Discussion in 'Toronto FC' started by ArteEtLabore, Jun 16, 2012.
I'll start off the discussion. Am I fed up with TFC now? Not entirely yet, but I'm losing interest fast.
I've stuck with this time through 5 awful seasons and have rarely missed a game. I've stuck by this team and have often called for patience when things have looked bad.
The one thing that has kept me going through the difficult times was hope. There was always hope that things were going to turn around. But when TFC management called the latest press conference that hope is gone. Nothing against Mariner. Nothing against the 4-4-2. But what this latest move indicates is that TFC can not follow through with a long-term plan and will continue to run this team like the leafs. They will fire Mariner and change things around yet again before he can make any significant impact. This team will continue to be mediocre at best as long as current management is in place
I used to be a big Raptors fan, but I barely follow them anymore. I haven't followed the leafs since the 90s. I don't know how much longer my interest with this team will stay.
I agree. We seemed to be turning things around. One loss in our last five games in all competitons. Now we've reverted back to poor, un convincing play. Mariner just doesn't fill me with enthusiasm. I want to wake up and it's still the first game at SkyDome v. L.A. , and this has all been a bad dream.
When all of us found out that Toronto would be getting an MLS team back in 2006, we were like kids at Christmas. We couldn't wait for it to begin play.
Flash forward six years.
No playoff appearances, a decent CCL run, waning attendance at BMO, total incompetence at the executive level... suddenly, the kids at Christmas want something new. Unfortunately, we keep getting the same old thing.
I guess, in some way, we should be glad this team wasn't called the Blizzard. It would have been an embarrassment to the old NASL club. At least they MADE the playoffs.
Unless there's a major turnaround before the end of the season, I'm getting rid of my season's tickets. Something I swore I would never do.
This thread should include a poll...I've honestly never thought "I may just give up on this club". I've had many nights after a match where I would pull the jersey off and throw it out of frustration, I would say I'm not going to watch it anymore, etc. but on those nights I always knew I'd be back next week. Now that we've fired Winter and repeated the same chain of events from the beginning again, I honestly don't know what I'll be doing.
I hope though, that anyone who does decide not to support TFC anymore will switch to another local football club. There's quality in Canada, and it might just work out way down the line to support somebody local...plus other local clubs don't have the millstone of MLSE hanging around their neck.
The thing I hate the most doesn't have to deal with TFC directly. It's that other teams have found ways to a) win b) make the playoffs and c) do it in less time than us. We have tried everything from hiring guys with MLS head coaching experience, hiring guys with no head coaching experience, playing long ball, playing possession ball, playing defensive-counter attacking style, playing offensive-forget to defend the counter attack style and none of those has gotten us either wins or playoffs.
For years, we had BMO filled with 20,000 screaming fans which made the place one of, if not the most, intimidating place to play in MLS. Despite the poor results of the club, the paid attendance is still at around 18,000 a game. We just spent $20 million on a state of the art training ground. The Academy is increasing in size and scope every year. The club has three DP's.
Yet you look around the league and everyone else is "doing it well" and doing it better - with less. Seattle has made the playoffs every year with DP's and without DP's. New England just hired an American - yes an American - and in less than six months, moved from a vertical kick and run game to a possession game with no DP's. Vancouver's turned it around, and now they're 22 points better than us. RSL won the MLS Cup in 09 and haven't looked back, playing attractive football under an American. DC has fallen and risen. The list goes on and on.
This team hires managers and spits them out just as quickly. They either quit, or they get fired. Management doesn't know what they're looking for and they've never had the balls to admit it. The only thing they've had the balls to do is raise ticket prices and make it harder for people to want to come watch this team. On the field, they can do anything they want and the result will still be the same. Off the field, if they raise ticket prices again, surely they must realise by now that the result will not be the same.
This team's been a load of bullshit from day one. When they hired Klinsman I became optimistic in that someone who actually knows something about soccer would be making a decision. When they hired Winter I became excited because there was hope for something more exciting than what TFC had displayed in the previous years. Progress was slow but steady in the first season and by the end they were actually playing proper football. Then this season progress hit a brick wall (possibly due to Winter allegedly not being allowed to make the off-season changes he wanted) and Winter proved incapable of selecting the right group of players for matches. At that point I wanted Winter to be replaced by someone with the same vision, but more tactically capable.
By hiring Mariner, we've gone and thrown out everything that was built in the last fifteen months, and for what? we wont make the playoffs this year anyways and now we're reverting back to a primitive style that just doesn't work in modern MLS. While more and more MLS teams are learning to keep the ball on the ground and pass the ball up from the back, we're UNLEARNING how to play that way. WTF?!?
That's a whole two years gone because this team is run by idiots who don't know what type of people to hire. They decided to go for a long term plan where the team would learn an attractive attacking system, and then scraped everything after little over a year.
