Anyway to spice up CCL?

Discussion in 'CONCACAF Champions League' started by waltlantz, Jul 4, 2014.

  1. waltlantz

    waltlantz Member

    Jul 6, 2010
    I often hear it quoted in forums that the CCL is a money loser. Besides financially strapped countries why is that and is there anything you can do to make it.a money maker?

    I mean it wont ever match UEFA or Copa Lib but it seems like even the AFC is more of a player in its home market.
     
  2. jared9999

    jared9999 Member+

    Jan 3, 2005
    Pachuca, Hidalgo
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Teams outside Mexico getting a lot better, and not just MLS teams
     
  3. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The tournament needs to go back to a more random draw. Separating MLS clubs from Mexican clubs in the group play is foolish. They are trying to contrive a rivalry there. It needs to happen more naturally. And occasional early round matchups between the 2 would help for the excitement of the early rounds (at least for fans in the US).
     
  4. NoeMH

    NoeMH New Member

    Apr 28, 2013
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Woul
    would be good to go back to the old format with 8 groups of 4. This format of 3 teams per group is not appalling and the way teams qualify is kind of confusing and a draw back for teams that end up winning on the goal difference. Example being Chivas who scored more goals but tied with Xelaju in points. oh yeah, and MLS teams have to be put in groups with Mexican a clubs. CONCACAF is trying to bring the Mexico vs MLS club rivalry in the knockout stages and to assure MLS teams in quarters of the tournament at the least. As said above, the group draw has to be more natural and not deprecate the clubs from these 2 leagues.
     
  5. youngorst

    youngorst Member

    Jun 26, 2014
    Bend, Oregon
    I think they need to allow about 32 teams in but only have 16 make the group stage. I'm not gonna go into how many teams each association should get or where they should enter but right now you just have too many teams that have no real chance of advancing. Give them their bids but make them earn their way to the group stage.
    Once at the group stage it should be 4 groups of 4 with the top 2 teams advancing to the knockout rounds.
    I think with a system like this you'd have a group stage that is actually interesting (Mexican/MLS teams would match up there as well.

    8 teams would automatically enter at the group stage:
    8 teams would enter in preliminary round 2
    16 teams would enter in preliminary round 1

    Preliminary rounds would be aggregate knockout based

    Entries at different stages would be determined on a rating system of the countries
     
  6. youngorst

    youngorst Member

    Jun 26, 2014
    Bend, Oregon
    I'm gonna add to my idea some.

    8 teams that would advance straight to group stage (as an example, might change based on rankings):

    Mexico #1
    Mexico #2
    USA #1
    USA #2
    Canada
    Costa Rica #1
    Honduras #1
    Guatemala #1

    8 teams that begin in preliminary round 2

    Mexico #3
    Mexico #4
    USA #3
    USA #4
    Panama #1
    El Salvador #1
    Costa Rica #2
    Honduras #2

    16 teams that begin in preliminary round 1

    Mexico #5
    USA #5
    Guatemala #2
    Guatemala #3
    El Salvador #2
    El Salvador #3
    Costa Rica #3
    Honduras #3
    Nicaragua
    Belize
    Caribbean #1
    Caribbean #2
    Caribbean #3
    Caribbean #4
    Defending champ/Top available team from that association if champ qualified
    Defending runner up/Top available team from that association if champ qualified

    With this format the little guys still get access but by the group stage you should have the big boys battling it out, teams would be match upped by random draw in preliminary rounds (teams from same association cannot meet) and once you reach the group stage they will be spread out across 4 groups. Only way a group can have 2 teams from 1 association is if 5 make it to the final 16.

    This means that a Mexico vs. USA battle could occur right out of the gate and is all but assured in the group stage.

    At the end of the group stage the top 2 teams in each group advance and its knockout from there.
     
  7. Sebsasour

    Sebsasour Member+

    New Mexico United
    May 26, 2012
    Albuquerque NM
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know this isn't exactly a helpful answer but there's not really a lot you can do with quality of teams you have. The only change I can really think of is having the MLS and LIga MX teams play in the group stage to add a little more excitement to the round.

    Speaking as an MLS fan, the preliminary round just feels like a way to see which single MLS chokes in the first round. Outside of that it's just a formality while I wait for the Liga MX vs MLS matchups.... Which is about a 7 month wait from when the tourney actually starts.

    Outside of that one change, the tournament is what it is.
     
  8. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Or back to the 4 groups of 4.
     
    Owen Thornhill repped this.
  9. Athazagoraphobia

    Jul 28, 2012
    Vancouver
    Club:
    CF Atlas Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    That's great and all but why would you give the MLS teams the same weight as Liga MX teams when it clearly hasn't been the case? I say let them earn it.
     
    AMLO2018 and It's called FOOTBALL repped this.
  10. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I kind of like having more than 16 teams (24 now). I do NOT like the groups of 3 though. 6 groups of 4, with top 2 2nd place teams qualifying for the quarters? There has got to be a way to make it work.
     
  11. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let's say there were 6 groups of 4. The groups with a Mexican club would make it harder for the second place team to be one of the best second place teams, and the groups with CFU clubs would make it easier for the second place team to be one of the best second place teams. In the first CCL format an MLS club could advance to the Quarterfinals by finishing ahead of every non-Mexican opponent, but with your idea that wouldn't always be enough. I think the group difficulty could vary too much to make taking some second place teams fair. If there were 6 groups of 4, I would take the top 2 in each group to the knockout rounds with the top 4 group winners going to the Quarterfinals and 8 teams playing in the First Knockout Round (Round of 12 if you want to call it that). This would require 2 more matchdays, but it would be the same amount of matchdays as when the CCL had a qualifying round. Of course, the MLS clubs wouldn't like it because they would have 6 CCL games late in the MLS regular season and having four knockout rounds means a shorter offseason for MLS clubs before the CCL resumes and/or the CCL would end later (closer to when the UEFA Champions League ends) which would be fine with me. CONCACAF doesn't have enough good clubs to have a 32 club Group Stage and there isn't a great way of getting from 24 clubs to 8.
     
