Since WC 82 Spain's results: 1 World Cup 2 Euros 1 Euros runners-up 5 Quarter finals Since WC 82 France's results: 2 World Cups 1 WC runners-up 1 WC third place 2 Euros 1 Euro runners-up 1 Euro semi-final 3 Quarter finals Since WC 82 Italy's results: 1 World Cup 1 WC runners-up 1 WC third place 2 Euro runners-up 1 Euro semi-final 3 Quarter finals Spain have won two more trophies and France have won three more trophies than Italy since the 1982 triumph. Both nations are much more successful than Italy at under-age level since 1982, particularly Spain, who have just won the under-21 Euros again to tie Italy's record with five victories. Spanish club football has largely dominated this century. Do these stats illustrate that France and Spain are making improvements since the mid-eighties and will this trend of outperforming Italy continue? Will one of them eventually supplant Italy as Europe's recognized second most-feared behind Germany? Will both of them overtake Italy in terms of achievement, like Germany have done? And how long will it take? Forgetting Italy's historical achievements for a second, will both nations outperform Italy on the international stage from hereon in? I think France will, unfortunately. Spain maybe, but I'm not certain on that score.
We can't calculate this in described way, just if we pick one year; 1982. Teams don't switch generations at the same time. World Cup 1982 expanded and in that time World Cup had 24 teams, at World Cup 1998, there were 32 teams. I think that contemporary football started to develop at World Cup 1974., after the Rimet Trophy. France was bad in World Cup 1994 Qualifications. Spain was always some kind of favourite since 1950's and their success of Real Madrid. The titles should be the number one criteria. Spain can have 30 great players, but this isn't some strong guarantee to be better than Italy or France. They achieved their 5th U21 European title, but they don't transfer this in senior tournaments. If we crop this current period, France seems as the strongest team now, but they still need to achieve 1-2 World Cup title. Lets not ignore Portugal, EURO 2016, Nations League titles. We could see the best EURO 2020 ever if we observe the teams: Switzerland, Portugal, Netherlands, England, Belgium, France, Spain, Italy, Croatia, Germany, Denmark, maybe Russia, Ukraine, Turkey. They could all end in quarter-final. We need to divide the periods, when Rimet Trophy ended. For example, Belgium has potential to bring the same results just like Spain, in shorter period than Spain. They already have: 3rd, 4th positions at World Cups. They could win the EURO 2020 title, they are in that small circle. Tottenham bought one new great French player: Tanguy Ndombele. France creates quality very fast. In many other teams, Benzema would be the key player. France avoids him. They have strong club schools in Ligue 1: Bordeaux, Lille, Lyon, Marseille, Montpellier, Nice, Rennes, St. Etienne, Strasbourg, Toulouse. Monaco, PSG so far buy players. They create society of decentralization with higher percent of migrants, families with more children, society isn't ageing, so they have more choice in sports. Since World Cup 2010, foreign players don't boycott the team. In handball, they are the best team ever, I notice similarities between handball and football in France. The similar is in basketball. The same pattern of success which was created in these modern times, in early 1990's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_national_basketball_team https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_national_handball_team
Benzema hasn't been called up due to non-sporting reasons. He would easily be a starter ahead of Giroud who isn't very fast himself.
It's a fair question. To me, it comes down to youth development. We've had some successes recently at the U17, U19, and U20 levels. That bodes well. The French are utilizing their heavy immigration to replenish the team. We all know that. We can have all the debates we want about how "French" the team is, but they are playing by the rules. They are a very fast and athletic team which has enough skill to get the job done. Spain on the other hand is mostly about skill, skill, and more skill. Those teams have an identity. It's something we've lacked for a while. When I look at our current team, I cannot lie and say we are developing defenders the way we used to. That simply isn't true. However, they are good ENOUGH to win a title. The midfield is strong and has creativity but I feel like we waste players when we send out the likes of Jorginho out there. Center forward is a problem and we have to fix that soon...hopefully Belotti can take back that mantle and keep it. We aren't going to be ticki tacka and we aren't going to be speedsters like France is. We can however build a strong defense with a midfield that is capable of possession but all the quick strike long ball. That's why the development of Tonali is so huge for this team. No one else I see coming up the ranks can split a defense open the way he can...not Verratti, not Jorginho, not Mandragora or Locatelli. If that kid can shine, he and Barella could for a great duo.
