BRAzIL Pesquisa Datafolha, 2007 1. Flamengo – 32,6 millions (17%) 2. Corinthians – 23 millions (12%) 3. São Paulo – 15,3 millions (8%) ARGENTINA Equis Investigación Social, 2006 1. Boca Juniors – 16,4 millions (40,4%) 2. River Plate – 13,2 millions (32,6%) 3. Independiente – 2,2 millions (5,5%) SPAIN Centro de Investigaciones Sociológicas, 2007 1. Real Madrid – 13,2 millions (32,7%) 2. Barcelona – 10,4 millions (25,7%) 3. Valencia – 2,1 millions (5,3%) GERMANY Sportfive, 2007 1. Bayern de Munique – 10,5 millions (12,8%) 2. Werder Bremen – 5,7 millions (6,9%) 3. Schalke 04 – 4,3 millions (5,2%) ITALY Instituto Demos-Eurisko, 2007 1. Juventus – 16,3 millions (28%) 2. Milan – 13,4 millions (23%) 3. Internazionale – 9,3 millions (16%) JAPAN Video Research Ltd., 2006 1. Kashima Antlers – 12,3 millions (9,7%) 2. Gamba Osaka – 11,9 millions (9,4%) 3. Jubilo Iwata – 11,7 millions (9,2%) MÉXICO Grupo Reforma, 2007 1. Chivas – 30,8 millions (28%) 2. América – 26,4 millions (24%) 3. Cruz Azul e Pumas – 13,2 millions (12%) GREAT BRITAIN Roy Morgan International, 2006 1. Manchester United – 4,2 millions (6,9%) 2. Liverpool – 3,1 millions (5,1%) 3. Arsenal – 2,6 millions (4,35%) PORTUGAL Liga Portuguesa de Futebol Profissional, 2003 1. Benfica – 4,1 millions (38,8%) 2. Porto – 2,6 millions (24,4%) 3. Sporting – 2,1 millions (20,2%) FRANCE Institut National de la Statistique et des Études Économiques (Insee), 2006 1. Olympique – 10,2 millions (16%) 2. Lyon – 9,6 millions (15%) 3. Paris Saint-Germain – 3,2 millions (5%) HOLLAND TNS-NIPO, 2007 1. Ajax – 4,3 millions (26%) 2. Feyenoord – 3,8 millions (23%) 3. PSV – 2,1 millions(13%) The number of supporters was calculated according to the percentages appointed by the most recent researches in each of those countries and by the US Census Bureau populational projections for 2008.
Useless argument. You can only use percentages. Brazil has 185m people. I'm sure some team in India or China has a lot more supporters then Flamengo.
I said 32,6 million...people. And that's not an 'argument' or a 'percentage', you imbecil (and that imbecility is proper of people from the Northern Hemisphere, sorry for my sincerity). Just raw data. Either you don't know what's 'percentage' or you don't know anything about football. Or both. Besides, for your illustration, football is a sport that NEVER in milemniums has ever been pacticed in those longinquous oriental lands... Piece of advice: Try icehockey (Badgers however are soo much better than you)... You're to us just like another minority group (MU, Liverpool, RM, Corinthians, Boca Juniors, Milan and all Australian 'abbos') are: mere 'boomerang'' throwers... Only thing we're all also sure is that you're jealous of the most popular team on Earth ...
