Arena on Adu (and other Nats news)

Joe, I don't disagree with this sentiment either.

However, what you have to ask yourself is if the US is tied or trailing in a game that needs a win to advance out of group play or the knockout phase, who would you rather have?

Josh Wolff or Freddy Adu?

Personally, I'd like the guy who has the potential to give that decisive pass or draw that foul that can lead to a goal. Josh Wolff usually and habitually does neither of these things well.

Freddy has yet to prove he can do it on the big stage (Senior National Team) but has done it numerous times at the youth level, despite being 4 or 5 years younger than his "peers".

Obviously Bruce Arena is a smart guy and he doesn't take wild chances like putting what will be #1 media story on the World Cup team. Freddy will have to earn his way onto that team. This camp will provide that lifeline for Freddy. it's up to him now to make the decision easy for Bruce.

 

From what I believe of "The Bruce", I believe if he shows well during a game he'll get a spot, and if he doesn't play well he won't.

I remember Beasley having a great game against Uruguay at RFK and he seemed to have a spot on the team ever since:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/soccer/national/2002-05-12-us-uruguay.htm

 

I think right now, Wolff and Adu are best when they have room--when they aren't in tight space. So in the scenario of being down a goal against Italy or the CR, I'd probably want to put on either Cunningham or Ching/Twellman.

I wouldn't be shocked if Adu makes the USMNT and turns out to be a big contributor. But not b/c he's some great individual talent--at this level he's going to contribute if he can integrate into the team scheme. Ivan Toplak (the former National team coach of Yugoslavia who also coached the SJ Earthquakes under Milan Mandaric) used to tell a story about how the most gifted soccer player technically he ever saw was a serb who could run the entire length of the field without the ball touching the grass. He said this player was so good he'd appear in circuses. But he ran out of clubs b/c he was ineffective on the field--couldn't connect with the other 9 field players. Adu isn't that bad of course (and will surely get better--he's got good vision, is a good passer technically and isn't selfish). So I guess I"m just reacting to the people who seem to think that scoring goals internationally is all about individual talent--if you're strong technically or have a bit of quickness than you're just going to rack them up like Gerd Muller or Ronaldo.

 

Adu's got space and time on the wing. And he doesn't need to be great on defense if he's being brought in to be a sub when the team's down late

FYI they listed Adu as a MIDFIELDER on the US Soccer website (probably reading too much into it but still):
http://www.ussoccer.com/news/fullstory.sps?iNewsid=287651

Interesting....

 

One thing that people need to understand is that people with Freddy's talent level get treated differently. It isn't about fairness, it is about self interest. Freddy makes sure that the media knows his options because he is incredibly worldly for a 16 year old. He plays this game very intelligently most of the time, other times his 16 year old emotions get the best of him (see first chicago playoff game).

Bruce Arena needs to captie Freddy. It may not be technically fair, but he needs to do it. How much did Steve Cherundelo or David Regis play at the last world cup? Arena needs to bring Freddy and play him, if only for a 1 minute.

I remember guys like Maradona and Cruyff during their careers. They were often unsufferable and always pains in the neck, but they also were capable of making a difference in a game that nobody else could make.

We have a chance to cap-tie someone with a possiblity of that kind of potential. Who else do we have coming up that makes special plays and KNOWS that he can make special plays at that level like Freddy? Please do not say Cunningham or Gomez. Sometimes you just have to see the forest for the trees. Freddy may not be a star now, but if a perceptive guy like Jose Mourinho is interested in him, I think it is worth getting him in the program. Remember after the Chelsea game how Mourinho praised everything about DC EXCEPT the level of ability of the players (tactically organized, hard working, fighting). The only player who's ability he commented on during his stay was Freddy's. The only player he showed an interest in was Freddy.

