Analyze This: Bad Blood

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by Rocket, Sep 25, 2003.

  1. Rocket

    Rocket Member

    Aug 29, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hirdt's latest column provides some info on what matchups have generated the most fouls the past 3 years.

    Interestingly, the list is dominated by DC United and the Fire. As Gomer Pyle might say, "surprise, surprise, surprise." :)

    http://www.mlsnet.com/content/03/analyze0925.html
     
  2. Jeremy Goodwin

    Feb 16, 1999
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hm, yes, I see that one of those past three years matchups listed is Dallas vs. Chicago.

    Let's break that down on a game by game basis:

    Code:
                                    Dallas     Dallas     Dallas     Chicago     Chicago     Chicago
    Date           Location         Fouls      Red        Yellow     Fouls       Red         Yellow
    29-Sep-01      Chicago          30         1          5          18          0           4
    23-Sep-01      Dallas           32         0          2          13          0           3
    20-Sep-01      Chicago          21         1          6          23          0           4
    8-Sep-01       Chicago          26         0          3          23          0           3
    21-Jul-01      Chicago          26         1          2          11          0           1
    21-Apr-01      Dallas           17         0          4          18          0           2
    10-Aug-02      Dallas           22         0          1          16          0           1
    15-Jun-02      Naperville       13         0          1          18          0           3
    20-Sep-03      Southlake        28         0          5          20          0           3
    18-Jun-03      Naperville       11         0          3          10          0           2
    Total          All              226        3          32         170         0           26
    Average        10 games         22.6       0.3        3.2        17          0           2.6
    
    Surprise? Not the word I would use.
     
  3. Rocket

    Rocket Member

    Aug 29, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't you realize, Jeremy, that the Dallas fouls were undoubtably retaliatory fouls where the respondent (Dallas) gets called for the foul while the instigator (Chicago) gets away Scot free? ;)
     
  4. Jeremy Goodwin

    Feb 16, 1999
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Code:
    TEAM TOTALS
    TEAM                              GP    G   A  SHT  SOG PG PA  BK   FC   FS  OFF   CK    C
    Chicago Fire                      25   42  32  381  168  5  7   5  409  430   76  115   43
    Colorado Rapids                   25   31  30  321  142  4  5   4  405  325   77  112   43
    Columbus Crew                     25   32  35  322  146  2  2   8  381  366   81  121   48
    Dallas Burn                       25   28  26  278  114  4  5  10  445  323   83  105   48
    D.C. United                       25   33  39  271  124  5  5   7  435  425   58  141   52
    Kansas City Wizards               25   38  31  350  153  5  6   8  351  364   66  103   48
    Los Angeles Galaxy                25   29  24  320  150  6  7   6  406  411   73  149   43
    MetroStars                        25   34  28  347  170  3  4  12  410  433   55  119   44
    New England Revolution            25   40  40  363  165  1  2   7  386  410   52  127   42
    San Jose Earthquakes              25   39  48  316  143  2  2  10  399  334   64  144   42
    
    TEAM RANKS
    TEAM                              G   A  SHT SOG BLK FC  FS  OFF CK   C
    Chicago Fire                      1   5   1   2   9   4   2   4   7   6
    Colorado Rapids                   8   7   6   8  10   6   9   3   8   6
    Columbus Crew                     7   4   5   6   4   9   6   2   5   2
    Dallas Burn                      10   9   9  10   2   1  10   1   9   2
    D.C. United                       6   3  10   9   6   2   3   8   3   1
    Kansas City Wizards               4   6   3   4   4  10   7   6  10   2
    Los Angeles Galaxy                9  10   7   5   8   5   4   5   1   6
    MetroStars                        5   8   4   1   1   3   1   9   6   5
    New England Revolution            2   2   2   3   6   8   5  10   4   9
    San Jose Earthquakes              3   1   8   7   2   7   8   7   2   9
    As you can see, the overall trend continues this year. Dallas leads the league in fouls committed (FC) and trails the league in fouls sufferred (FS), and is a leader in cards awarded (C). Meanwhile, Chicago is solidly in the middle of the pack in fouls committed, and is a league leader in fouls sufferred.

    Maybe this is the cause for your bad karma.
     
