Arena Attendance up

Discussion in 'Business and Media' started by kenntomasch, Apr 14, 2003.

  1. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Arena Attendance up - IDIOT. PLEASE KILL ME OR MOVE ME.

    Arena football attendance up 17%

    Love it, hate it, or indifferent to it, the AFL has seen substantial attendance increases this year. I admit I wasn't sure what the move from primarily Saturday nights to primarily Sunday afternoons would do. Looks like that, combined with the increased awareness of the NBC-TV deal has actually helped. They had a much, much shorter offseason than ever, so they had less time to sell tickets, and appear to have done a good job.

    I'm an idiot. I tried to kill this after realizing I put it in the wrong forum, but it wouldn't let me. Please put it out of its misery or move it.
     
  2. Paul Schmidt

    Paul Schmidt Member

    Feb 3, 2001
    Portland, Oregon!
    Do you really think it has something to do with Sunday afternoons? I've got to question that.

    Every time the NFL seems to be in bed with this (Dallas last year, Colorado this year), it seems to do phenomenally well. The question is when the numbers in Dallas start dipping. Colorado's doing so well that they have nowhere to go but down, but that's a relatively happy problem for them right now. Dallas was the main reason for last year's boost, and Colorado certainly doesn't hurt.

    The other significant boosts here are Chicago, Detroit, the new suburban Atlanta arena, and to a lesser degree Los Angeles, Orlando, Indiana, and New York.

    The issue is sustainability. The teams in this league still look like milk to me... questionable shelf life. For instance, I don't think they can move Carolina to a place resembling the Colorado crowds. Carolina had such a promising start, and three years later they're already in a new home in Charlotte- that isn't taking well to them whatsoever.
     
  3. Jeremy Goodwin

    Jeremy Goodwin Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Feb 16, 1999
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What the hell is up with Denver?

    I mean, apparently these guys just can't get enough of avant-garde "new sports." Particularly the ones played indoors.

    They're like the American public that sports marketing geniuses always dreamed of.
     
  4. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know if Sunday is post hoc, ergo propter hoc or not. I know they moved their games from primarily Saturday nights to primarily Sunday afternoons, and I wasn't sure that would help. It sure hasn't seemed to hurt.

    Here's the comparison from last year's final averages:

    Code:
    TEAM...........2003.....2002
    Chicago.......14,926....9,288
    Colorado......17,433.....N/A
    Dallas........13,867...13,602
    Los Angeles...13,477...12,398
    San Jose......13,280...13,493
    Tampa Bay.....13,211...12,462
    Arizona.......13,070...13,600
    Orlando.......12,458...12,308
    Indiana.......11,387...10,086
    New York......10,581....9.140
    Detroit........9,762....6,646
    Georgia........9,707....7,069
    Las Vegas......9,634....5,655 (as NJ)
    Grand Rapids...9,544....9,905
    Buffalo........7,861....7,279
    Carolina.......7,315....9,417
    LEAGUE........11,704....9,958
    
    Chicago's WAY up, as is Las Vegas after moving from New Jersey, where they couldn't get arrested. Indiana and Tampa Bay are up a bit, as is LA, but most of the rest are within acceptable ranges, with all the numbers obviously not in yet. Georgia moved to a new arena this year.

    And while certain teams might have short shelf lives, the product has been sustained for 17 years now, and NBC (which was not quite so prescient when it came to the XFL) saw enough in it to partner up with them.

    And I'd expect this product to do well when it gets in bed with the NFL. NFL teams know how to sell stuff.
     
  5. Brownswan

    Brownswan New Member

    Jun 30, 1999
    Port St. Lucie, FL
    Is it true that Arena Football Fans marry their cousins?

    Or is that just a rumor spread by WWF fans?
     
  6. Goodsport

    Goodsport Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 18, 1999
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    &nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp Arena Football is actually quite enjoyable to watch, as was seen last summer in South Korea and Japan.

    &nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp&nbsp [​IMG]


    -G
     
  7. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Attendance is still up (way up), but
    their TV ratings are going south.