I should have added: Because naturally my Ucranian grandparents, several of our BS Forum members, my ex-Wisconsin girlfriend Diane and Hendrixforpope aren’t … Maybe it’s too late for that however - but I apologize. You got me irritated though with that ‘you can only use percentages’, when percentages are so obviously secondary elements of the data above presented. I see you must have meant that, since Brazil has a greater population, their clubs are also bound to have more rooters… What could even be logical if in fact it didn’t hide a fallacy. If we have way more people, we naturally also have way more clubs to share those ‘multitudes’ too, don’t you think so?... Percentages only reveal the relative superiority of a team over others in an internal scénarium. What really matters in those data thus are not percentages but, precisely, the raw amount of rooters. And that’s what’s impressive about Flamengo - its astounding and frightening gigantism if compared to all the other ‘giants’ of world football.. The ‘India’ and ‘China’ arguments don’t hold, exactly by the same reason: precisely because the amount of clubs is small - since football is not an important sport in those countries – you might erroneously imply that they must have large amounts of rooters. If we consider though that the definition of a rooter essentially resides in the intense admiration of a person towards his/her club, and if we all know that there is no interest whatsoever in football in those countries, we assume that what you call ’rooters’ in countries like that don’t display enough of that essential ‘intense admiration’ towards their clubs (?) required to tipify them as such. Obvious conclusion: there are NO football rooters in those countries. Very few ones deserve that name. Hindus are great at charming snakes, Chinese at rotating plates on rods ... Innumerable as they might be they simply are insignificant sand grains rolling on a footballistic…desert.
No they don't. The most fervent support in India are in the most soccer-friendly parts around Calcutta. They don't compare. Incidentally, this is also ground zero for India's massive support from Brazil. KingKong- please don't insult the Northern Hemisphere!
I apologize: we say our imbecilities too, and calling the NH imbecil was as imbecil as - and a SA one. Besides I ended up insulting my own 'Northern Hemisphere' too (since half of me is Ucranian) ... Anyway I think that using other countries fans' 'support' to prove you're more popular is very subjective. You can just assume that a foreign country or another has preference for MU, Milan, Flamengo or Real based on generally biased hear-say opinions. You can't prove it. The only way you can acurately compute the amount of rooters of a club is through reliable census made within the boundaries of its own country.
No problem KK- just bothering you. On that subject of estimation, I would really like an estimation of the number of fans of the Brazilian National Team. It has to be like 1.5 billion people, possibly the most popular thing on earth.
Not right now, I guess ... BTW, in those census they also compute the native people 'who just root for the Brz NT'. Still Flamengo, Corinthians, São Paulo, Vasco, Palmeiras, Fluminense (in this order + or -) do have more rooters than 'them' ...
What fascinates me about Flamengo... 1) I agree they are (domestically) the best supported team in the world 2) How can Flamengo build on this position because it clearly hasn't translated into on-field success in the Brazilian tournament or Liberatores over the past 10 years 3) Will Flamengo ever go international? It is obviously a valuable brand as the core of Rio, part of the soul of Brazilian soccer. Will they ever be able to make the jump to a global brand, like the old Hicks-Muse 2000 investment aimed to. If any team can become Manchester United South, it's Flamengo.
That's the only criterion to determine the most supported team of the worls. Anything else is mere speculation. True. Irresponsible money manipulation by opportunistic managing is a problem not only of Flamengo but of all Brz teams. It's getting better now, let's see if they keep in the right route. Being a global brand depends on a lot of money, not necessarilly of football level. Nowadays even American (LA Galaxies) and Japanese clubs (Kashima Antlers) are. Not even São Paulo (with all their organization) or Corinthians (with all the corrupt money Kia injected in them) have become international brands. What gave them projection was their world titles in 2000 and 2005. A projection that Flamengo also had in 1981, when had a team that neither São Paulo nor Corinthians or MU will ever dream of have. Better than that historic 1981 Zico's team, only Pelé's Santos, Garrincha's Botafogo, Di Stéfano's Real Madrid, Puskas' Honved, Cruyjff's Ajax, Beckenbauer's Bayern München and maybe Tostão's Cruzeiro - period.