  5. Jeremy Goodwin

    Feb 16, 1999
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    More analysis, Chicago and DC:

    Code:
                             DC       DC       DC       Chicago   Chicago   Chicago
    Date        Location     Fouls    Red      Yellow   Fouls     Red       Yellow
    14-Apr-01   Chicago      22       1        4        21        0         2
    2-Jun-01    DC           24       0        5        18        1         2
    30-Mar-02   DC           22       0        3        16        0         3
    4-May-02    DC           12       0        3        10        0         1
    20-Jul-02   Naperville   24       0        4        16        0         2
    31-Jul-02   Naperville   19       0        2        17        0         2
    19-Apr-03   DC           19       0        2        20        0         1
    7-Jun-03    DC           31       0        3        24        0         2
    12-Jul-03   Naperville   17       1        1        17        1         1
    16-Aug-03   Naperville   19       0        2        15        0         0
    Total       All          209      2        29       174       2         16
    Average     10 Games     20.9     0.2      2.9      17.4      0.2       1.6
    As in the three year series against Dallas, Chicago was soundly out-fouled by DC United in the past three years.
     
  6. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Unlike vw, I don't object to a bit of gratuitous violence and chippy play when it comes to matches against the Chicago Fire.

    But your table doesn't account for the bookings that players have received for "delaying restart" and "dissent," which I'm not sure proves your point that the Dallas Burn is only interested in roughing up the Chicago Fire.
     
  7. Jeremy Goodwin

    Feb 16, 1999
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    More analysis, Chicago and New England:

    Code:
                             NE       NE       NE       Chicago   Chicago   Chicago
    Date        Location     Fouls    Red      Yellow   Fouls     Red       Yellow
    12-May-01   Foxboro      24       0        3        13        0         2
    23-Jun-01   Chicago      18       0        4        20        0         2
    27-Apr-02   Naperville   19       1        2        20        0         2
    19-May-02   Foxboro      9        0        0        16        0         0
    18-Aug-02   Foxboro      24       1        2        20        0         5
    24-Aug-02   Naperville   22       0        3        19        0         2
    26-Sep-02   Foxboro      14       0        2        8         0         4
    29-Sep-02   Naperville   21       1        5        20        0         3
    2-Oct-02    Foxboro      21       0        2        16        1         1
    13-Apr-03   Naperville   24       1        1        17        0         3
    17-May-03   Foxboro      20       0        1        15        0         4
    19-Jul-03   Naperville   19       0        4        18        0         1
    30-Aug-03   Foxboro      11       0        1        22        0         3
    Total       All          246      4        30       224       1         32
    Average     13 Games     18.9     0.3      2.3      17.2      0.1       2.5
    My my my...Once bitten twice shy. Apparently we're three for three. In the 13 games between Chicago and New England in MLS play in the last three years, including a highly contentious playoff series, New England outfouled Chicago.
     
  8. Jeremy Goodwin

    Feb 16, 1999
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually, my contention wasn't that Dallas was interested in roughing us up, merely that we weren't responsible for most of the fouls in the series listed. VW's contention was that the Fire, by virtue of appearing in this listing of foul-laden series, were somehow more violent than other teams.

    Frankly, in the past, that was in fact true. On a per game basis, Chicago is still the number three fouling team in the league, all-time.

    However, the three major reasons that was true (Bradley, Dema, Hristo) are no longer part of this team, and just because we're able to put it out doesn't tell you anything about the *#*#*#*# we've taken from several teams over the past few years, particularly Dallas and DC.

    I've got most of the cards for the last three years for the Chicago - Dallas series in a table that I'd be glad to provide to you to settle this, however, I don't know what excuses were given for the cards on April 21, 2001, so my data is incomplete.

    The cards awarded that day are listed as follows on the Fire site.

    DAL Pareja 17
    CHI Whitfield 32
    DAL Suarez 48
    CHI Wolyniec 49
    DAL Deering 51
    DAL Graziani 86

    If you have some source for this information, then we can quickly settle this portion of the dispute.
     
  9. Jeremy Goodwin

    Feb 16, 1999
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    By the way, the tally so far on cautions and ejections:

    Dallas:
    4 Unknown
    3 Delay of Game
    2 Dissent
    1 Bringing the Game into Disrepute
    1 Illegally Entering the Field of Play (Ejection)
    3 Persistent Infringement
    10 Reckless Foul
    5 Tackle From Behind (1 Ejection)
    1 Tactical Foul
    1 Throwing / Kick the Ball
    2 Tripping
    1 Ungentlemanly Conduct
    1 Violent Conduct (Ejection)

    Chicago:
    2 Unknown
    1 Agressive Attitude
    2 Delay of Game
    1 Bringing the Game into Disrepute
    9 Reckless Foul
    3 Tackle From Behind
    3 Tactical Foul
    2 Tripping
    2 Ungentlemantly Conduct
     

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