Are people really OK with losing to Colombia, Brazil, Uruguay, and Colombia?

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Ghost, Apr 6, 2024.

  1. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    I don’t expect to win, but I want the players to.

    If they want it, they can open up a can on this tournament. We have the guys to do it.

    But do they want it? Yet to be seen.

    We play llke an NBA playoff-level team. Some nights we want to coast and we drop some to some bottom-dwellers, but when Jokic or Giannis are in town, we show up.

    Honestly, that’s not a bad thing to be. But we are positioned to be more. We are positioned to be reckoned with.

    Are we the best defensive team in Copa America? It would be interesting to look at. Our defensive midfield was the best defensive midfield at the World Cup, and it likely will be at Copa America. Guys like McKennie, Pulisi, Reyna, Weah, Dest, Antonee, Pepi, Balogun, Sargent, Wright, etc, will all be looking to make some noise that will be heard in the club world. We could really do some damage in this tournament if our guys are looking to make a mark.

    Eff ‘em. Try some sh*t and walk off with a trophy before the home World Cup.
     
  2. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I love the USA as much as anyone but best defensive team and best defensive midfield?

    I'd say no and no.
     
  3. pipinogol

    pipinogol Member+

    May 20, 2016
    Club:
    Cary RailHawks U23
    Think he means the best team out of those that play with a defensive-minded set up? surely not the team with the best overall defense...
     
  4. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    or, you know, we could "implode" at the copa (not make it out of the group), or lose in the first ko match, he doesnt lose the locker room, everyone says its a process and we are heading in the right direction and its still a positive result and absolutely nothing changes.

    and bs will pretend the sf talk never happened. theyll say its a process and we are heading in the right direction and its still a positive result and absolutely nothing changes.

    greggs the manager. thats not going to change. hes not going to lose the locker room. there is no calamity thats going to shake anything up. we are going to be ok. we are going to do ok. we are ok.

    no more, no less. the only variable is how each of us individually feel about that.
     
  5. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Colombia as an away team has been a little scary. They have friendly wins against Spain and Germany away in the last calendar year.
     
    RossD repped this.
  6. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Yeah, that's where I am, but then again, I think Berhalter's coaching has fine. I also have little interest in an 180 degree philosophical change like we'd likely see with a Marsch, though he's not the only option.

    I simply struggle with the idea that our players are amazing machines who are psychologically crushed by the complexity of Berhalter's system that uses many of the same principles they play at club that they completely fall apart. And that really any coach that comes in will suddenly have them playing above their talent level.

    I think there's plenty of room for improvement, of course, but the idea that this team is very poor compared to its talent or that it's poor coaching holding us back -- I have yet to see anyone make a compelling argument on a true logical, evidence based causal level. I see a lot of high level ideas that people think we should be blowing people out constantly or an expectation that we have a lot of upsets with no disappointments.

    Players are 85-90% of winning and losing, and maybe more. That doesn't mean the coach doesn't matter because sometimes it's the last 5% that wins or loses. But when a player blows a 3 on 2 on the break due to a bad touch ... that's not coaching.
     
    HomietheClown and RossD repped this.
  7. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    It would not be too late. I do tend to side with the idea that losing the locker room is the most likely situation to actually change managers. Which may happen if we get blown off the field at Copa.

    People seem to want to hire and fire managers like they are club managers in a relegation fight, desperate for a short term bounce. I don't think that's all that smart at club, but definitely makes less sense to me in international play where short term results are also very, very small samples with very little coaching time.
     
    superdave, RossD and gomichigan24 repped this.
  8. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    My gut says Uruguay.
     
  9. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    The whole point of playing in a Copa America is to test ourselves against teams at a higher level than we get in CONCACAF. And by ourselves we mean the players, but also the coaching staff.

    So we wait and watch. THEN we determine what the performance of Berhalter and his staff has been.

    The best team Berhalter has faced in a game that's mattered in his tenure was 5th ranked England at the World Cup. Did England win that game??? Maybe my memory is hazy.