A captie for Freddy to the full national team would be a great side accomplishment for the national team program this world cup. We are not Brazil with several players of equal ability waiting in the wings. I want the team to play well, but Freddy is different and should be treated different. A guy like Freddy can go two ways for a coach or manager - Poitr learned that during Freddy's first two seasons with DC. Let's see how Bruce handles him.

Who knows? Freddy might even contribute. He has the ability to do so if put in the right situation. I certainly don't think that he would hurt the team.

PS. I know that this post is going to tick some people off. Flame away - it isn't like there is anything exciting going on in MLS to talk about anyway!

 

As for cap-tying Freddy, the only opportunity to do so will be at the World Cup. He won't be or can't be tied until then.

I'm not exactly clear on the rules but I believe only FIFA sanctioned tournaments or qualifiers is the only way to get cap tied. I heard in previous years that "A" International friendlies is also a way of getting cap tied. We'll definitely have one of those when we play Germany next spring before the cup.

 

I brought this up in a different thread but I would not be shocked if Adu gets a runout at outside midfield.

1. He's been a bad fit in the past, especially for Nowak's system where the outside mids need to defend, run hard, be strong off the ball--all things Adu has been weak or bad at.

2. But Adu improves tremendously EVERY year (heck-year, EVERY couple of months).

3. In Arena's 442--Adu is a better fit as an outside mid. Still a liability defensively. But he'd have space for the ball at his feet, could run at people, would serve in a lovely ball.

4. Furthermore, it's hard for Adu to be encouraged that he's going to get PT ahead of Gomez and Moreno. But I would not be shocked if Payne/Nowak told Adu he'd get a trial at outside mid with DC United: that it would increase his chances of making the USMNT, it would mean CERTAIN playing time for DCU (b/c other than Gros and than Van Sicklen, there are no outside mids for United).

5. And given that, I think that Adu is more likely a candidate for A-mid for the USMNT. Donovan is the first choice there, Reyna probably the second. But if Donovan had to play forward or Reyna holding mid, I"d rather play Adu at A-mid than Dempsey.

 

This is a great point.

I'm not sure whether Adu would be placed on the team with expectations of starting even if injuries/cards hit.

Really, Adu's selection to the team has as much to do with the health, form and composition of the rest of the team as it does with the growth he demonstrates over the next 3-6 months.

I will say that I watched the All-Star game he played in. While the game itself is meaningless as an evaluative tool, he did seem to be noticeably more muscular so, hopefully, he'll be able to ride off the challenges better.

Irrespective of the outcome, I have faith in Arena's judgement.

 

You make too much sense, Parmigiano. I read this thread from post 1, and when I read JoeW's post about the Catolica game, I was about to write the same thing that you did .......... until I read your post. But to summarize my thoughts, the fault in that game was at the feet of Nowak. To throw in at the feet of Adu just flies in the face of Nowak's ridiculously stupid substitution pattern. The reason we were even in the 2-2 position was because Nowak's first sub was a forward (Walker) for Gros, which left us with only Jaime as a natural forward up top to hold the ball. Then, as it became apparent we needed defensive help to go to 4 in the back in order to stop Catolicas wing play, he added Adu and Wilson (not as a left back, but as a winger). Stupid stupid stupid.

When you watch how Adu played with the u-20's with Rongen and the u-17's before that to an extent, he was able to duck in and out of dangerous spaces on the field, played left wing at times very well (even quite well on defense), and generally made himself a nuisance to the opposition. Now, with Sigi and with Nowak, he is completely useless at doing things that he could do 2 years ago? Nope. It's simply bad coaching. Now I'm not saying that those 2 coaches are BAD COACHES, but I'm saying that with respect to Adu, they are not using him properly and are vis-a-vis Adu, they coached badly. It's a shame too, because if Nowak could manage to fit him into the side properly, I believe that his team would be better for it.

Hopefully Arena is able to do what Nowak and Sigi weren't able to do, and what Rongen WAS able to do. I still think it's a longshot that he makes it, but I applaud Arena for giving him a shot. If Adu doesn't make it at this point, he will know that it was on his foot to do it, and he didn't get it done.

