Sorry-- didn't mean you to think I was contradicting your post. I was borrowing its eminently sensible structure to hang my own rather scattershot response on...
If you want to argue that it's conceivably possible that aliens have passed thru the Solar System and we were unable to detect them... sure. No problem. But the context of this "ancient aliens" discussion is that they were actively shaping our civilizations. Sorry, that's not happening without some kind of real evidence being left behind. And Stone Age monuments that accurately mark celestial events are not evidence.
But the problem is that information can't travel faster than the speed of light either. For example, you might employ some sort of space warping to allow you to travel, in essence, faster than light. But the actual process of bending space can't go faster than the speed of light. Space is still really, really big. Really big. Really, really big. But how do you tell? And as we have been discovering recently, planets are actually pretty common. Earth only seems like a good candidate because we are already here and know how great it is. Venusish/Earthish/Marsish planets might be everywhere, and a race would have to be unimaginably close to Earth to be particularly interested in us. Our radio waves have gone out about 0.1% of the width of the Milky Way.
If we're talking about actively shaping our civilizations, I'm inclined to agree with you. Obviously the more time they spent here and the more involvement they had in human affairs, the more evidence we would expect to see.
Actually they have left some evidence, if you believe what is written in the book Slave species of god by Michael Tellinger. He writes that they have found gold mines which are close to 150k years old. Now what would man be doing mining for gold ore? One could understand alluvial gold collecting but ore mining? The process to extract gold from ore is rather complicated, is it not? Arsenic, heat, etc etc etc. Shouldn't man 150,000 years ago have been more worried with not getting eating by a tiger and staying away from bears than mining for gold ore?
Perhaps. But even if we accept the premise that there was mining for gold ore 150k years ago, I think the idea that at the time humans were more advanced than we thought is more plausible than the idea that those doing the mining were aliens.
Yes, it is very plausible but there is a problem with that. In clay tablets that were recovered from excavations in the middle east and that were later translated and linked to the Sumerian Civilization, there is clear evidence that their were in fact Aliens that were digging for gold on Earth. We believe in so many outlandish things why on earth couldn't this be true?
Sure pick up a copy of the 12th Planet by Zecharia Sitchin. In it he outlines the evidence via the translation of these clay tablets. He actually has a series of books, 8 in all if I'm not mistaken which goes into depth on this topic. Another book called Slave Species of god, by Michael Tellinger, also deals with the same situation. At one point I knew of a website that had the 12th planet on a pdf file. Unfortunately, I can't link you right now.
One of the fundamental problems is that when people think of "aliens" they think of green guys with big heads and big black eyes, blame it on fanatics and hollywood. Just putting it out there
Well, I was actually hoping that you could summarize some of the arguments so I don't have to eight or nine books on the subject.
Wait, so you don't actually have a 150000 year old mine, you only have this guy's interpretation of ancient writings? You have to realize that this guy is considered a complete crackpot by people that actually know ancient languages. His interpretations are based on his own translations, so he creates his own little world where he can make documents say whatever he needs them to say without checks against the real world or against other scholars. And when that isn't enough, he has blatantly changed quotes and modified evidence to suit his needs. When he makes pronouncements on astronomy or technology they always turn out to be foolish. Here is a commentary on 12th planet, showing his incredible range of falsehoods: http://www.skepdic.com/essays/sitchin.htm
Sitchin believes that previous translations were done in error and he is trying to straighten out earlier mistakes. If you take this into consideration then he starts to make sense. He also mentions this early in the book. Whether he's right or wrong is a different story but that there is an alternate side to the story that should not be denied or refused. As far as the 150,000 year old mines, in Slave Species of god, the author states that gold mining companies of South Africa would employ archeologists to help find these old mines (the ones mentioned in these clay tablets). The companies would then search for the mines and when found, would commence digging. Aside from gold, they also found evidence of human existance and human remains. Take it for what it's worth. You can live with your eyes shut or you can open them up and see what's out there.
In the bible, it says that God made us in his likeness and in all fairness it's probably true. He extracted his DNA and cloned us. But then again its god with a lower case 'g'. The real and true God is someone/something/somewhere else.
Whether he's right or wrong is a huge part of the story and it should be refuted if it is contrary to evidence. In fact, we try to refute everything and only the stuff that holds up to the evidence stands. So you're one of those people who thinks if we don't agree with you we're closed-minded. Got it. This is for you: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI"]YouTube- Open-mindedness[/ame]
Of course it should be denied and refused. It's wrong. You are using what the guy said to prove what the guy said is right! That is circular thinking, and is the surest way to error. If you compare it to reality, you will see it is all totally wrong. Ever since The 12th Planet has been published, South African gold production has been going down. Clearly the crackpot ideas, even if they are being used, which I doubt in the extreme, are not helping. Look, everything he says about ancient language is counter to what every other scholar says. Everything he says about astronomy is counter to what we see. Everything he says about biology and technology is counter to what we see. And he has zero - zero - evidence for anything except for his own interpretations of his own translations of things he has proven he doesn't understand that well. He has intelligently woven a story that ties a number of disparate myths together, but that doesn't mean anything. The creators of Stargate SG-1 have done the exact same thing.
