Are you expecting Jesus Ferreira to score goals at the World Cup?

Ferreira has scored goals against quality teams this season in MLS. He's got 2 away at LAG, 1 away and 2 at home vs LAFC (the league champs), and 1 at home against Philadelphia (league runners-up). Those are quality teams, and two of those were the MLS Cup finalists this year. That accounts for 6 of his 18 goals this season.

 

None of our #9s were scoring with regularity against "good teams." Our leading scorer in 2020 was a four way tie between Sebastian Soto, Nicholas Gioacchini, Chris Mueller, and Sebastian Lletget. True story. Throughout the entire cycle we were lamenting our lack of production at the #9 position. So any criticism of one #9 can be extended to every other #9 (except those that didn't get a shot like Vasquez).

Pepi himself has gone a full calendar year without scoring for the USMNT.
He scored in his first two caps, and hasn't since.

I'm not anti-Pepi, anti-Ferreira, or anti-anybody. [As an FCD fan, I'm a supporter of both. They're good friends, so pitting them against each other seems a bit awkward.]

its just 6 of one; half a dozen of the other for me. The options are relatively similar. It's mind-boggling to me that folks can make passionate arguments for or against any of these selections. They're all about the same. And by the way, Vazquez and company are too.

Coach's choice......................and he chose Ferreira, Sargent, and Wright. I'm surprised that he didn't pick Pepi, but on the other hand Pepi went most of the calendar year of 2022 without doing anything to win the place.

True story. Pepi and Ferreira COMBINED very well on the field at the same time. I forget what number of Pepi goals in 2021 came from Ferreira assists. It was a healthy percentage. The two have very different skill sets. Ferreira is much more of a playmaker while Pepi is more of a traditional #9. In a different era, Ferreira would probably have been a #10 (as of course his father was). He played there quite a bit at the FCD academy. Luchi tried to make a 3-5-2 work with them up top together in 2021, but that didn't work with the rest of the squad.

I'm semi-convinced that if Ferreira was actually a 21-year old South American and not a 21-year old Colombian-American, people would look at his production differently. Cuz over the last two MLS seasons he's had 26 goals and 14 assists. That's nasty. That's Miguel Almiron-level impact.

When one watched FCD this past year they often found Ferreira sitting very deep. He then looked for Velasco or Arriola out wide, and combined well with them. Then drove into the box. But it was really his role in the build-up to goals that goes unmentioned. One can draw a little parallel to the USMNT. One can see a coach thinking: The strength of our team is Pulisic, Weah, Reyna, and Aaronson. That's where the goals are likely to come from. Which forward can combine with them and set them up? We're not going to be whipping in crosses for a Brian McBride-style forward to knock in. First of all, who's doing the whipping? Second of all, we don't have Brian McBride.

Anyway, my point is simply that Ferreira is just as worthy of a spot as any of these other guys that didn't make it. None of them are Lewandowski, but we already knew that. I don't know why all of a sudden he's become the target.

 

I agree with this completely. There's not many teams going to the World Cup leaving a player like Jesus at home. He's a big speed threat with soft feet and a nice eye for a pass, how many of those guys have we ever had?

 

lol, no.

 

Its a very different skill set than most of our #9s.

Its just one of those things. There are questions about MLS guys at the elite international level until they go out and do it when the games matter. Some do. Clint Dempsey was still a member of the Revs when he was selected for the 2006 World Cup. In the 2006 season Dempsey had 8 goals and 1 assist. Ferreira just had 18 goals and 6 assists.

I will say this. This schtick about guys not scoring against elite opposition is a little weird. After the advent of the Nations League around the World, it's difficult to actually schedule those games. They don't have many opportunities.

Ferreira has played a grand total of 60 minutes as a #9 against European and South American opposition. He started against Bosnia on the wing in 2021 (Pepi started as the #9). His 60 minutes were against Uruguay.

So how is Ferreira going to do against Wales and England? I don't have the foggiest clue. We'll find out on the day one way or the other. I also have no clue about Pepi, Sargent, Wright, or any of these guys. Sargent has scored 2 goals against Euro or South American opposition. One was against an awful Bolivia team. Just awful. The other was against Peru. Both games at home. He's made some garbage time cameos against the likes of France, Italy, and Ireland early in his career. Not so relevant to today.

 

I'm not expecting much. He's a skilled player but not fast enough or strong enough to play #9 against good competition. Honestly I have not watched him much in MLS so maybe he has taken a leap in development. The stats sure look good.

From seeing him for the USMNT I think he get's bullied and is ineffective if he starts. Sargent or Weah is the starting striker for me at this point.

Maybe he would be more effective as a second striker playing off a more traditional #9 but that's not how we play.