 

Actually, I would contend he is.

Freddy showed that he was superior at the younger age levels. He was faster, more skilled, and more tactical than players his age. However, he has consistently shown that he can't use those same talents against better players. The things he could get away with against inferior opponents don't work against more experienced players, and Adu is now tring to cope. Yes, he has shown improvement over the last few seasons, but he still has a ways to go before he shows the same level of talent that he showed at the youth level against actual professionals. I don't see that as a fault or an error in coaching, but a part of the learning curve that Adu has to go through to become a better player at the higher levels.

 

1. The first position that Adu was tried at with DCU was outside midfield. And after a month or so of preseason, both Adu and Nowak admitted that they needed to go with a different position. Thus the trial at forward and eventually he moved to A-mid later in the season.

2. Too much is being made of his experience with the U-20s with Rongen. That experience doesn't prove he's a good outside. What I've consistently argued about Adu is that what is generally true with teenage players--they are wildly inconsistent. For instance, he had more time practicing with the U-20's with Schmid than he did with Rongen (and remember--Rongen was originally hesitant to call him up, that's part of the reason he had so little time with Rongen's side). If Adu felt he was getting bad advice from Schmid, or was being used poorly or being put in positions where he was being set up to fail, why was he so eager to go to the U-20 WC? Why did he talk about how he was going to go there and have fun, playing flowing, free, attacking football?

3. Step back a second and look at the position you seem to be defending: that Freddy Adu was better at playing soccer 2 years ago than he is today. I'd argue that to watch him play with adults now, he's almost unrecognizable from where he was 2 years ago. He's gone through immense improvement in all aspects of his game. Would you argue that isn't true? That he's regressed? Or that he was a great winger in 2004 and just needs a new coach so that the skills he's had the past 2 years can be unleashed?

4. If Arena doesn't play him at outside midfield, does that mean that he too is coaching Adu poorly?

 

How is playing left outside mid going to increase Adu's shot at making the USMNT when he would be behind DMB for sure and probably Convey given how well he is playing for Reading (even scored a goal today). Also he would be behind a healthy JOB (big if I know) and possibly Eddie Lewis if he doesn't move to left back. I can see how it helps him with DC but not with the USMNT. Dempsey probably wouldn't play A-mid. You still have Mastroeni to play holding mid and also JOB is a possibility to play either position if healthy (once again a big if). I don't think Dempsey makes the final 23. You also have Convey as an option and DMB as a last resort. Why would these guys be over Adu? Experience, experience, experience. We will have the most internationally experienced team in Germany in US history (yeah you could say the same thing for every team going back to '94 and it would still be true). I still don't think Adu makes the final 23 this is a Brazil where you can afford to take a 17-year old Ronaldo and not play him. Except for the 3rd keeper, and everyone takes a 3rd keeper, every player on this roster has to be prepared and able to contribute and I don't see Adu as being able to do that yet.

 

Where in the heck do I seem to be defending that statement? I was making a very obviously sarcastic remark about what seems to be an all too widely believed position on the DC boards .......... that somehow he has regressed. My position is that he hasn't regressed, but that the coaching of him has been poor. As for Adu being moved from left-sided mid, yes he was moved from there. But that's because of Nowaks 3-5-2 formation, in which Adu is expected to run up and down the left wing, back to his own endline, like Beasley did. The problem is that Beasley and Adu are entirely different players, despite the fact that people seem to love to compare them at every turn.

As for Adu being eager to go to the u-20's ............. well, who at that age wouldn't? Adu is going to not go to the u-20's because he doesn't like Sigi's tactics? What do you think Adu's agent would say if Adu called him and told him "Hey, I might not play because Sigi doesn't know what he's doing." Any agent would have told him to shut his piehole and go play soccer, as well he should have. Don't be ridiculous by intimating that the guy wouldn't have gone to play with the u-20's if there was a problem with Sigi's tactics. That's reaching beyond belief.