    So of course the USMNT has a chance against any of these opponents.

    We'll see how it goes.
     
    theboogeyman repped this.
  10. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    Tyler Adams alone makes us defensively superior to Uruguay in the midfield.
     
  11. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    Every generation has pushed the envelope and redefines American soccer in some way. Each generation stands on the ground provided by those before. These prior generations have moved the ball upfield and put the current generation in position to score. Its up to them. Its up to the players. Donovan, Dempsey, Bradley, and co. nearly beat Brazil in a final where they knocked Spain out. Its this generations time to surpass that.

    Win the tournament.
     
  12. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Or, "Each generation hangs from the gallows constructed by those before." :D
    That seems to fit what happens with the USMNT quite often,
     
    NietzscheIsDead repped this.
  13. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    The gallows motivates some, frightens others.
     
  14. RossD

    RossD Member+

    Aug 17, 2013
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    We've swapped coaches before when we still had qualifiers to play, the new coach had games that mattered that he could coach the team up for. I don't have our schedule memorized but how many meaningful games will we have after the COPA before the WC starts? I just don't see a reputable coach wanting to come into that situation if Greg were to be fired after the Copa. What coach would want to come in where they really don't have the team together for any serious amount of time for the next year or more?
    We keep thinking the WC at home is a huge lure. But it's 6 weeks of work, 2 years from now, with not much to do between now and then. Who would be excited by that prospect in any field? We, the fans are emotionally invested in having the WC here, but I doubt a foreign coach really gives a damn about that. So, then it wouldn't be a selling point to hire them.
     
  15. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    It would have to be something weird or desperate like Mourinho who has kinda hinted having the itch to manage Internationally.

    And that could really be a disaster.
     
  16. Sebsasour

    Sebsasour Member+

    New Mexico United
    May 26, 2012
    Albuquerque NM
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think people are drawing these tournaments out too much. You never know what surprises happen or how things in general will just play out.

    What if both Berhalter and Uruguay's coach decide playing Brazil/Colombia is a wash and just decide to rest starters or at least guys on yellows? That game effectively becomes a friendly

    Who's going to need the win vs only a draw in that Group finale against Uruguay? Also will both nations avoid stubbing their toe in the other 2 games?

    What if Paraguay or Costa Rica advance out of Group D? Last time Costa Rica played in a Copa America they upset Colombia (which in turn won us the group despite losing to Colombia).
     
    gomichigan24 and RossD repped this.
  17. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    #92 HomietheClown, Apr 13, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2024
    Hmmm.

    I have been thinking about this. Colombia historically has Paraguay's number the last handful of cycles so I am confident that Colombia will win but you just never know. Opening night jitters and expectations could be a weight on the shoulders. But I still think Colombia is the obvious favorite.

    I will say I am a bit more concerned about Alfaro and Costa Rica since he knows Colombian futbol very well being an ex-manager in the Colombian league and a television analyst. A draw could very well happen or even a crazy lucky bounce loss BUT not because of anything relating to 2016. 2016 Pekerman played a bunch of benchers (to rest players for the next round) including a crappy backup Keeper who never played for Colombia ever again after that match... ... so for you to bring up that match is a tiny bit deceiving when pertaining to this year.

    Anyway, I think Colombia finds a way to beat both Paraguay and Costa Rica. Then probably draws Brasil and wins the Group somehow.
    Paraguay usually plays well against Brasil in this tournament so that could be the difference in my opinion.
     
  18. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I mean that’s basically what Nagglesman did with Germany. And it’s also the case that it’d be easier for us to pay a big name coach for two years as opposed to four.

    Your best case scenario is getting someone who’s coming from the club game and wants to take it a bit easier and is ok with a slower pace of international management for two years. But it’s still going to be a limited pool of international managers who are interested.

    If Berhalter were let go, the most likely replacement by far is Jessie Marsch.
     