What would it look like if I did it from 1990? Or 2000? The reason I started at 82 is because Spain and France contested the final of Euro 1984 and that's the point at which they both converged and started to emerge as more serious forces. The point is they are obviously improving in the last few decades while Italy are standing still.
Or 2013? 24 years is two decades. Can likely make that argument for Brazil and Germany too if you carefully select the right dates.
Where did you get 24 years? Spain and France have improved their results. This is a fact. What is your POINT!?
You said 2 decades, 24 years is a little longer than 2 decades. If I want to cherry pick dates I could; do your little math calculation for Germany after 1990 to 2014. And then do you math for Brazil between 1970-1994. my point is pretty straight forward if you take the time to think about it. We could be like, Since 1990 Germany has 1 Euro win, a Euro runner up and a world cup, or whatever and the point would be what? Back to yours with a little luck in one off matches Italy could have won 94, 2000, etc and then you conclusion would be what? What's your POINT?
France has different problems at the moment. Algerians who live in France, they celebrated Algerian victory and everything turned in fan riot. They had Algerian flags. This is connected with 14th July, National French Day. Algerians wanted to spoil this celebration. Majority of Algerian players was born in France. The main question is, why French citizens don't support France? Other semi-final teams are Tunisia and Senegal. Basically, French Trophy 2019. After that we can discuss about "outperforming". France can create 20 sets of national teams. Not only A, B team. If they are not good for France, they will pick some other team. Are players who play for France there, because of their belief in French culture, or only prestige? Spain has a lot of players of Catalan, Basque origins. That's why I don't think that they can outperform Italy. There is not enough heart, devotion for 4 World Cup titles or more. We need to observe decades. In which decade was Italy, France, Spain better? Who collects more decades as being first, that team is the best. Also, why are we focused only on France, Spain. What about Brazil, England, Belgium...Brazil won Copa America. This is something like EURO, maybe even stronger competition than EURO.
I didn't say two decades anywhere. My point is obvious in every post. I even said started a sentence with 'the point is'. Why don't you? So you don't think Italy are falling behind? Just say that then. Stop talking about Brazil and Germany.
My bad, you said a few which basically means a small number, like 2 or 3, also making 24 years perfectly within that range so my example is appropriate still. My point which is really really obvious is that if I want to cherry pick dates, I can make the same exact argument for Brazil and Germany as you have by cherry picking dates for Italy. My point stands and I will continue elaborating on it if I choose. Your argument could also have worked equally well had you said "few years" and cherry picked 2008-2012 for Spain as they'd done relatively little before that precious golden era with Xavi and Iniesta and almost negligible afterwards, even being eliminated by a weak Italy in the process in one of the three tournaments that have ensued since. And given that you're just using tournament wins as your measure my observation is as relevant in that time period as yours is within your selected time period where you even chose to ignore a trophy won by Italy from when you started calculating (1982).
The cherry season ended around the holiday of St. Pietro, 29th June. Everything after is much more artificial, at least in parts where people have actual four seasons. Maybe warmer / tropical areas have different time range.
I was thinking the same thing. It's very easy to pick a certain date to bolster a slanted argument. If we take the results starting from 1982 (and lets remember that Spain only won one Euro before that, and France nothing), it would look far closer. And lets be honest, no one cares about second place, semi finals, or quarter finals etc... So essentially since 1982... Spain: 1 WC, 2 EC... Total: 3 France: 2 WC, 2 EC... Total 4 Italy: 2 WC, 0 EC... Total: 2 Germany: 2 WC, 1 EC... Total 3 England: 0 WC, 0 EC... Total 0 No other European nation has won more than one title...all in the Euro's. Not much difference IMO. And let's remember that Italy beat Germany and France for their two WC wins, and knocked out Spain from the Euro's with one of the worst midfields Conte was able to muster.