Anyone else worried about the upcoming elections.....

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by purojogo, May 31, 2004.

  1. purojogo

    purojogo Member

    Sep 23, 2001
    US/Peru home
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    and how the votes are counted?

    http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/05/13/dented.diebold.ap/
    Voting machine business stormy for Diebold (from May 14)
    "Diebold's e-voting system was first stung by criticism when a voter rights advocate, Bev Harris, managed to obtain the company's software blueprints, known as source code, on an unprotected Internet site in early 2003. Later that year, an unidentified hacker broke into a Diebold server and stole software, e-mails and other internal documents.

    And during the primaries, vote counts in Maryland were delayed because of modem glitches, and machines in much of California's San Diego County malfunctioned, potentially disenfranchising hundreds of voters."

    http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1084316008117
    Count Crisis?
    Elections official warns of glitches that may scramble vote auditing
    (from MAy 13)

    ....
    "One of the biggest complaints about touch-screen voting systems is that it is impossible to do a true recount of each vote using touch-screen machines unless the electronic machines are specially equipped with a voter-verified paper trail system.

    But Florida Secretary of State Glenda Hood, who was appointed by Gov. Jeb Bush, has opposed the printers as unnecessary, and the GOP-dominated Legislature resisted Democratic efforts this past session to authorize them. "


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1160482,00.html
    (from March)
    Comment
    The hacks in the machine

    "The electronic voting story may be nothing more than a case of engineering incompetence blended with corporate greed living alongside political expediency. On the other hand, it may be more sinister. "Those who cast the votes decide nothing," said Josef Stalin. "Those who count the votes decide everything."

    http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0828-08.htm
    Published on Thursday, August 28, 2003 by the Cleveland Plain Dealer
    Voting Machine Controversy
    by Julie Carr Smyth

    COLUMBUS - The head of a company vying to sell voting machines in Ohio told Republicans in a recent fund-raising letter that he is "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year.



    http://archive.salon.com/tech/feature/2004/02/09/voting_machines/index.html
    (Feb. )
    Will the election be hacked?
    A Salon special report reveals how new voting machines could result in a rigged presidential race -- and we'd never know
    ....Roy Barnes, the defeated Democratic governor, says that blaming his loss on voting machines is "ridiculous." And, to be sure, there is no evidence proving malfeasance, and there probably never will be. The only trouble is, the state cannot furnish any definitive evidence to show that the 2002 election was not fraudulent. Proving that the machines didn't malfunction, or that they weren't hacked, is impossible. And since scores of computer scientists say that voting systems are vulnerable to attack, and because activists have raised legitimate concerns about election equipment vendors' politics and processes, Jekot's fears have come to seem, to many, entirely reasonable.
    ....
    "But on Election Day this November, more than 20 percent of American voters will cast their ballots on paperless electronic machines; voters across the nation will encounter them during the primaries. Critics of touch-screen systems point to the controversy surrounding the vote in Georgia as a sign of things to come nationally. If there's an upset in a close presidential race, will we be able to trust it? Ironically, the paperless systems were supposed to restore trust in a democracy that saw the presidency hang by a few thousand chads in Florida three years ago. In Georgia, and increasingly across the nation, they're in danger of doing quite the opposite."



    SO, Will everything be properly in place for the November elections? Will we have fair and balanced elections?
     
  2. verybdog

    verybdog New Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    Houyhnhnms
    I have a headache.
     
  3. purojogo

    purojogo Member

    Sep 23, 2001
    US/Peru home
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    http://archive.salon.com/tech/feature/2003/09/23/bev_harris/
    An open invitation to election fraud
    (Sept 2003)
    "Tell me about the flaw you uncovered in the Diebold system.

    Well, we uncovered a few problems in the memos, but the first one that we published specifically supported the flaw that I wrote about in July of 2003. And to my surprise these memos admitted they were aware of the flaw, and it was actually brought to their attention by Ciber labs -- which is a certifier -- in October 2001, and they made a decision not to fix it.

    So it was brought to their attention two years ago?

    Right.

    So what was the flaw?

    Specifically the flaw was that you can get at the central vote-counting database through Microsoft Access. They have the security disabled. And when you get in that way, you are able to overwrite the audit log, which is supposed to log the transactions, and this [audit log] is one of the key things they cite as a security measure when they sell the system.

    So you can break in and then hide your tracks.