I've figured out what makes me watch TFC game after game. It was the hope that maybe this time they'll do it right. That was mainly when Winter was in charge. Every week I would hope that maybe he would figure out that Dunfield doesn't work in his system and try someone else, or maybe they will have worked out the problems they had last week and build on what worked, etc, etc. It's that sense of curiosity that's been driving me. It's why I even bothered to watch the game today, even though I was 99% sure that they would play kick and run football and fail. there was still that 1% of hope that maybe it wouldn't fail and they would defend well and hit the other team on the counter-attack.
It's that same curiosity that will cause me to watch the next few games as well, hoping that maybe there's something more to Mariner's system that we didn't see today because the players haven't figured it out yet.
Mind you, it probably wont be very long before I don't have any reason to hope anymore. At that point I will stop giving a shit about this team and will stop watch or going to games.
This is easy. Nope and I never will. They're the only pro soccer team in Toronto. Who else am I going to support? It's a silly question.
doesn't this strike you as whinging, starting a thread like this on the heels of our new managers first showing? what impact could he possibly have so soon? very little. the goals came via individual breakdowns, exactly the same stuff as when Winter was in charge and it will take time to build confidence again.
what exactly is MLSE supposed to follow through on? continued losing with Winter? the intangibles you speak of "following through" are just that, intangible. Winter brought the idea of excitement and winning and simply did not deliver. Near the end i was on his side again (should've been gone sooner or not at all, imo ) but would you give him a whole season of losses without accountability? MLSE decided no. yet after Mariner's debut we are now "fed up"? what? man up. if Mariner loses 8 of 10 then we'll have something to talk about.
and why not follow the Raptors? they have a good coach and 1st rounders stockpiled, 2012/2013 should be fun.
I would've given him 3 seasons of patience. It's what we were told to expect and what MLSE said they were giving. Winter got precisely 1 and 1/3 seasons to implement what he an Anselmi said would be 3 full seasons to get off the ground when they held his first press conference.
The reason people are fed up has little if anything to do with Mariner in particular. It has everything to do with people being sick of a revolving door and an ownership group that has no idea what it wants, and no idea how to achieve basic goals, even with its' flagship clubs.
they should sign new players or something, the club is getting less and less interesting. though i think fans showing their anger is good, and i think we all have the right to do so, but giving up on the team forever is a little bit too much.
I have no idea what that is.
He was supposed to have been given 3 years to turn this team around. He was just starting to show signs of that happening, but they yanked him after one and a third seasons.
The Raptors still have the same management team though so my hopes still aren't high.
I don't think we should have kept Winter, but they should have hired someone who knew how to teach that system but at the same time make it more applycable to MLS. It's not like it's impossible to make that system work. Instead we're completely throwing everything out after 15 months. It's sickening
It is getting very tough to stay interested in a team which simply been awful for many years but I continue to stick with it because things can only go up from here right
a new person to approach the same system is a fair argument, but i don't think Klinsmann is on board anymore (?) so Anslemi was basically on his own with the decision, and of course he admits to knowing nothing about football. easy to see why he'd go internal; he couldn't name another candidate let alone attract one.
that's what i'm thinking. my interest is fleeting by now but fed up and bailing are not on my mind. what happens in the off-season is even more important. when we do get it right it'll be sweeter than it's been for any other MLS club because we suck.
This......well except for it being a silly question.
If I could afford season's, I'd buy them. Yes it would be soul destroying and annoying but its the only game in town. And when they score and win its the best.
As a word of explanation, I also owned Argo season tickets for 4 years, even though I'm a Ti-Cat fan, just so I could watch the CFL here.
I'm so fed up with TFC that I am seriosuly willing to lobby MLS to kick them out of the league, forcing them into NASL, where if they can demostrate an ability to win consistently there they will be let back into MLS in the future.
A radical and embarassing idea, but I think the best thing for this club.
It'll give Ottawa a natural rival when they begin play.
I'm not gonna stop being a fan. However, I probably won't get too many tickets for the rest of the season (I already stopped my season's last year). I have never been someone who would make a point to go to unmeaningful just to show support (not sure if that makes me a bad fan).
Honestly, my main interest for this season is for us to try and get out of our CCL group, and for Canadian teams to have a presence in MLS playoffs. I'd also like to see DeRo make a playoff run with DC United.
Next year, I'll probably get excited at the start of the season, but I'm not spending too much time getting excited about this season at this point.
By the way, I was in a Firkin on Satruday and asked them to switch to the game. The girls behind the bar chirped me for following TFC. They were amazed anyone would follow such a bad team.
The difference between the Leafs and TFC is that there was a time when the Leafs were actually good. You'd have to be over 50 years old to remember it, but it did, in fact, happen.
The fact that they havent won the cup in some 45 years doesnt mean they haven't been good in that time. In the late 90s till the lockout they were quite good
So sick of the revolving door, and the obvious lack of football competence in senior management.
I have zero interest in watching some crappy route one ball, and I'm not really optimistic I'll see anything but that for the rest of the season.
Time to update the sig to reflect what I think MLSE should do.