Arafat Gravely Ill

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Cascarino's Pizzeria, Oct 9, 2003.

  1. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
  2. Richth76

    Richth76 New Member

    Jul 22, 1999
    Washington, D.C.
    Maybe there is a god. When this guy kicks it, you won't see me cry. Now if the rest of the unholy triumverate would follow suit. (I'm looking at you OBL and you Hussein).
     
  3. Malaga CF fan

    Malaga CF fan Member

    Apr 19, 2000
    Fairfax, VA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This should be interesting, especially if he dies. It begs to wonder "What if?..." What if Arafat was no longer involved in the Palestinian/Israeli peace process? What if removing his influence has a positive effect on peace negotiations? In some ways, many, especially in the West believe Arafat is one of the chief roadblocks on the way to peace in that region. What happens when he is gone? It should be interesting.

    But the other question out there would be...What if his death changes nothing?
     
  4. Finnegan

    Finnegan Member

    Sep 5, 2001
    Portland Oregon
    His death will not change anything IMHO. And that is unfortunate. I think hard-line Israeli's and their American surpporters are going to be in for a nasty surprise when they realize that perhaps, just perhaps that the anger and hatred directed towards them is based on their policies towards the Palestinian people and not on the actions of one leader.
     
  5. mannyfreshstunna

    mannyfreshstunna New Member

    Feb 7, 2003
    Naperville, no less
    Game.Set.Match. The victor is Rich.
     
  6. Richth76

    Richth76 New Member

    Jul 22, 1999
    Washington, D.C.
    His death will change everything. Abbas couldn't get anything done because the old man was in the way. As soon as he's gone, the new Palestinian leader will have to look at the future and shape his policy around what is right, not what Arafat says or does.

    I may be naive for thinking this, but things will change. For the better, I don't know, but they will change.
     
  7. Finnegan

    Finnegan Member

    Sep 5, 2001
    Portland Oregon
    I guess I am more cynical about the whole situation than you. I hope you are right for the sake of peace.

    However, as long as Israel keeps building walls and settlements the conditions that breed these suicide bombers will exist. Not saying that their terrorist actions are okay but no matter who is in charge on the Palestinian side, groups like Hamas will hold sway as long as the conditions are there.

    Israel needs to be the "bigger man" in this situation and pull back. Maybe then a moderate Palestinian leader will have a chance to lead.

    Young men and woman will stop blowing themselves up when they see some future.
     
  8. house18

    house18 Member

    Jun 23, 2003
    St. Louis, MO
    I think it all depends on who gains power. If it is a known terrorist who just wants Israel gone then nothing changes, but if it is someone with the best interests of his people then everything changes. Arafat was probably hurdle number one to the peace process. One of the biggest things that comes out of this is that if/when he dies he won't be a martyr killed by the Israelis.

    Now on a personal note: I am sure Sardinia (the poster, not the island!) will come up with some way that Israel is behind this and that Arafat actually personally owns all of the Middle East land!
     
  9. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Which is why an educated woman with a law degree cold-heartedly walked into a Palestinian/Israeli restaurant and blew herself & 20 innocent people to bits. Sometimes pat answers don't explain everything.
     
  10. jamison

    jamison Member

    Sep 25, 2000
    NYC
    Great, you've just ended the need for this entire forum. ;).


    I don't think anyone can possibly know what will happen, but I agree with the above sentiments that Isreal (and the US) need to step back, take the high road and use this as a turning point for honest collabrative negotiations for a future palestinian state, not as a chance to stomp on them because they don't have a leader to fight back with.

    To me, the thing that doesn't get talked about enough is the Palestinian economy. They have no oil, no natural resouces to speak of. Tourism is out (jerusalem yes, rest of gaza no, large parts of west bank, no). It's pretty hard to have a legitimate state when huge parts of your workforce take the bus across the border to work in Isreal.

    Fixing the politics is huge, but the politics isn't going to get people food every week, only a job and a solid economy can do that.
     
  11. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    And blowing people up in the country that provides all these jobs is doing exactly what for the Palestinian economy again?

    Since Arafat & the other sock puppets they have as "leaders" over there are not forthcoming enough to encourage Palestinians that they can get much more from Israel by negotiations & not bombs, then the building of a security fence and the targeted assassination of Palestinian terrorists will continue.

    If you live in a nice neighborhood that borders a run-down area and people were getting mugged, raped & killed, would you expect your local police force to hold back & say "well, the criminals have their REASONS for doing this." It's nonsense for Israel to do the same.
     
  12. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    Better than 72 virgins?
     