    You don't even need to break in. It will open right up and in you go. You can change the votes and you can overwrite the audit trail. It doesn't keep any record of anything in the audit trail when you're in this back door, but let's say you went in the front door and you didn't want to have anything you did there appear anywhere -- you can then go in the backdoor and erase what you did. "
    .....
    "OK, so we should talk about how Diebold responded to your posting these memos.

    As soon ... a few days after we posted them they sent us a cease-and-desist letter -- interestingly authenticating the memos and laying claim to them, telling us that they were copyrighted. So they claimed copyright and they told us to take them off the Web.

    Right. By claiming copyright they're saying they own them, so that seems to indicate they are authentic memos.

    Exactly. "

    I know some of these articles were written months ago, but the issue's importance and the pace at which it is being taken care of (if at all, on a state by state case, whichever way) interests me.....
     
  4. purojogo

    purojogo Member

    Sep 23, 2001
    US/Peru home
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interesting.....
    ok, so i guess people (voters) consider this a non-issue, or have great faith in our election process being error free, or at least not flawed enough for worry..... After all, what could possibly go wrong? ;)
     
  5. speedcake

    speedcake Member

    Dec 2, 1999
    Tampa
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Honestly, what could POSSIBLY go wrong?! The mere thought boggles the mind!
     
  6. IntheNet

    IntheNet New Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    Blackburn Rovers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    hey... it was only Florida in the last elections that caused all the problems so the obvious solution is... forget Florida... until they learn to vote! Everyone else in nation can vote as normal and well accept as granted that all of Florida is going to vote for George anyway.

    IntheNet
     
  7. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you forgot Florida in total, Gore would be president today
     
  8. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    There's an upcoming election. Oh...that's what all those stupid ads are for. In that case, I'm voting for the guy with the coolest commecials. Unfortunately Louie The Lizard didn't get the Green Party nomination. How, I don't know.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. IntheNet

    IntheNet New Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    Blackburn Rovers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Matt in the Hat:

    Ok... can you tell me with a straight face and non-alcohol impaired that you would rather have Gore in White House? Really?

    IntheNet
     
  10. speedcake

    speedcake Member

    Dec 2, 1999
    Tampa
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Then Bush? Or as oppossed to what other options? Is this a serious question? Or is it a trick question? Or both?
     
  11. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As I hate both parties, I would prefer gridlock over what we have today. So yes.
     
  12. TheWakeUpBomb

    TheWakeUpBomb Member

    Mar 2, 2000
    New York, NY
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Finally! Galt can now utilize a new theory to explain the Perdue romp.
     
  13. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Personally, I'm absolutely baffled as to why so many election officials have opposed the addition of a printed paper trail to these touch screen voting machines.

    Even if there is nothing shady happening with these machines, having the paper trail would avoid even the slightest hint of impropriety. And since the public vote is the cornerstone of this society, shouldn't we do what we can to ensure that results are above reproach?

    Otherwise, we're just another banana republic.
     
  14. TheWakeUpBomb

    TheWakeUpBomb Member

    Mar 2, 2000
    New York, NY
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Completely agree. This seems to be the simplest solution, and it would keep everyone from yammering on with their conspiracy theories about Diebold.
     
  15. speedcake

    speedcake Member

    Dec 2, 1999
    Tampa
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I do as well. Hopefully the issue will be resolved before election time. Just in case I think I'll be sure and have some popcorn handy. Oh yeah, great reminder to head on down to the embassy and pick up my absantee ballot.
     
  16. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I don't believe he can hold the office. You have to be at least 35.

    I don't think adding a paper trail to Diablo machines will do that much good. First, many of the mistakes and corruption are of a type that these ballots will not catch. Second, and most important, receipt-type ballots are hard to double-check. They are not machine readable, and will not be that easy to read by checkers. Any recount will be require large amounts of work, require many people, and be full of error itself.

    My favorite ballot scheme is the one used in San Mateo county right now. It uses large Scantron-style sheets. It is easy to vote, cheap, simple, and leaves a very clear re-count vehicle because you have the original voting mechanism at all times. If you doubt a particular counting machine, just use others - or even ones by another company, as this type of optical scanning machinery is hardly complicated or proprietary.

    I can't wait until the next election to see how much Diabold can swing the vote towards Bush the Younger. It's going to be soooo cool. It isn't very often that you know beforehand that a coup is about to take place, as well as the very mechanism that they will use to do it. It feels like I am in a movie.
     

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