 

Given Gregg's inability to manage in-game, I don't see the USA scoring any goals at all during this World Cup.

 

I mean this overanalysis of the goal contributions of Pepi and Ferreira against CONCACAF opposition is a little crazy.

Look at Clint Dempsey's games against CONCACAF opposition prior to the 2006 World Cup. He played in the 2005 Gold Cup and many WCQers. He didn't score or have assists in games against Guatemala, Panama, Costa Rica, Honduras, Jamaica, T&T, etc. either.

Prior to that World Cup he had scored one goal in a game that mattered. That was against Cuba in the opening game of the 2005 Gold Cup. Prior to that World Cup he had zero assists.

The first assist Dempsey ever had for the USMNT was in his 22nd cap.......................in the World Cup against Italy.

If people think we KNEW Donovan and Beasley were going to be great in 2002, they're lying. We didn't yet know how they were going to perform at that level. If people think we KNEW Dempsey was going to be great in 2006, they're also lying. You don't know until you know. By the way, Dempsey was 23 in 2006. Ferreira is 21.

 

My concern with Ferreira is his finish to the season in the playoffs. He was a zero. The highest level of competition in the most recent timeline, and he was poor.

 

Yeah... he was really poor down the stretch of the MLS season. And in the playoffs he was nigh invisible. Concerning indeed. At this point I am hoping Josh gets the start and would even take Haji as I think Ferriera is going to get muscled off the ball easily and he brings no threat whatsoever when crosses are put into the box.

 

He's more than fast enough. It's hard to take your scouting eye serious if you miss something that blatant.

 

I don't expect him to score many or any goals because he hasn't been scoring them against this kind of competition. This will probably not be a popular opinion, but if I had to name a player to play the striker position for GGG the way he wants it played, it would actually be Weston McKennie. He presses and defends, he can drop into the midfield, he's good in the air, he can hold the ball up and he has a knack for scoring goals.

 

Not saying he's slow but I don't think any of our opponents are scared of his pace. I never noticed him blowing past people in qualifying. It's a matter of degree but I haven't seen elite speed from him. I don't think he would be considered that fast in a top 4 league.

 

It may be rude, but I don't trust MLS the same way I trust EPL, even Championship, Eredivisie, and Turkey in terms of goals.

At the end of the day, Sargent, Pefok, Pepi, and Wright have all scored against teams either currently in European competition, or at times good enough to make that level (I think so with Sargent, I'd have to double check, I know the other 3 have). MLS goals are, just not remotely as valued to me. I appreciate when they are scoring, as oppossed to not, but I'm not going to rate a goal someone scores against LAFC or Philly like I would one against Beskitas, the Turkish league champ in Trabwhatever, Pefok's nearly double digit European goals, plus RB Lepizig goal this year, or Sargents against, checking, RB Leipzig, Frankfurt and however we want to rate Hertha Berlin etc. I just value those big competition europe goals more, it may be getting unfair to say that, but I'm still arguing it for now.

FTR, as said elsewhere, I expect Ferreira to be a legit European based attacking player going forward, I'll be surprised, and disappointed if that doesnt happen.

 

He's fast, its just more the way we use him. He hasn't been speeding forward on the break pretty much ever from what I can rememeber so we haven't seen it, but I've seen the #'s and he's one of the fastest in MLS if memory serves.

 

Ehhh, "scouing eye", we're just people with strong opinions. I'm not a tape grinder and I doubt many, if any, around here are.

 

True, I almost put a caveat in my last post that we don't play too many balls over the top so it's hard to tell.

From what I've seen he's not so fast that defenders are going to be scared to mark him closely and out muscle him.

 

Except of course we have plenty of MLS players that scored consistently at the international level. Chief among them was Landon Donovan, of course. When Dempsey scored at the 2006WC, he was an MLS player. When McBride scored in 1998 against Iran, he was an MLS player. The list goes on and on.

We really have no idea how any of these guys are going to play against this caliber of competition................until they do it.

 

same.


he could possibly score a tap-in or a PK.

otherwise, no.

i also expect him to be a liability in possession and not start the 3rd match.

for me, this will be his swansong with the USMNT.

 

its actually a great idea!

get a better creator in midfield too.

let weston just play with the flair he wants to and not worry about shape or respnsibilities......he puts the ball in the net!

put reyna in midfield and weston at striker! I vote yes.

 

Dempsey's a weird case, generally speaking, people didn't really know what they had in Dempsey for a long time (wasn't hugely important to quarterfinalist U20 WC team in '03, slowly broke through after university with club team), and he didn't really start becoming influential with the national team until the late winter early spring of '06 before the World Cup. It's odd though, there's about 10 games where he had starters minutes w/no counting stats.