This is basically a gloat thread, isn't it? I don't think anyone other than Flamengo fans even give a rat's ass about Flamengo's domestic "popularity". If only the number of fans was in direct correlation to the amount of success a club had
Let's first check if you're right. If out of that list we pick 4 undisputable ‘universal’ powerhouses: 1. Your 'giant' Barça (10.4 millons) 2. Real Madrid (13.2 millions), 3. Manchester United (4.2 millions), 4. Liverpool (3.2 millions) - that will give us a combined total of 10.4 + 13.2 + 4.2 + 3.2 = hmmmmmmmm, let's see = 10 + 13 + 4 + … = hmmmmmmmmmmm... = + or - 31 million… STILL, 1.2 million short of the amount of Flamengo's insignificant 'domestic' fans!... Are you sure that it's not Flamengo fans that don't give a rat's ass about the ridiculous ‘popularity’ of your ‘Barças’, ‘MUs’ etc?... Besides, in relation to your naïve affirmation: …let's check AGAIN if you're right, Your Holiness!... Still considering your 4 'giants', as an enthusiastic but conscious Flamengo rooter I can say - by checking the official stats: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercontinental_Cup_and_FIFA_Club_World_Cup_statistics ...that the only one out of those 4 that can look at us from a superior position as far as world titles are concerned is Real Madrid (3 titles). Manchester United at the most can say: 'hey, we also won one!'... But your Barcelona and Liverpool won absolutely NOTHING, my boy... Not to mention that the only times Liverpool and your Barça got to the finals, the latter took historical football lessons from São Paulo in 1992 and Internacional de Porto Alegre in 2006, and the former, besides being ridiculed by São Paulo (2005), suffered in 1981 (with its best team ever) the worst massacre a CL champion took in the hands of a Libertadores' champ: Fla 3 x 0 Liverpool - ONLY IN THE 1ST HALF - with Zico's Flamengo red-and-blacks - yes, Flamengo, Hendrixboy - in the last 45 minutes, applying on that legendary icon of European footbal the most humiliating OLÉ's of the history of the competition... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d59xjbkQ3KM And I won't even cite the fact that Flamengo is the biggest winner of national titles (5) in the most important country of world football! ... Gloat thread?... Go read your Bible, bud … ___________________________________________________________ BRAZIL Pesquisa Datafolha, 2007 1. Flamengo – 32,6 millions (17%) 2. Corinthians – 23 millions (12%) 3. São Paulo – 15,3 millions (8%) ARGENTINA Equis Investigación Social, 2006 1. Boca Juniors – 16,4 millions (40,4%) 2. River Plate – 13,2 millions (32,6%) 3. Independiente – 2,2 millions (5,5%) SPAIN Centro de Investigaciones Sociológicas, 2007 1. Real Madrid – 13,2 millions (32,7%) 2. Barcelona – 10,4 millions (25,7%) 3. Valencia – 2,1 millions (5,3%) GERMANY Sportfive, 2007 1. Bayern de Munique – 10,5 millions (12,8%) 2. Werder Bremen – 5,7 millions (6,9%) 3. Schalke 04 – 4,3 millions (5,2%) ITALY Instituto Demos-Eurisko, 2007 1. Juventus – 16,3 millions (28%) 2. Milan – 13,4 millions (23%) 3. Internazionale – 9,3 millions (16%) JAPAN Video Research Ltd., 2006 1. Kashima Antlers – 12,3 millions (9,7%) 2. Gamba Osaka – 11,9 millions (9,4%) 3. Jubilo Iwata – 11,7 millions (9,2%) MÉXICO Grupo Reforma, 2007 1. Chivas – 30,8 millions (28%) 2. América – 26,4 millions (24%) 3. Cruz Azul e Pumas – 13,2 millions (12%) GREAT BRITAIN Roy Morgan International, 2006 1. Manchester United – 4,2 millions (6,9%) 2. Liverpool – 3,1 millions (5,1%) 3. Arsenal – 2,6 millions (4,35%) PORTUGAL Liga Portuguesa de Futebol Profissional, 2003 1. Benfica – 4,1 millions (38,8%) 2. Porto – 2,6 millions (24,4%) 3. Sporting – 2,1 millions (20,2%) FRANCE Institut National de la Statistique et des Études Économiques (Insee), 2006 1. Olympique – 10,2 millions (16%) 2. Lyon – 9,6 millions (15%) 3. Paris Saint-Germain – 3,2 millions (5%) HOLLAND TNS-NIPO, 2007 1. Ajax – 4,3 millions (26%) 2. Feyenoord – 3,8 millions (23%) 3. PSV – 2,1 millions(13%)
Didn't think you would take it so hard Congrats on being a fan of the most supported club in the world and one of the most successful clubs in South America.
