Analyst: Williams has yet to complete an attacking pass

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Matrim55, Nov 11, 2011.

  1. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would say 3 if you take the attacking third strictly and he completed 8 in the Ecuador game.
     
  2. Skevin

    Skevin Member+

    Aug 9, 2009
    Colorado
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Czechia
    Williams isn't a LB, he is a CDM.

    I hope Jurgen realized that when we played two strikers, two wingers, and two defending mids, we created chances. Too bad that was in the 80th. I think we should be playing 2 strikers, 2 wingers, a defending mid, and an attacking mid. I don't understand why Jurgen continues to play 3 defending mids.
     
  3. TheNearPost

    TheNearPost Member+

    May 21, 2010
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I really am just not a fan of Edu in the #8 role at all. The fact that we don't have Donovan, as well as the fact that he's being replaced by Williams, has highlighted that we've lacked serious creativity, drive, and inspiration from that central midfield zone.

    It boggles my mind that Sacha Kljestan wasn't called in. He's a tireless, box-to-box runner that brings the bite on defense but is also creative enough to have an impact on the attack. He's in great form these days, and the guy is practically across the street from France. Jermaine Jones as well is someone that can play the box-to-box creator role. How guys like these and Benny Feilhaber and Mikkel Diskerud lose out to Maurice Edu is beyond me.

    The point is that we're not creating any chances. This article about Danny Williams' ineffective passing actually makes me happy because I know we've got at least one option better than him in Landon Donovan, and there really isn't much Jurgen can do about Landon's absence from this squad. However, Jurgen is killing us by playing someone in the #8 role who can't contribute going forward. We can't count on Donovan and Dempsey forever.
     
  4. TheNearPost

    TheNearPost Member+

    May 21, 2010
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    We actually were playing an attacking midfielder and a defensive midfielder. Dempsey was right in front of Jones, and we were getting places.

    However, Dempsey isn't really suited for defending that deep in the midfield. Pushing him wide like Bob Bradley did might make a bit more sense, but you have to wonder how long Landon and Clint could handle that kind of workload. They'd both be an improvement over Danny Williams there though, that's for sure.

    I think the 4-4-1-1/4-2-3-1 shape makes sense right now, but I don't like the central midfield pairing we've got behind Dempsey. Scratch that, I'm just not a fan of Edu being our more advanced central midfielder. He's not offensively gifted, and I honestly think some of the rockets he had in the SPL had people thinking otherwise.
     
  5. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

    Angkor Siem Reap FC
    United States
    Aug 12, 2008
    at the pitch
    Club:
    Siem Reap Angkor FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Big Soccer regularly gets their hopes up for players like Williams.

    Certainly, I wish him and our team the very best.

    The key is to lower expectations and view these people realistically.

    Certainly, he is being played away from a position which might be considered his best. I have been unimpressed.

    A theory or possibility presented a couple of games ago, perhaps against Belguim was that he was serving as someone who created space for Cherundolo on the right side and providing a defensive presence, as a third central midfielder (or a similar role).

    Regardless, the impression I am left with after watching him play for several matches (and yes, I know he was on the field against Bayern Munich) is that he currently lacks some of the necessities to be anything more than a role player at this point in his career. Again, I hope that I am wrong.

    It is a mystery to me why he is getting so much playing time. I would say the same thing for Edu. I agree with the posters who say he is being played out of position.

    My big question is "Why are we playing this formation when we do not have players who are performing well at the 8 and rw positions?". What exactly is going on?
     
  6. lmorin

    lmorin Member+

    Mar 29, 2000
    New Hampshire
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This!

    If Edu and Beckerman do not contribute the attack with meaningful numbers and quality of attacking passes, things will not get better despite improvement by Williams. In other words, I do not accept that Williams was the primary problem. It's bigger than that.

    Personally, I think Klinsmann is sacrificing an enormous contribution to the attack for the sake of supposed improvement in defense by relying on Edu and Beckerman rather than the one guy who has figured in a huge percentage of the US goals over the last several years--Mike Bradley.
     
  7. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Every coach has their blind spots, and right now I'd say JK's most glaring are his overrating of Edu and underrating of Bradley. (Even more so of course would be Williams as a winger, but... I'm still hoping that was a hair-brained experiment that Klinsmann now sees is a hair-brained experiment. But I really, really doubt he sees Edu as the #8 as such a hair-brained experiment. I think that's really how he rates the players.)
     
  8. Mr Martin

    Mr Martin Member+

    Jun 12, 2002
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed.

    The biggest mysteries of JK's term so far are why he keeps playing Edu as a #8 and Williams as a winger. Boggles the mind.

    At least he dropped Castillo, which suggested JK has the ability to learn and adapt. But these two repeated mistakes, plus the repeated callups for Rogers and Orozco, really make me concerned about how JK actually sees and analyzes the game.

    Einstein's definition of insanity...
     
  9. Missionary

    Missionary Member

    Jul 13, 2003
    Mission Viejo
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Except the best 25 minutes the USMNT has played to date was the 25 minutes Rogers played against Mexico. Watch your replay and tell me I am wrong.
     
  10. Missionary

    Missionary Member

    Jul 13, 2003
    Mission Viejo
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Except the best 25 minutes the USMNT has played to date was the 25 minutes Rogers played against Mexico. Watch your replay and tell me I am wrong. Highlights here:

    http://www.soccer-blogger.com/2011/...ights-goals-2011-friendly-video-philadelphia/
     
  11. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    I would take Rogers over Williams at RM against Slovenia. :eek:
     
  12. Major Major

    Major Major Member

    Jul 20, 2011
    Colorado
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Michael Bradley is not a #8, and never will be. At least, he has not performed well in that role for the US when he was paired with Jones.
     