    In fact, they've dropped every month:


    ARENA FOOTBALL NBC RATINGS 2003

    DATE.....Rating...Audience
    02/02/03...1.6...1,743,000
    02/09/03...1.6...1,671,000
    02/16/03...1.7...1,798,000
    02/23/03...1.4...1,281,000
    FEBRUARY...1.6...1,623,250

    03/01/03...1.2...1,247,000
    03/08/03...1.0...1,062,000
    03/15/03...1.1...1,189,000
    03/22/03...N/A......N/A
    03/29/03...N/A......N/A
    MARCH......1.1...1,166,000

    04/05/03...1.0...1,053,000
    04/12/03...0.7.....770,000
    04/19/03...0.9.....951,000
    04/26/03...0.6.....649,000
    APRIL......0.8.....856,750
    SEASON AVG.1.2...1,031,846



    The difference between the AFL's TV deal and other niche sports TV deals is that (a) their TV deal was supposed to be profitable from Day 1 (don't know if, or how, falling below expected ratings will affect that), and (b) having a three-hour infomercial on a major network every week has sure given them exposure (and, some might say, more credibility) that has paid off in significantly increased attendance.
     
  8. Jeremy Goodwin

    Jeremy Goodwin Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Feb 16, 1999
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sadly, the AFL just isn't any fun to watch, in person or on TV.
     
  9. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I disagree. I've always enjoyed it. But, your mileage may vary.
     
  10. GoDC

    GoDC Member

    Nov 23, 1999
    Hamilton, VA
    Kenn, is it too early to say Move Carolina?? ;)

    Actually I can say I watch it now and then on Sundays. I don't think I will give Danny Snyder my money when he gets a franchise but a fun diversion for TV watching.
     
  11. Andy_B

    Andy_B Member+

    Feb 2, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I read this as well, but like you intimated, nobody is going to be making money if their ratings continue to be so low.

    What should scare the hell out of the Arena League is they have had significant television promotion for a niche league, use regionalization of telecasts, saw their ratings numbers start out pretty good and then drop like a stone.

    It is not hard to see that people sampled the sport and decided that it might not be for them, at least on TV.

    It will be interesting to see what happens next year for the ratings on NBC, assuming NBC does not pull the plug early on them.

    The ratings for the first game in May seems to continue to show sub 1.0 numbers.

    Andy
     
  12. Blitzz Boy

    Blitzz Boy Member

    Apr 4, 2002
    The West Side
    Beer, air conditioning, brutal violence and cheerleaders.

    It's amazing to me that there are any empty seats at any AFL games.
     
  13. nyrmetros

    nyrmetros Member

    Feb 7, 2004
    Are you kidding me???

    Have you been to or seen an Australian Football League game??

    THAT STUFF IS INTENSE!!!
     
  14. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You'd think. I would assume that they (as usual) guaranteed advertisers a certain rating (the guarantee was probably a bit below their public predictions) and may have to give make-goods. Which doesn't necessarily mean they'll lose money on that, per se (it's a complicated ad revenue/production costs split), and they could, if they had to, stick an extra :30 onto spot breaks here and there and make people wait around an extra :30 here and there and they wouldn't even notice it. I had the game on yesterday but didn't watch it closely, so I don't know if they're selling out their avails or not.

    Well, they should be really scared if their revenue or their margins drop like a stone (because, at the end of the day, as in all leagues, it's money in versus money out, and it seems as though they have some pretty solid franchises who are generating significant revenue). If their TV deal is slightly profitable, but their attendance is way up because of the exposure (or for other reasons we haven't taken into account), I'd make that trade. If it turned out to wreck everything (and, as niche leagues go, they've had it pretty good), then I'd be scared.

    And you know what's funny (and this is not directed at you at all, just people in general)? When it comes to soccer, many people just refuse to make that same assumption - that it could just be the product and the intrinsic interest in it. But, no, it's always the promotion, or what's wrong with that city's fan base, or that GM is a moron, or the quality of play. It's almost never that "well, I guess there's just not as big a widespread interest in this particular product as I would like there to be" when it comes to soccer, but everybody's quick to bring that up with every other sport.

    Yes, it will. I don't know if we'll ever see any real financial numbers, but that would be a key, to me. If they're making even a little money on it instead of losing $400 million on one of the really big sports properties, maybe there's not such a big problem. Whether or not they continue to devote the resources like having Glenn Parker and Michael Irvin in studio with Al Trautwig or not, or whether they broadcast that many games every Sunday, I don't know. We'll see.

    Supposedly it was an "indefinite" deal, which, I guess means they could keep doing it as long as they wanted, or dump it anytime.

    But the AFL was doing pretty well for a niche league before NBC came along, and I think they can do all right if they lose NBC. If nothing else, a lot more people know about the league than they did a year ago (and, apparently, many more people are buying tickets than a year ago), and if they didn't lose their butts making that awareness happen, and it carries over a bit, then, maybe it's a decent deal, on balance.
     
