Following up on FireFan2001's question here http://www.chicitysports.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23998&p=570596 Does anybody have any more info on the possibility of Andy Pando joining the Fire (this year ;-)?
Andy Pando 14 goals is 23 games this year, not to bad and 45 goals overall in 74 games (and he's only 28). http://sports.yahoo.com/news/andy-pando-rumors-chicago-fire-mls-fan-view-073700981--mls.html http://soccernet.espn.go.com/player/_/id/128479/andy-pando?cc=5901
Goals are goals. I'd prefer to take a chance on a guy scoring in lower leagues, than a guy not scoring in higher leagues.
No they aren't. If they were, Roy Lassiter and Raul Diaz Arce would have been bought up by Man United and Barcelona respectively in 1997. It's ********ing Peru. And this guy has bounced around to 7 different teams in 9 years. He's 28 years old. You think he's a hidden gem, and no one else in South America never figured it out? He slipped under the radar from the big clubs in Argentina and Brazil? No one from Europe ever figured out that he can put the ball in the back of the net against good competition? Fine. Take your chances. I'd rather take my chances on a guy scoring goals in a higher league. Honestly, when did we sink down so low that we settle for and get excited for guys we never heard of from teams that we have never heard of from leagues we have barely heard of? When LA needed a boost mid-year to put them over the top, they sign Robbie Keane and win a championship. New York needs a forward and they get Thierry Henry. We've been dying for a ********ing forward since Ralph and Razov and we sign good for nothing waste projects like Collins John, Paulo Wanchope (who everyone knew had no cartilige left in his knee) and Federico ********ing Puppo. Why? Why can't WE go out and get someone who can actually ********ing score in a real league? I'm sick and ********ing tired of settling for some reclamation project from some backwater leagues. Germinal Beerschot? Real Garcilaso? Jesus tap dancing Christ, can we just sign someone who we actually have expectations for once? I know, I know, I'm just an "old guy" living in my "old dreams" but this is a club that, when we didn't repeat as champions, we went out and signed Hristo ********ing Stoichkov. I thought we were making progress. Midfield issues? Fine. Let's bring in Pavel Pardo and a guy in Grazzini who played in Argentina and Spain and Italy. Problems in the back? Great. Sign a guy who is a proven German international. Then, when we actually start playing some decent soccer, we go backwards. When other teams in our league look to add PROVEN players to make a push at championships, we raid Peru for their mediocre players who can't even win a spot with one of the three teams that even matter in that little backwater league. After sucking worse than we have ever sucked as a club for two years, there was actually a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel. A little ray of hope as we climbed up to 4th (as if that is something to celebrate). And then when players come available who could help put us over the top, they sign elsewhere for money that we THOUGHT was on the table here. Hell, we don't even have a clue if they ever made an effort to sign any of those guys. And while bumbling our way up to the transfer window, we let the one guy that we actually HAVE under contract bolt because we played games with his ********ing contract that unbelievably expired right in the middle of our ********ing season. I don't believe a ********ing word from this club. Family problems my ass. We treated him like shit and he showed us the middle finger as he shops himself around to Argentinian teams. You might want to take a chance on a guy scoring goals against the likes of Union Comercio and Leon de Huanuco (I dare you to tell me you have ever heard of those or most of the teams in Peru), but I don't. I want a guy who can score in MLS. We have sat on our collective asses while other teams have made trades. Trades for guys like Juan Aguadelo and Sebastian LeToux. Guys who were available in THIS league and have gone off to strengthen our opponents while we sit by and do nothing. We waste DP slots and money on worthless bench warmers who would NEVER be worth DP money without a fee. We refuse to let Pappa walk and will have a guy biding his time a la Soumare. We should have sold him after a few good games in June and used the money to bring in someone who can help us win NOW. If we sign Andy Pando, I hope he comes in here and shuts my ass up. I hope he lights it up and carries us on his big Incan shoulders to our 2nd MLS Cup. I'll gladly eat crow. But he won't. He'll be just another in a long line of "low risk high reward" nothings that are brought in here and NEVER become the high reward. Our problem isn't Andy Pando. It's Andy Hauptman. Andy, get someone in your front office who knows what the ******** they are doing. Stop spinning your wheels on cheap ass moves that you think are brilliant and NEVER work. Chiladd, pass the ********ing Malort. I need a drink.
When the ownership figured out that most (but not all) of the older fan base who experienced and expected better were no longer around and most (but not all) of the newer fans think "better than DLC" is just great, thank you. So now we'll coast along on "Hey, we're better than DLC!" for a few more years. Wonderful. Stat!
Post of the half-season. And with each passing season, our hopes and standards fall. God-dammit!, players used to seek -us- out!
A guy who played in Ligue 2 for a handful of games and then the USL first division. Not excatly a proven player from a respected league. Can we get over the bullshit opinion that the only leagues with talent are the EPL, La Liga and Serie A? Just because the guy is from a lower league doesn't mean he is no good. First of all, 28 is a full 10 years younger than some of the players recommended around here, so don't make it sound like he's going to walk into the press conference with a cane. Secondly, There isn't a single team in this league that could compete in the EPL (some might be able to avoid relegation). A few might do the same in Serie A. Point is, in a league that is not as good as the EPL, the players don't need to be as good as those from the EPL to be successes. Yes we all want Leo Messi pouring in goals, but plenty of players around the league have poured in goals after never stepping foot on the pitch for a top-league player. I'm fine if you want to turn the Fire into Aging All-Stars FC, but I would rather us find some 28 year old Peruvian player who might see this as his big chance, and want to stick around for 5,7, 10 years and become a permanent fixture and a veteran player who can add stability in a league that sees constant player turn over. Maybe he flops like Puppo did, but the great thing about signing from Peru is he probably won't cost much money. We could buy a dozen Puppos for less money than some of the DPs mentioned would cost, and even if 11 turn out to be shit, we would still end up with a good player. And as our scouting network improves, both by getting better scouts, and learning which players did and didn't succeed (here's a hint: a small forward is never going to survive this leagues' physicality.) then you might start to see 6 or 7 of those players succeed, and all of a sudden the Fire can start building a team that will stick around for years and win things. Look at how newly promoted teams fill rosters. QPR brought in 18 players when they were promoted last season, Norwich brought in 10. They don't go around splash money on one player who might pan out, they give a little to a bunch of unkowns, and if even 3 or 4 of them pan out, they have got enough of a team to survive and repeat the process.