  12. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So what? There is no way to make everything equal. The World Cup groups aren't equal. It's a competition. Sometimes you get an easier group. Sometimes you get a more difficult group. Life isn't fair. Plus, we used to have 2 more dates for the group stage in this competition. That would be nothing we haven't already had.
     
  13. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In the World Cup the same number of teams advance from each group. Your idea of advancing 2 out of 6 third place clubs to the CCL Quarterfinals is kind of like if the World Cup advanced 4 out of 8 second place teams in which case USA would have been eliminated in the Group Stage because four second place teams had more points than them. Then the stoppage time goal USA allowed to Portugal would have been a big deal.
     
  14. youngorst

    youngorst Member

    Jun 26, 2014
    Bend, Oregon
    I expanded it based on what the countries currently get. They both get 4 now, I bumped that to 5 for each. Same now, same in the new system.

    But notice the last 2 bids

    These slots are flexible, if Mexico puts 1 team in the final they get an extra bid the next time, 2 teams in the final they get 2 more bids
     
  15. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep. And again, so what? Those are the breaks. WC groups are notoriously different in terms of the quality of teams, because pots are separated so ridiculously. So I just don't find this as offensive as others do I suppose. And it brings a bit of mystery/intrigue into the tournament. Whatever the case, 16 teams aren't enough. But this 3 per group thing is really awkward. Having teams play on completely different weeks with a team sitting on the sideline not playing during that date is really silly to me. It makes the competition far more problematic and unbalanced than having the best 2 2nd place finishers go through. But I'm not married to the idea. It was just a thought anyway.
     
  16. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't love groups of 3, but there is the incentive of knockout round seeding if you've clinched advancing before your last game. I like groups of 3 better than six groups of 4 with 2 second place clubs advancing. The scenarios of what a club needs to do to advance could get very complicated to figure out and explain your way. We'll have to agree to disagree.
     
    Unak78 and jared9999 repped this.
  17. dinamo_zagreb

    dinamo_zagreb Member+

    Jun 27, 2010
    San Jose, CA / Zagreb, Croatia
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    16 teams in group stage, 13 with direct qualification, 6 in preliminary stage

    Berth allocation
    MEX 4 = 4 berths
    USA 3 and CAN 1 = 4 berths
    CRC 2 and HON 2 = 4 berths
    best UNCAF nation (coefficient for last three seasons) = 1 berth
    remaining UNCAF nations (4) + CFU Championship finalists (2) in playoff for remaining (total 6 teams) = 3 berths

    Draw rules
    MEX teams in pot 1, USA+CAN in pot 2, CRC+HON in pot 3, remaining teams in pot 4.
    Teams from same nation or league (American and Candian teams from MLS) can't be drawn in same group.
    Domestic champions from pots 1-3 can't be drawn in same group - each group contains (only) one national champion

    Format
    Preliminary stage
    6 teams in 3 ties, over two legs, winners progress to Group stage
    played July-August
    Group stage
    4 groups of 4 teams, top two progress
    played August-October
    Championship
    8 teams, knock-out over two legs in each round
    played March - May
     
  18. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_FIFA_World_Cup#Ranking_of_third-placed_teams

    And the US advanced in 1994 by being one of the best third-place teams. Hell, the Gold Cup also lets third-placed teams through. Cuba made it to the quarterfinals by virtue of being in the same group as Belize...and there's nothing wrong with that.
     
  19. It's called FOOTBALL

    LMX Clubs
    Mexico
    May 4, 2009
    Chitown
    For starters, stop giving the MML protection against Mexican teams. It's absolutely ridiculous that they get coddled that way. Leave all of pot B exposed to be drawn against a Mex team.

    Other than that, the CCL could use some better marketing. Make some funny commercials, a theme song, anything to give it character and appeal. Put CONCACHAMPIONS in the center billboard rather than CONCACAF Champions League. It's something different and it shows that we're not just a copycat of the UCL.
     
    LouisianaViking07/09 and AMLO2018 repped this.
  20. jared9999

    jared9999 Member+

    Jan 3, 2005
    Pachuca, Hidalgo
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    funny commercials?

    just make better commercials
     
  21. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    ftfy
     
    Daniel from Montréal repped this.
  22. sweethome_bama

    Jul 21, 2013
    Orange County
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mml?
     
  23. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mickey Mouse League, a derogatory term for MLS.
     
  24. Unak78

    Unak78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 17, 2007
    PSG & Enyimba FC
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria
    #24 Unak78, Aug 13, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014
    Bottom line the competition isn't going to be more popular until more teams that aren't Mexican start winning it. That means that the rest of CONCACAF needs to improve whether that's an American, Costa Rican, or Honduran team. When fans and sponsors start seeing it as a more competitive competition, then it will start to generate more interest. This is simply going to take time. There is no quick fix for this, it just will have to take time. If that takes a decade so be it. Playing in the competition will help to improve the Confederation.
     
  25. coppercanuck

    coppercanuck New Member

    Mar 21, 2008
    Doesn't Mexico what it's best teams to play in South America? I feel like they like to qualify for World Cup via CONCACAF but have their clubs play in CONMEBOL. I'd like to see a more level playing field or better qualifying for the CFU teams. Not sure they have the money to play with the MEX. I'd hope that a couple of qualifiers would put some money in their pockets.
     
    Unak78 repped this.

Share This Page