For all the nonsense about Rongen (and he did make one of the biggest tactical blunders i've seen in the u-20's against Argentina), the fact is that the u-20 team that he coached in 2003 was better prepared and BETTER SELECTED than was Sigi's. They were more offensively cohesive and more talented up and down the roster. Sigi made the mistake of thinking that he as coach was more responsible for winning and losing than were the players, and ended up taking and playing major minutes to some guys who probably wouldn't have even been on Rongen's roster. This difference was obvious in the play of guys like Mapp and Adu. And even EJ came out in the following MLS season, playing like a beast (and he credited part of that success to realizing how good he could be from the u-20's).

Here is the problem: Nowak's first year success validated his system in his mind. The problem is that the first year success was essentially a late year run of success that was predicated almost entirely on the emergence of the last second addition new player (Gomez). So as Gomez' play deteriorated at the end of THIS season because of the hernia, Nowak was left with his wheels spinning because his vaunted system was no longer working, and he didn't know what to do. Nowak's coaching has been deficient. There .... I said it. Anyway, I'm done for the night. The back and forth with you and Jason was great, but needless to say I think both of you are dead wrong on this one. Time to finish watching my Wizards get beat up by the Lakers.

 

I could have been wrong, but my plan all along would have been to play Freddy on the wing and later switch him to the middle when/if he gets good enough to play there. He's still young enough to learn both positions.

If he makes mistakes on the wing it's of less consequence. And I'd want him on the field to make mistakes and learn, as he doesn't learn on the bench or complaining about playing time. But that's old news/debate fodder...

 

I don't disagree with any of that. But here is what I said...

"But I would not be shocked if Payne/Nowak told Adu he'd get a trial at outside mid with DC United: that it would increase his chances of making the USMNT, it would mean CERTAIN playing time for DCU (b/c other than Gros and than Van Sicklen, there are no outside mids for United)."

In otherwords, Adu is convinced that it is his "lack of playing time" that is why he hasn't been called up previously. So Payne effectively says "we don't have a lot of outside mids, we'll allow you to compete for that spot as well. That will give you the PT and visibility plus you could be playing regularly." I didn't say that if he plays outside mid, he makes the USMNT. I said that I think it was used as an argument to placate him (and he bought into it).

I don't think Freddy Adu views this in terms of the USMNT personnel--where he thinks he's better than Donovan or Reyna at A-mid. I think he thinks he is "good enough" and so therefore should be selected without thinking about the personnel.

And Onefineesq, okay, you're not arguing he's regressed. But you are arguing that he was capable of playing a fine wing at the pro level 2 years ago and the only reason he hasn't done so since then is poor coaching by Nowak and Schmid. So therefore we'll see Arena play him at wing and he'll shine--yes? If not, why? He certainly wasn't a winger with the U-17's so poor performance couldn't be attributed to "rust" if Arena decides he's no winger.

The converse is that I think Nowak has done an outstanding job developing Adu and that has shown by his impact on games and particular skills all-around. But that gets lost in the hub-bub about "I should be playing more" and "my coach doesn't understand me" stuff.

I think all of us (including Nowak and Adu) had wildly unreaslistic expectations for Adu. Nowak initially thought he'd be a more skilled version of DMB (who contributed right away b/c of his speed and defensive skills so he was a starter almost from day 1). Most of us thought "take 1/2 season to get acclimated and then we see Pele Jr." After year one it became "one year and one off-season, then we'll see Pele Jr." What's more realistic is that in a league that produces players like McBride who can score in the WC and contribute in the Premiership, you can't come in raw and earn a starting spot right away (unless you're with a very bad team). We may not be the Premiership or Serie A yet but the standard of play for MLS is just a bit stiffer than some of the Eurosnobs would acknowledge.

