Are you expecting Jesus Ferreira to score goals at the World Cup?

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by xbhaskarx, Oct 24, 2022.

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Are you expecting Jesus Ferreira to score goals at the 2022 World Cup?

Poll closed Nov 21, 2022.
  1. Yes, he's good for around a goal every other game!

    4 vote(s)
    8.5%
  2. No, I am a hater who dismisses his track record of success

    12 vote(s)
    25.5%
  3. No but that's because he won't start or play much

    15 vote(s)
    31.9%
  4. No but he will do the far more important "gregg system" stuff

    14 vote(s)
    29.8%
  5. Gregg will come to his senses and Ferreira won't make the final roster

    2 vote(s)
    4.3%
  1. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I don't know what you're watching if you think he was analogous to the others. Sargent played solid to well in two appearances. Wright was below average at best, but still managed to put himself into positions to score at least twice, and did so once.

    Ferreira was a total and complete ---- show who disappeared entirely except when he was giving the ball away including on a goal.

    If you want to argue that none of them were great, I wouldn't disagree but if we're grading their performances, there is a distinct difference between Sargents C+/B- play, Wrights D/C- play, and Ferreira's "F" level play.
     
  2. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    To be honest, I'm not convinced any of those guys do any better. I mean, Pepi and Pefok didn't do much in 2022 against lesser competition. Pepi failed to scored against the likes of Panama, Honduras, Costa Rica, etc. since he's double against Honduras. He hadn't scored for the USMNT in over a calendar year. So what guarantee is there that he'd score against Holland?
     
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  3. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Point and Point.

    It's also worth acknowledging, Wright, Pefok, Sargent and Pepi are scoring all over the place, even Ferreira, but none are scoring w/the national team. So? It's either a problem for the USMNT, or just their role, but it's definitely how we play more than anything. Scoring against Bundesliga sides, Turkish sides, Swiss sides, Championship sides, Dutch club sides etc isn't elite, but it is not vastly inferior to our Ocho level competition and yet even against them our strikers were utterly toothless.

    This is a part of the design of the attack as much as anything else, and considering that not only do our strikers fail to score goals, but everyone fails to generate a lot of chances or goals as well, it's a system wide issue.
     
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  4. RossD

    RossD Member

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    1 - Aaronson isn't a 9
    2 - Reyna has played like 20 club matches over the last 2 years and I'm pretty sure he never played the 9 for club or country
    That you think Greg should be fired because he played Jesus instead of those two as a 9 shows how little you know (not that I know more either but I'm not calling for the coach to be fired for player selection.)
    All of our 9s aren't good international goal scorers. That's not on Greg and whoever the next coach isn't going to magically turn any of them into one either. Pepe and Pefok couldn't score against CONCACAF level opponents so please explain why you think they would have done any better.
    Our 9s are terrible and that's not changing for a very long time, no matter who the coach is.
     
  5. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Sometimes its OK to admit that there's a talent gap between every forward in our pool and the defenders we have to go up against in order to go to the Quarterfinal of a World Cup.

    There's a reason that the CONMEBOL and UEFA powers are dominating the Round of 16. [Fingers crossed on Morocco right now.]

    True story. Virgil van Dijk is a superior defender by a wide margin to any forward in the history of the USMNT.

    And its not like Ferreira was our only problem against Holland. He doesn't play defense, does he?
     
  6. Fighting Illini

    Fighting Illini Member+

    Feb 6, 2014
    Chicago
    That of course being something I explicitly rejected in what I said.

    And duh, Weah would be the auxiliary 9. He doesn't have the ideal qualities to deliver what's needed from that position within the tactical setup. Well guess what? None of the available options against the Dutch did.
     
  7. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    He was a turnover machine which basically makes any defense worse than its natural state, especially when they're already tired.

    There is a talent gap across the board, I wouldn't deny any of that, which is also, btw, why I'd argued Pepi and the other guys made a lot more sense than Ferreira because of his size issues alone.

    Add the talent and its even worse.

    There were a million reasons we lost, Ferreira was one, not the only one, but definitely one, and he showed in the game why using him and taking him was a mistake. He's not ready for this, at all, and it's on a scale, orders of magnitude worse than with guys like Sargent, Pepi, Pefok and Wright.

    As for Conmebol/UEFA dominance, its more or less what I suggested in the game thread. That this was a tournament that looked far more likely to mirror say a 2010, than a 2014 or 2002 where there were some legit big time surprises. The shake out of the bracket meant the only teams w/any chance at all to make surprise quarterfinal runs were likely to be the US, Japan if it advanced, and Morocco/Canada (whichever one advanced) and that nobody was making a shock run to the semi's.

    There have been some shockers, but in the end, Japan lost on penalties, the US exhausted its upside in the group stage, and Morocco is here and now w/the only chance left.

    SF's will all be big dogs, no upsets whatsoever in QF's if Morocco advances (or if we or Japan had).
     