  19. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    for me the expectations people seem to have for the usMNT for this copa would be the ones that I would have if it was being held in south america

    whereas at home....the us should be challenging for the title



    Marko Mitrovic nailed it after the U23 tied France in France

    "we just have to beleive" "everyone is good...but we are good too"

    according to everyone on here,.....USA has zero chance of doing anything against France...but even without most of the US' actual best u23s, they got a result in France vs France!!

    there is this insidious INFERIORITY COMPLEX in US SOCCER that needs to be rooted out

    extremely profilic on this board.


    US should be going into ANY TOURNAMENT going for the title with full belief! at all levels.

    these excuses people have that colombia uruguay blah blah blah...NO!

    these teams should not be favored in the USA vs the USA! period.

    yes they are good. but so is the USA.

    stop making excuses for gregggg.

    mitrovic is a way better coach and speaker than gregg.

    if the usa plays poorly in the copa FIRE greggg and get a real coach...just like any real soccer country without an inferioirty complex would do.
     
    Ghost repped this.
  20. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Can you show us, on the doll, where Gregg touched you?
     
    RossD repped this.
  21. Ryan T Smith

    Ryan T Smith Member

    Borussia Dortmund
    United States
    May 10, 2022
    Sometimes when I'm bored I dive into the BS archives just to see what the fanbase had to say about our team in prior cycles, especially since I didn't really start following football until post-Couva. Anyway, I went back to 2006, the earliest World Cup with surviving threads on this site, and was surprised to find that the fanbase's general expectation for Germany '06 was more or less along the lines of "to assert ourselves as a top 8-10 team in the world." Now I realize that our quarterfinal run 4 years prior combined with FIFA's flawed world rankings putting us firmly in the top 10 skewed the fanbase's perception of the team but it still disappointed me that we as a fanbase no longer have that ambition the '06 fanbase had. To not just hold the status quo but to exceed it and actually improve our standing on the world stage. Because from 2010 to 2022 our expectations remained largely unchanged: "The goal is to get out of the group, anything beyond that is gravy" is the sentiment often echoed by fans and coaches. I really hope this fanbase pushes for a deeper run these next two tournaments, especially considering we are at home. If we bow out in the quarterfinals of Copa America and once again lose in the Round of 16 at World Cup '26, we can't afford to keep pretending everything is "fine." We should demand better!
     
    Ghost repped this.
  22. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Herve Renard is a top candidate to replace Klinsmann with South Korea. There are good, accomplished candidates out there. I'm not advocating GGG be replaced.
     
  23. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    There are good candidates on paper but managing in the USA is a bit different than Africa or wherever he was at. Dealing with MLS and CONCACAF issues is like an animal of its own. Not saying he would come in and automatically fail but we have seen lots of Euro managers over the decades get a culture shock when coaching in this part of the world.
    It may take more than a bunch of friendlies and a Gold Cup to change the culture and get his tactics implemented and refined.
     
  24. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    #99 HomietheClown, Apr 15, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2024
    When the World Cup hits us I am with you. It should feel like a Home Tournament.

    The Copa America though is being organized in part by the CONMEBOL. These "home matches" are not going to feel like "home matches" past the Group Stage.

    Colombia is the hottest team on the planet and has a great following wherever they go. They felt like a Home team in London against Spain last month. They felt like a Home team in Madrid against Romania. Heck, even in Germany it was almost about 50-50 in the stands. Or at least it felt that way since the Colombian fans had more to cheer about.


    Uruguay is a fantastic squad with a good manager and a mentality that this is their Cup winning the most Championships ever (Tied with Argentina).
    There won't be much of an Uruguayan contingent due to their small population so that is a positive but they still will be very tough to beat in a knock-out.


    Brasil is Brasil. We have never beaten them in a competitive match and they are the most prestigious team on the planet. There's going to be fans and bandwagon fans in their favor unless they are playing poorly.

    Sure, we should have high expectations as fans but we also cannot be delusional.
    We are underdogs and hopefully can make it to at least the Semis. However, losing in the Quarters to a great team is nothing to be ashamed of.
     
  25. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    yes we have
     
    HomietheClown repped this.

Share This Page