 

You mean the same agent who told him to shut his piehole about complaining over his playing time ::

 

I also have to agree about DMB and Adu being very different situations. One point though I believe Regis came in at the last minute on the 98 WC team.

 

Agree totally.....

One. Adu really is NOT a Left Wing. Folks keep trying to put him there because they want him on the field and he is just not as good as Gomez in the Attacking Midfielder role.

Two. For whatever reason, the US is just very deep at Left Wing with DMB, Lewis, JOB and Convey. I just can't see Adu playing ahead of these guys.

Three. If you actually try and play Adu in an Attacking Midfield role he's just not up to the level of a Donovan or Reyna.

 

A useful & accurate assessment.

Close to true, but a bit overstated. DaMarcus was raw and yet he earned a starting spot right away, on a good team. More like, it's rare for a raw player to be able to earn a starting spot right away. It must be a special raw player, and it must be a case where the player's strengths play to the specific needs of the team and to the coach's system.

 

I don't get it....why isn't he a wing?

http://www.boston.com/sports/soccer/articles/2003/12/09/theres_no_disputing_impact_made_by_adu/

Adu, who replaced the injured Arturo Alvarez on the roster, played an important role in the second-round win over Ivory Coast yesterday...Adu, who will join D.C. United next season, played on the left wing against Ivory Coast.

It blows my mind when people say categorically he can't play wing.

 

Because 1 game 2 1/2 years ago against relatively weaker opponents means nothing. How about this. Left wing is not his best position. He doesn't have the defensive ability or the speed to play on the wings against adults with a lot of experience that he will surely face in league and international play. Against other young players who he matches up with in ability he can do it although it takes time for him to adjust as it did in the game against the Ivory Coast, from that same article Adu struggled physically in the early going, but adjusted quickly, his technique and one-on-one skill breaking down the opposing defense. Argentina should approach the US with more tactical savvy than the Ivory Coast, which was weak defensively and in goal. Can he play left wing, sure he can but the team will suffer for it as he doesn't do it very well.

What makes you think that because he did it in 1 game 2 1/2 years ago he can play it well now, when he hasn't played there since.

 

Because IMO Freddy needs a clear plan. I think that's the main reason why he was upset with Nowak-he couldn't figure out where he stood and what Nowak wanted from him. When he gets "Player of the Week" and then sits on the bench, he wants to know why.

And when he asks why it is best IMO if you give him feedback rather than just tell him to shut the h*ll up like with what happened last season.

Just about every kid I've known wants to know why and wants clear direction. For example if it's on the bench-the kid wants to know why what he needs to do to get off the bench.

If Freddy is told the plan is to play him at wing and once he learns and plays better he gets to play the more difficult position of a-mid, I betcha the kid wouldn't complain and he'd relax and focus on his game first.

It's more than the technicalities of the position-you have to include the psychology of the individual-in this case an extremely young kid. You have to look at the entire picture when you're a coach. And that means having the kid focused on learning the game and not focusing on the coaching staff or anything else.

In other words even if it is not his best POSITION it may be the best OPTION.

Technically, I don't see where Freddy having tons of space on the wing to dribble and create, and to learn defense, is a bad thing. As for his crossing Waldo thought he was an excellent crosser. Not to mention Gomez is our starter at a-mid. I wouldn't want a kid in the center of the field until he knows what he's doing, as it takes more knowledge skill and experience to play a-mid than it does wing. JMO....

 

I've watched Adu play for 2 seasons with DC and his U-17/u-20 exploits and he just doesn't play effectively on the wing. He doesn't have the workrate, his falls way short of doing the defensive work he needs to, he often drifts into the middle out of position and his crossing abilty at pace is only fair.

Adu has good speed and a flair at taking players on but that in and of itself does not make him a winger.

 

Agreed, I just don't see where that's exclusive to wing play. Not playing hard enough, drifting out of position, and not making good passes is of course essential to play a-mid.