  13. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

    Angkor Siem Reap FC
    United States
    Aug 12, 2008
    at the pitch
    Club:
    Siem Reap Angkor FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Me too . .
     
  14. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    In order to complete a forward pass in the final third, we would have to have off-the-ball movement. Currently, we have none.
     
  15. Susaeta

    Susaeta BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 3, 2009
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fair question. Let me answer briefly as I have to run.

    What I have liked:
    1. Focus on defense in terms of organization and team spacing.

    2. Implementation of a dedicated 6 vs. the double 8.

    3. Putting more quickness on the field. That includes Orozco and Castillo. It does not bother me he is trying options. And Castillo is very much still in the picture. He is injured or he would be in camp.

    4. Seeing past the resumes to put in Beckerman, where I think he has been good.

    What I have not liked:
    1. Williams on the right. I understand they wanted defensive support for Ribery. It ended up being a defensive liability because Williams is so inept in the attack.

    2. Goodson. No excuse in my mind for him getting call ups. Cameron should have already been called in.

    3. Exclusion of Kljestan. I do not understand it. Anderlecht is a good team. Kljestan is a big part of what they are doing. Something is fishy there, and I suspect there is a personality issue involved.

    What I am waiting to make up my mind on:
    1. The slow integration of attacking players into the team. Again, I understand why the staff is taking it slowly. They want to have a solid system, based on sound defense, to bleed players into. They will not take a shot gun approach to player integration. That makes sense to me. But the US is at a point where a 4th real attacker can be added. Starting Johnson would alleviate my concerns somewhat.

    2. Messing with Donovan's role. That is the biggest long-term concern to me. This team still depends on an effective Donovan.

    Overall, no final judgments from me. I like the building from the base approach, but I want to see some steps taken in other areas of the system.
     
  16. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    And of course, there is a catch. My rating of Klinsi's current group of RMs:

    1. Clint Dempsey
    2. Fabian Johnson
    3. DaMarcus Beasley
    4. Tim Chandler
    5. Brek Shea
    6. Robbie Rogers
    7. Daniel Williams

    Obviously, Rogers can move up due to some of these players starting in other positions. :D
     
  17. mannycoon

    mannycoon Member

    May 13, 2009
    Most of Bradley's club success has been in an 8 type role (his best form for a Gladbach was probably at 8 with Galasek as a 6, he struggled more in a dual 8 set up with Marx, he usually plays box to box with Chievo with 6 and another box to box player, and played an advanced role at Heerenveen). Being an 8 requires a good all around game, not just passing or running or defense or attacking, but a little of everything, which is something Bradley is good at compared to someone like Torres or Edu who are good at particular skills but have weaker all around games.

    Bradley has never actually played 8 with Jones at 6. Bob used his pulley system where they both basically 8s and Klinsmann has only used them together with Beckerman on the field. I don't know why Klinsmann hasn't tried the obvious thing and try to them together at 6 and 8, given they are the most of accomplished and well rounded players of our CMs, you'd think he'd try them together first, to see how they do and experiment after with other players afterwards.
     
  18. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    JK's worse than BB. At least BB only tried Edu at attacking mid twice. Isn't it amazing what those guys try. Bielsa anyone?
     
  19. notinthe18

    notinthe18 Member

    Mar 22, 2006
    Klinsmann is trying to fit square pegs into round holes. Playing with 4 defensive mids and expecting a coherent attack is asking too much from players playing out of position.
     
  20. ElRoss425

    ElRoss425 Member

    Apr 24, 2002
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OK, Klinnsman should realize from here on out that if he's going to play this formation he has to have a true linking/#8 midfielder on the field. Feihaber, Torres, Holden, Zusi(haven't watched KC enough to truly weigh in on that), Kljestan, etc, one of those needs to be on the field.

    Teams that can take away our wing play are going to play well against us if we don't play a good #8 b/c that leaves us looking like we did today with Altidore and Dempsey being the only offensive threats.
     
  21. Real Corona

    Real Corona Member+

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I don't think it's fair to write Williams off. Can anyone here imagine if Maurice Edu or Kyle Beckerman tried to play right wing for this team?

    Of course he looks terrible. Try putting Landon Donovan at fullback or Chandler at striker, why not? Williams skill set is not to be a right winger. I've seen him play in the center in the Bundesliga and he is a good player. Second coming of Bastian Schweinsteiger, probably not, but he is a good player for this team. He is not, in any way, a right winger. I just don't get the idea behind it at all.

    I've seen the chalkboard, but the team doesn't play like the chalkboard says. If the goal was to play an off balanced 4-3-3 with three solid defensive midfielders okay, but Williams is being tasked with being an attacking force down the right side and it's not his game.

    I'll forgive Klinsmann this one because France is a top team and having a more defensive shape is understandable. But if we put Williams out right again over Fabian Johnson against SLovenia, I will lose it.
     
  22. Real Corona

    Real Corona Member+

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've seen nothing recently that indicates to me that Beasley is ahead of Shea.
     
  23. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is some weird buzz going around among US soccer fans that Beasley is amazing right now... like he's playing brilliantly down in Mexico or something.
     
  24. Real Corona

    Real Corona Member+

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well from what I've heard he has done quite well in Mexico, but from what I've seen of him with the US team he's been very average.
     
  25. Adiaga Two

    Adiaga Two Member+

    Oct 4, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well as a pacy, direct winger, he's a somewhat unique player within Mexican soccer that I'm sure a lot of teams aren't very good at dealing with.

    At the international level he's not going to be that much of a force anymore. Good depth for a couple more years, nothing more.
     

Share This Page