Months ago I had suggested Diego Forlan, a proven goal scorer. He would have been a DP but a relatively affordable one. No one is suggesting we go after Messi or Drogba. Let's drop that straw man argument so I don't have to get vitriolic. I'm OK with a Collins John signing if he's not expected to save the team. The question right now is: who is the team looking to sign this transfer window to get this team over the hump?
Sure, just as soon as we get over the bullshit opinion that just because a player has played in any league south of Texas means he's going to kick ass in our poor widdle untalented MLS. Deal, everyone?
Andy Pafko? The ex-Cub from wayyy back in the day? AIN'T HE DEAD YET??? Geez, Andy really *is* scouring the Earth looking for cheap labor. ChrisM is right. Nobody here reallly knows anything about the guy. But that is the problem. The proven striker, as well as the replacements for Pappa and Grazzini, need to be as known by us as well as the guys that they are replacing for the fans to have any confidence in them, Andy, and the team in general.
Show your work. Show me guys from Peru (particularly guys who are not from the "big" 3 in Peru) that have moved onto higher leagues and have worked out. Show me foreign signings that fit your model for success. Show me when we have brought in guys to the Fire who are 27 or 28 and have stuck around for 7-10 years and have been successful. Preferably, show me guys like this who come from a league that ranks . . . where . . . maybe 8th or 9th at best in South America? You keep talking about the way you want to build a team and yet, you can't show that it has worked in MLS. The closest thing I can think of is RSL. I have repeatedly shown a road map of what has worked here at THIS club. I've shown you more than a few "old" guys who have come in between 32-34 years old and have carried us to some of our greatest successes, or in the case of Ljungberg, at least lifted us from being obnoxiously bad. The model includes these guys together with some potential national team quality young players who you hope to have around for a year or two. Berry is the only one that comes to mind at the moment. I'd be interested to hear from people more familiar with South America than I am. My guess would be that the quality of Peru might be only slightly higher than Venezuela. Could they produce a good player or two? Sure. Giovanni Savarese was not "great" but he scored some goals. When I first saw this guy and someone said he scored those goals as a 21 year old, I was a little more interested. Scoring at this rate, in Peru and with the way he has moved around, predominantly to the doormat types of teams in Peru, I'm not so excited.
Just last night I made a batch of Spirtyus soaked cherries, with these giant maraschino cherries I bought. Let them soak for two weeks and they will blow one's f'n mind. Delicious and highly potent! Everyone, carry on with the rants.
Not really, because few forwards from the lower leagues in America even succeed in MLS. Also, by your logic, pretty much every Hermann Award-level college striker would excel in MLS (or elsewhere as professionals) and, frankly, almost none of them do. See: Ali Curtis, Alecko Escandarian, Marcus Tracy, etc. Teal Bunbury is about the only Hermann award winning forward in the past 20+ years who has done anything as a professional, and he is not exactly setting MLS on fire. I think that "diamond in the rough" could be out there. Manchester United, for instance, does a great job finding players from "lower leagues" and polishing them into stars. They also have dozens of scouts and are willing and able to pay millions in transfer fees on the off-chance that one or more turn out. We can't do that, for a whole host of reasons.
If I could have repped this post twice, I would have. Great post, Chris. Especially, the part I quoted. You have nailed it there. Although I partially disagree with the "goals are goals" idea, both SixKick and Salvatore Guiseppe make points. I do agree that there are players out there who can really help the team and would not cost a mint. But they are REALLY difficult to find and require an extensive network of contacts.
There are plenty of guys that have come in from lower leagues and lit MLS up. (Diaz Arce, Cerritos, Ruiz, Ching, Montero, etc.) Obviously there have been busts as well. I'm not arguing it's a sure thing (that's why I said "take a chance on"), and I'm not happy that we will go another season without a real DP player. However, as far as flyers on internationals go, I'd rather try to pluck a scorer out and hope his play translates, rather than a Collins John type that will likely cost more and have emotional problems.
A little reality check here. QPR brought in 18 players last season, but they are backed by a friggin' Asian billionaire, Lakshim Mittal (worth $20 billion) and Malaysian (almost) billionaire, Tony Fernandez (worth $700 million). They don't flash around Chelsea or Manchester City money yet, but they have the money to spend. They are trying to do, albeit on a slightly smaller scale, what Manchester City has done. The difference between the two was that Man City was provided an awesome stadium just about the same time their multi-billionaire sheikh owner arrived. QPR is looking hard to build a new stadium to replace Loftus Road (which is, admittedly, a bit of a dump. I have seen a couple of games there, Toyota Park blows the place out of the water). If they build the stadium, they could become competitive. Or they could become Fayed, who has stuck with Fulham, made them a solid EPL team, but, do to lack of ability to expand the stadium, cannot quite break through. The next team to do it WILL be West Ham. They are (almost assuredly) taking the Olympic Stadium next year. If they can continue to solidify their ownership, they will be in great shape.