  13. Sardinia

    Sardinia New Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Sardinia, Italy, EU
    The educated woman with a law degree did that for revenge, "They bastards killed my brother, they bastards killed my cousin (fiancee), they bastards are killing my ppl".

    The exact same reasoning common israelis do with their support to dumb retaliations.

    If hamas and jihad had f16s and apaches probably they used them instead.

    Not that this would make it become good.

    Ben, I don't think a woman is really thrilled with that "virgins" stuff.

    And "an educated woman with a law degree" doesn't exactly match with the notion of a fundamentalist society.
     
  14. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002
    Nor a person "with no future" She was, however, a very shrewd choice to carry out this mission.
     
  15. house18

    house18 Member

    Jun 23, 2003
    St. Louis, MO
    So if suicide bombers of known origin were setting off bombs in cafe's and on buses killing many innocent people in Sardinia you would feel that it was dumb for your government to attack leaders of the terror orginization? It's sad that you have such a narrow focus that you can't even see things that are common sense to anyone. I assume that you feel the US going after the Taliban after 9/11 is just a "dumb retaliation as well.
     
  16. Finnegan

    Finnegan Member

    Sep 5, 2001
    Portland Oregon
    i think what us americans seem to have forgotten since 9/11 is the context and history of the palestinian/israeli conflict.

    We see terrorist-like actions in the form of suicide bombers and our first reaction is knee-jerk support of israel.

    of course the situation is alot more complicated then that. Remember when the intifada was a bunch of teenagers chucking rocks? Where did that get them? Israel just kept taking land, putting in illegal settlements (in violation of many a UN Resolution - something Bush seems to convienently ignore when citing the Iraq resolution) and setting up check points.

    So when the palestinians up the ante by engaging in terrorist activities it must be taken in the context of the intifada history.

    OH and i meant by the "not future" bit alot more of the economic and political repression than anything. law degree is great but if you can't get a job, you live under constant curfew and your brother gets offed i think you will tend to have a different view of the situation.
     
  17. Sardinia

    Sardinia New Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Sardinia, Italy, EU
    Last night I had a nightmare, hundreds of thousands of ugly house18s invaded Sardinia to create their home18land.

    Homework:
    Meditate on
    "Why judges have to be impartial and absolutely not involved in the issue they have to judge".
     
  18. DoyleG

    DoyleG Moderator
    Staff Member

    FC Edmonton
    Canada
    Jan 11, 2002
    Victoria, BC
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Arafat became a liabilty to the "Palestinian Cause" when the sided with Hussein during the first Gulf War. Hundreds of thousands of "Palestinians" were expelled from Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and other Gulf states in retaliation.

    One would see groups like Hezbollah and Hamas taking bites out of the PLO when Arafat kicks the can.
     
  19. Sardinia

    Sardinia New Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Sardinia, Italy, EU
    psss... analyst.... hezbollah are lebanese, shia lebanese.
     
  20. BenReilly

    BenReilly New Member

    Apr 8, 2002

    HDI rank:

    98 Occupied Palestinian Territories 0.731
    106 Iran, Islamic Rep. of 0.719
    110 Syrian Arab Republic 0.685
    120 Egypt 0.648


    For what it's worth:

    7 United States 0.937
    21 Italy 0.916
    22 Israel 0.905
     
  21. house18

    house18 Member

    Jun 23, 2003
    St. Louis, MO
    So what's your excuse then?
     
  22. DoyleG

    DoyleG Moderator
    Staff Member

    FC Edmonton
    Canada
    Jan 11, 2002
    Victoria, BC
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    This comming from a terrorist supporter.

    Go Figure.
     
  23. Sardinia

    Sardinia New Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Sardinia, Italy, EU
    2.

    I am now beginning a campaign to count those who agree with the clever notion (really a great page in the history of mankind) that an entire ppl is collectively terrorist.
     
  24. house18

    house18 Member

    Jun 23, 2003
    St. Louis, MO
    most of us aren't talking about a whole people just certain groups and some people consider you to be a supporter of these terrorists since all you do is condemn Israel in any situation and never condemn the terrorists. This would make you a terrorist supporter in many peoples eyes. prove them wrong...if you can.
     
  25. Sardinia

    Sardinia New Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Sardinia, Italy, EU
    I condamn the deliberate attacks targeting civilians. i ever did. Perform a search if you don't believe it.

    I consider the other palestinian fighters to be as legitimate as IDF.

    But being them legitimate doesn't mean they're smart.

    It is not a smart strategy to confront IDF, I told more than once that palestinians should use gandhian non violent fight.

    When will some proisraelis stop to denigrate the interlocutor rather than discuss the various points?
     

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