  8. RossD

    RossD Member

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Serious question:
    What is everyone's expectations for goals from our 9 and why? If you expect our 9 to score 3 goals in the World Cup, why do you have that expectation? Only Mbappe has more than 3 and the next 10 are the Who's Who of international soccer. No idea why we expect our striker to be in that echelon.
     
  9. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Shrug. I'm just not as convinced as others that any of these other options would have gotten the job done either at this level. I mean, Sargent plays in the Championship. Wright plays in Turkey. Vasquez plays in MLS. The list goes on. There's a talent gap between all of them and the Dutch (and there would have been against any of these other Euro/SA teams too).

    Its a fun thing to say "these guys would have done better" when we have zero evidence that's the case. Just speculation. Most of these alternative options people are mentioning failed against much lesser competition in CONCACAF.
     
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  10. RossD

    RossD Member

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Who was our last great 9? Jozy? Pretty sure his nickname was Anti-score.
    It's not like we've had a plethora of strikers. If we did then all the sudden it dried up under Greg then yeah, I'd blame him too. But we never have.
    I just think a lot of you guys are setting yourselves up for even more frustration when the next coach has the exact same problem.

    Also, any offensive minded coach will thus lack a defensive mindset. All coaches will have their strengths and weaknesses.
     
  11. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    its crazy how popular that logic- better to stay with whats proven to suck- is around here. we dont know that reyna could do as well as morris, whos to say scally is any better than moore, hur de dur de dur, two trophies!
     
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  12. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    [According to goals per cap..........only three players have a higher figure than Altidore amongst regulars. Donovan, Dempsey, and Pulisic.]

    I remember back to the 2014 WC.
    Jozy got hurt in the first game. Johannsson apparently also had a minor knock.

    So Klinsmann was forced to play Dempsey up top, which sorta weakened two positions. [He brought Wondo on as a sub, but we know how that worked out.]

    So what happens against Belgium, a top 10 team? Just anemic. In that case we had Tim Howard set a WC record for most number of saves in a match. He kept us respectable.
     
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  13. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wright scored a goal and Wright and Sargent demonstrably played better than him.
     
  14. RossD

    RossD Member

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Which is why he was 3rd string. And if Sargent wasn't hurt Jesus probably would have never seen the field. Are we seriously expecting our 3rd string 9 to score a couple goals? That ain't happening.

    And I remember guys screaming about Wright walking around the field and that he wasn't even trying.
     
  15. jgardner02

    jgardner02 Member

    Aug 30, 2011
    We can never do better than we have and we should all accept it? That's your post?
     
  16. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    thats at least 19% of all posts on bigsoccer
     
  17. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    Agree on Sargent. Disagree on Wright.
     
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  18. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    You bring up an excellent point. It took Dempsey three World Cups to score 4 goals while it took Donovan three World Cups to score 5 goals.

    Rooney's only scored 1 goal in 3 World Cups while Zlatan has 0 goals in 2 World Cups.
     
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  19. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Checking out the back line and keeper from the match, we have--

    There's obviously Van Dijk
    Timber
    plays in the Eredivisie.
    Though currently with ManCity, the last place Ake was a consistent starter was at Bournemouth
    Noppert plays in the Eredivisie.

    Pefok had UCL/EL goals against some pretty good defenders and pretty good teams. Pulisic has had top UCL performances at forward. Weah can also play the position.

    Van Dijk didn't play all four positions. As for Ferreira, I continue to maintain an Almiron type positional change might be best.
     
  20. Fighting Illini

    Fighting Illini Member+

    Feb 6, 2014
    Chicago
    But like, a young inexperienced false-9-y ball playing guy who will be the single least in-form guy on the team due to how long it's been since he's played is a bad choice for a role which by definition will be "score a goal in a pinch" if used at all.

    That's why people thought he would be the starter. Why else take him?
     
  21. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    [​IMG]

    The only goals scorers from MLS are two big Euro stars that recently came over... but how many goals do they have against Grenada?

    Oh and the only fully MLS-product player on the list is Alphonso Davies... MLS lagged behind LigaMX and even the Australian league in that regard.
     
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  22. adam tash

    adam tash BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    honestly the mood and aura around this forum is odd and depressing.

    it IS crazy...and you are one of the minority of posters who isn't illogical.

    I get the feeling perhaps some of our "brethren" are paid actors/bots/etc
     
  23. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    Is there a way back for Ferreira?
     
  24. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    He turns 22 on Christmas Eve. So yes.
     
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  25. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm pretty much the biggest Ferreira doubter out there, but just because he shouldn't have even made the 2022 roster doesn't say anything about where he will be in 2023, 24, 25, 26, etc.
    Most players don't peak at 21, no reason he can't improve, perhaps significantly.
    Ferreira will be 25 at WC26, 29 at WC30, 33 at WC34... that's 12 years of potential national team relevance, at least being part of the pool.
     

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