendylan Member

    May 30, 2001
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    And you want the most promising youth prospect in the US to ride the bench and be a part-time player because better players play his preferred position. Even sadder. If Freddy learned to put half as much effort as Hedjuk does defending he will be a better player for it.
     

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