  15. KDdidit

    KDdidit Member

    Apr 15, 2001
    The Brookfield Zoo
    I have season tix for the Chicago Rush and its usually pretty entertainig. There's always something going which at least makes the seemingly endless TV timeouts bearable. However I don't get much of a thrill watching it on TV. Weirdly enough 3 weeks ago some woman came up to me after the game and gave me a business card and asked if I'd try out for the local semi-pro team in Kane County. I politely took the card and said I'd check their web-site. Haven't been to a Fire game yet, but does anybody get recruited for the Milwaukee Wave or CF Reserves after games?
     
  16. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I keep hoping. ;)

    The Rush do have that little blonde hottie who handles their timeout festivities. :)
     
  17. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The name didn't change, but the team moved from Raleigh to Charlotte, because the earlier start just wouldn't work with hockey and NC State basketball.
     
  18. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And considering they have a very real chance to go 0-16 (the 1976 Tampa Bay Buccaneers say hi), I'm surprised they have gotten anybody to go at all.
     
  19. Jeremy Goodwin

    Jeremy Goodwin Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Feb 16, 1999
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Semipro powderpuff arena football?

    Or I could just be misinterpreting your avatar.
     
  20. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Final numbers....



    Team............G.....Total....Average
    Colorado........8....139,418...17,427
    Chicago.........8....111,181...13,897
    San Jose........8....108,257...13,532
    Los Angeles.....8....105,756...13,219
    Arizona.........8....104,225...13,028
    Dallas..........8....103,591...12,948
    Tampa Bay.......8.....99,696...12,462
    Orlando.........8.....97,662...12,207
    Indiana.........8.....92,986...11,623
    New York........8.....83,700...10,462
    Las Vegas.......8.....78,329....9,791
    Grand Rapids....8.....77,398....9,674
    Georgia.........8.....73,010....9,126
    Detroit.........8.....67,915....8,489
    Buffalo.........8.....60,978....7,622
    Carolina........8.....54,743....6,842
    LEAGUE........128..1,458,845...11,397


    Average attendance up from 9,958 a year ago (a 14% increase). The move from New Jersey to Las Vegas resulted in a 73% increase, while Chicago was up 50% due to their fans not caring about a suburban location and artificial turf ;) . Georgia was up 29% after moving to a smaller, but brand-new, suburban arena in Gwinnett, while Detroit was up 28%. Carolina's move from Greensboro to Charlotte, and the fact they went 0-16, contributed to them losing 27% from last year, but that was the only significant drop.

    TV ratings weren't what they predicted, but they got major exposure on a national network every week, and their product looks solid and well-received. More NFL owners are signing up.
     
  21. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From Raleigh. Not Greensboro. Raleigh.
     
  22. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My bad. You're right.
     
  23. Paul Schmidt

    Paul Schmidt Member

    Feb 3, 2001
    Portland, Oregon!
    AFL attendance this year was really high in the first couple weeks. I really think NBC backing had something to do with that. Over time, however, the crowds seemed to drop a bit (except Denver, who sold every seat), somewhat in conjunction with the TV numbers.

    Supposedly (and NBC probably tells the truth), they've made money on the venture this year, basically for only having to front broadcasting costs. The real question is the opportunity cost.

    What's interesting to me... four teams have lasted longer than 6 years in the same location. Two of them (Arizona and Orlando) had slight attendance drops, Tampa Bay's attendance rose by 4 people per game, and San Jose went from red to black by having LA at home in a meaningful game Sunday. Next year will be very telling for this bunch... well, it'll be telling to see if this league can maintain this momentum. Up until last year, the league had lost 500 fans per game per season for 4-5 years.

    New Orleans is on for next year, which means Carolina and "maybe" Detroit (a couple of 4K crowds should be alarming) have a place to relocate if necessary. I'm sure the VooDoo wouldn't want Carolina's players, however.

    Now, back to solving the Revolution problems...
     
  24. MLS_stats

    MLS_stats New Member

    May 15, 2003
    How can this league be financially viable with this attendance?
     
  25. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Dude, have you ever gone? The "action" is in the end zones. The best seats are behind the nets. My experience from the Carolina Cobras in Raleigh is that most of the crowd was paying attention to the Snake Charmers and not the game.
     

Share This Page