spejic has already mentioned this, but this stuff has about as much to do with reality as Stargate (or Assassin's Creed). His "translations" are wrong; this isn't a matter of opinion, it's very well established. Second, Sumerians aren't from 150k years ago; try about 7k. Did they mine gold? Well, they used it, for sure, so they were getting it from somewhere. But the idea that early civilizations were mining isn't evidence that aliens were there - if they were using methods more advanced than we have, you might be getting somewhere. Remember, we're talking about a theoretical civilization with the ability to travel thru space faster than light itself.
Perhaps 150,000 years from now when people translate the writings about life in California in the 21st century they will interpret the word "Aliens" to mean "extraterrestrials" rather than "immigrants", and they will write books concluding that during our time most of the hard work was being done by people from other planets.
I'm not saying you are closed minded or anyone else for that matter, althought the fact that you picked up on this is telling. Come on stop trying to pick a fight, it's very immature. I'm not trying to prove anything. I was just relaying information from a book that I read. Later on, I tried to provide the reasoning for why the author interpreted things a certain way. He simply felt that the initial translations were wrong. Interesting bit of information but Sitchin wasn't the author of Slave Species of god, it was Michael Tellinger. Seems someone is a little angry. If it is in fact a myth, which I'm not saying it is or isn't, its rather a great story. In fact its a great story which covers a span of 8 or so books, over the course of 35 years. How long could someone carry on a charade of this magnitude? How much energy does one need to expend to continue with this?
You are mixing up the two books I mentioned. The information about the gold mines that I mentioned weren't from a Sitchin book but rather from the book Slave species of god by Michael Tellinger.
You are actually very right!! Sitchin makes this claim in his book and explains that the earlier translations of the tablets were infused with errors similar in content and syntax as in the example you provided. Anyway I'm not looking to argue with anyone, I was just trying to share something I had read. I didn't want it to turn into something unneccessary and ugly.
You posted something absurd, calling you out on it is not picking a fight. Granted, you did not say anything about being open or closed-minded but you should still watch that video, you're doing everything else that people in that position do - deflecting actual questions and evidence (ie being closed-minded) and insisting people look into this or that without asking for evidence. And that should just stand on its own? Pretty long actually, this argument in favor of the story's validity is absolute nonsense. If you're not looking to "argue" don't post nonsense on a public forum. I hardly think being confronted with evidence qualifies as unnecessary and ugly. If you do, this might not be the place for you. More importantly though it'll make it difficult for you to defend your posts if you feel every contrary expression is an attack.
Quote: Originally Posted by NYC_COSMOS I'm not saying you are closed minded or anyone else for that matter, althought the fact that you picked up on this is telling. Come on stop trying to pick a fight, it's very immature. You posted something absurd, calling you out on it is not picking a fight. Maybe you are right but its the way its done. Either way, I was just trying to explain Sitchin's point. I'm not saying he's right. Granted, you did not say anything about being open or closed-minded but you should still watch that video, you're doing everything else that people in that position do - deflecting actual questions and evidence (ie being closed-minded) and insisting people look into this or that without asking for evidence. Yes but I'm not trying to defend Sitchin's point, I was just trying to relay information. What you are doing is akin to "killing the messenger". Quote: I'm not trying to prove anything. I was just relaying information from a book that I read. Later on, I tried to provide the reasoning for why the author interpreted things a certain way. He simply felt that the initial translations were wrong. And that should just stand on its own? Why not? Again, you may not like Sitchin's POV but it has nothing to do with me. I was simply trying to clarify a point about Sitchin that no one seemed to understand. What you were trying to do and still are, is trying to convert Sitchin's POV into my own. Stop it. Quote: If it is in fact a myth, which I'm not saying it is or isn't, its rather a great story. In fact its a great story which covers a span of 8 or so books, over the course of 35 years. How long could someone carry on a charade of this magnitude? How much energy does one need to expend to continue with this? Pretty long actually, this argument in favor of the story's validity is absolute nonsense. Quote: Originally Posted by NYC_COSMOS You are actually very right!! Sitchin makes this claim in his book and explains that the earlier translations of the tablets were infused with errors similar in content and syntax as in the example you provided. Anyway I'm not looking to argue with anyone, I was just trying to share something I had read. I didn't want it to turn into something unneccessary and ugly. If you're not looking to "argue" don't post nonsense on a public forum. I hardly think being confronted with evidence qualifies as unnecessary and ugly. If you do, this might not be the place for you. More importantly though it'll make it difficult for you to defend your posts if you feel every contrary expression is an attack. Maybe you are right, I'm being too sensitive.
Hmm ... given that aliens are from a different plant that would explain why it is called a "green card". It's all starting to make sense now.