I'm gonna call foul on Donovan though. Everyone who was paying attention knew about Donovan well before WC '02. He starred at the U17's in '99, but I wasn't aware of that, I became aware of him at the Olympics in '00, when he was foolishly not used properly by Clive, but was crazily dynamic whenever he got on the field. Faster than everybody, nearly always beating his guy. Following that, in the next spring word came out he was coming back to the US, he scored 12 goals and grabbed 8 assists in his debut as a teenager playing in the shrunken garbage Spartan stadium, and then that winter and spring following qualification Bruce brought him fully into the side and he was a revelation....Scored against South Korea in the Gold Cup, then a month later he and Mathis personally annihilated Honduras, each grabbing a brace in a 4-0 thrashing revenge match (Honduras beat us in D.C. six or seven months earlier right before 9/11), that late winter and spring he'd score 4 goals and add 2 assists in the Gold Cup and tune up friendlies. We knew Donovan was coming.

Beasley's more nebulous, he was written up in a story that winter along side Donovan as the two new young stars that showed well at South Korea in a December win/preview of the World Cup, but I also just didn't know what to think of him at the time other than young and fast.

So I don't know exactly?

I "knew" Donovan was legit because I saw it in 2000, 2001, and 2002. It was as obvious as Reyna has some technical skills. Dempsey I didn't know. Going into WC '10 I did know Altidore, I'd been watching him for 5 years, and he blew me away throughout, especially at the U20's in '07 and the Confed Cup in '09. There were "I knew" guys that I didnt know, like Adu, Bradley, and Eddie Johnson, I was stunned when Adu failed and Eddie flamed out, and I was underselling Bradley until he had firmly and completely made me into a colossal idiot, at which point I changed my mind (around '10).

We'll see how this goes.

Technically, I'm convinced w/all of our strikers more or less, I think they're all good, those called in and those not, and more impressive as a collective group than any group of strikers since '02 (and '02 only because guys like Mathis and Donovan were strikers and midfielders, not just midfielders, that kind of group, Mathis, Donovan, McBride, Wolff etc, was proven internationally in a way this group isn't).

In the fullness of time, I think it's clear that Wright, and Pefok are legit strikers, even if they don't fit our style of play great, and I'm convinced Pepi, Sargent, and Ferreira will prove out as well. Not sure about Vasquez, and it needs to be noted that I don't think Ferreira is a striker, and will likely be an A Mid, in terms of his career given time, but right here, right now, wherever he's playing, he's good, he's just not as good an option as other guys for us.

 

Our goal against Italy was an own goal off a Bobby Convey free kick. No assist from Dempsey.

 

Donovan ALWAYS scored in MLS, and internationally. There never was a time that he wasn't. He scored at the U17's, in paltry minutes at the olympics (and was goal dangerous when he wasn't scoring there) and when Arena put him in a game for the first time, he scored his first goal in his first cap against Mexico, and then he scored some more the following winter and spring when he got regular minutes tallying 4 goals and 2 assists before the WC in matches after qualifying.

You've got me on Dempsey, Dempsey's the weirdest of the weird though, especially for a guy so impossible to not notice, he was still, mostly not super relevant as an international until right before that '06 WC as you said.

McBride had two goals in Europe before he stepped on an MLS field so there's that.

For Josh Sargent, the trust is there with me, he was 1 goal off tied for leading scorer at the U20 WC as a 17 year old, he broke in w/Bremen's first team months after his arrival and scored and even though the goals dried up, it was while Bremen was falling apart as a team. His goals are back, in my view, because he's confident, and playing w/service.

Wright's now on his third straight productive season, he's a bad fit for our style of play unless we decide to go counterattacking which is possible considering the call ups, but he's legit in his own way. Pefok is as well, just not a great fit either. You don't do what Pefok's done w/o having a legit skill set, he just also has clear limitations.

Pepi's on his way, still a work in progress, but legit in my view anyway.

Ferreira's a midfielder playing at being a striker, could work as a 2nd striker in a pairing, but he doesn't work as the lone tip of a spear. Hopefully we don't do it anyway, but I imagine we will. Again, I think he's a good player with the potential to be a great one, but I don't see him as a starting striker and view it as a mistake to start him as one, especially considering our opponents, but maybe, at the end of the day, his ball skills, trump his lack of size when we play defense first, BIG teams, but considering our predilection to throw in crosses into the box in the air, I'm skeptical and view him as far too wasteful. Doesn't matter at this point though, we left our best option at home, and we'll live or die w/Egg's not inspiring track record w/the attack. Hopefully it looks a lot more like March/June and a lot less like September and qualifying windows 1-4.

 

then go on.

 

why wouldnt he start the third match? how else is gregg gonna show us the first two were flukes?