Hendrix- this thread is gloaty, but needs to be! All too often, fans of European teams cannot fathom the thought that another team from outside Europe is bigger than theirs. Maybe not as wealthy, but more popular. Being from Chicago I have a relatively objective view on Europe and South America, and the unsubstantiated arrogance of Euro fans is amazing. The attitude is very condesending and stems from a misguided sense of entitlement, not to mention an extreme myopic ignorance of the world. FIFA magazine had Flamengo ranked 9th in its “FIFA Clubs of the 20th Century,” tied with AC Milan, and ahead of Arsenal, Inter, and Liverpool; most fans outside of South America do not realize this and many do not want to accept it. The simple fact is that Flamengo is one of the great clubs in the world and BigSoccer members should know that; just because Flamengo’s fortunes rise and fall due to financial management and other factors doesn’t detract from its importance. Like KingKong said, the 1980’s Flamengo teams are easily among the best of all time; rarely is it acknowleged. There are a number of ways people negate the achievements of non-European teams and the population argument “Brazil has a bigger population” is always one of them. The fact is that Flamengo’s influence on the history of soccer far outstrips its population base. The list players that have worn a Flamengo shirt is truly mind-boggling, essentially comprising a concise history of the game. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Clube_de_Regatas_do_Flamengo_players Even if Brazil is the most successful national team and its club teams win the World Club Championship often, its players aren’t respected until they take over the Champions’ League and club teams. They must be validated by Europe, which is extremely annoying (there are far more Brazilians in the CL than any other European nationality). You see tons of great players at Flamengo (currently in 1st place in the Brazilian league) and other teams not respected until they take a plane to Europe, then -VIOLA- they’re great! People need to know these players are already great and they are playing for teams like Flamengo, which despite a self-importance fed by nationalistic media, are better and more popular than their team. It’s a hard lesson for many people.
Just a few players raised & consacrated in Flamengo: Júlio César-Amado-Luís Borracha (goalies) Leandro-Jorginho-Paulo Henrique-Toninho Baiano (right defenders) Domingos da Guia-Mozer-Aldair-Juan (central defenders) Júnior - Leonardo (left defenders) Zico-Zizinho-Gérson-Evaristo de Macedo-Rubens-Adílio-Djalminha-Marcelinho Carioca-Moacir-Andrade-Tita (midfielders) Joel (right-wing) Leônidas da Silva-Dida-Adriano-Henrique-Índio-Biguá (forwards) Zagallo-Júlio César-Vevé-Babá (left-wings)
Forgot Bebeto, Dequinha, Pirilo (midfields) in the list above ... Gérson and Zagallo, in spite of having their best career moments playing for Botafogo, were footballistically raised in Flamengo and won important titles for it before transferring to the rival (when Brazil was WC in 58 Zagallo had already been Rio's tri-champ for - and still belonged to - Flamengo, and Gérson, when bought by Botafogo, around 1965, had already been playing for several years in Fla's main team). And several others less important but very popular players in Brazil & Europe, Zinho (1994 champ), Sávio, Germano, Paulo Nunes etc etc... All the players listed above came directly from our 'oven' & represent the Flamengo football legacy to the world. Among them, three are in mine and many world experts' All-Time Top 11 list: Domingos da Guia, Zizinho and Leônidas da Silva. And I even left Zico aside...
So drown the ugly thing in Mendota Lake!... http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/3484/blehcaretadamenina1aqi6.jpg
Looks like you still know your Wisconsin geography Hell, even I had to "wikipedia" Lake Mendota just to make sure it was in Wisconsin
And I could have even sent her to Devil's Lake... But maybe she's a pretty girl and I'll pardon her! ... PS: Hope she's not Teso dos Bichos disguised though...