Analysis: USA-ALG - De Bleeckere (BEL)

Discussion in 'World Cup 2010: Refereeing' started by MassachusettsRef, Jun 21, 2010.

  1. MountainHawk

    MountainHawk New Member

    Sep 7, 2005
    Salem, MA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Regarding the send off ... Yahia wasn't the one with the most dissent, but he didn make a gesture with his hand that seemed to come within 3 inches of the refs face, and that appears to be when he made his decision. Maybe the yellow is for the physical dissent, not the verbal one?
     
  2. The_Dude

    The_Dude Member+

    Aug 21, 2004
    No, it wasn't the captain. The captain was the third guy - after Yebda (19) and Halliche (5). DeBleeckere had already turned around by the time the captain came over and really never saw Yahia until he turned around again. I've now watched it about 10 times and I think it was just mistaken identity - though I can't be sure.

    Yebda should have gotten a straight red for the way he was screaming (and spitting because of it) in his ear.
     
  3. MPJ334

    MPJ334 New Member

    Dec 19, 2001
    Chelsea,New York, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm watching on delay, so I'm not to this point yet, but a lesson I learned the hard way is to not turn one's back on a player one has just sent off but who hasn't yet left the FOP. But that's neither here nor there.

    I only got to watch the end of the first-half live (work stuff), and in the half-time replay the play that I think Alberto is referencing had me shouting "4 Ds! Come on! Send him off!" I'm looking forward to seeing it at a live pace, not in replay.
     
  4. Kerry

    Kerry Member

    Apr 10, 2006
    Dearborn Heights Mi
    On the send off. I saw spittle fly from the captains mouth when he came charging up. That might have been the trigger.

    Stoppage time. The ref knew the USA had been screwed in the previous match. He saw that the Algerians had not played to win. Emotions were getting frayed. Another minute and all hell could break loose. There was cold Amstel in the refs locker room. Game over.;)
     
  5. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought he was very good today. Very consistent, gave 3 yellows for exactly the same foul.

    But the AR....... :(
     
  6. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I just re-watched parts of the game. I'm sure he gave the yellow (and thus the red) to the wrong player. I can't see anything the Algerian player did, while his two teammates that he was trying to break up were all over the ref. I think he turned around and then turned back and assumed the player who was following him was one of the two players in his face and not the team captain.

    I'm also not sure what led him to give Altidore and Beasley yellow cards, but i assume he saw something.
     
  7. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He thought DMB had handball in attempt to score. Jozy was called for exactly the type of from behind, step on the foot foul, he gave two yellows to Algeria for.....
     
  8. snkscore

    snkscore Member+

    Jun 24, 2007
    La Grange, IL
    The captain who got sent off, looks a LOT like the 2nd player that got in the refs face and almost hit him swinging his arm. The look alike captain stepped in as the ref turned around and he got the red.

    Too bad, but at least it didn't really impact the game.
     
  9. nsa

    nsa Member+

    New England Revolution; Boston Breakers
    United States
    Feb 22, 1999
    Notboston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  10. PVancouver

    PVancouver Member

    Apr 1, 1999
    Rafik HALLICHE, Height: 187 cm
    [​IMG]

    Anther YAHIA, Height: 185 cm
    [​IMG]

    Yahia was clean-shaven for this match.
     
  11. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But the fact remains that in consecutive matches we've had players cautioned for false handling fouls. Pretty obvious in both cases too there was no handling. Does FIFA think the US team handles? Just found that strange.
     
  12. MPJ334

    MPJ334 New Member

    Dec 19, 2001
    Chelsea,New York, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Upon watching the 34th minute again last night, in real-time (if delayed), the takedown so close to the goal looked clean, and Donovan wasn't up in arms about it. He got up and got in place for the set play to follow. Good to see that as it happened, not on a weird angle in slow motion.
     
  13. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    Findley, absolutely bad call. this one, ummm, not sure. Didn't get a great replay, but it looked at best, to come off the side of his chest/shoulder, very close to the arm. With the ball curving in, it's possible.
     
  14. o5iiawah

    o5iiawah Member

    Oct 31, 2008
    Wow, I sure crapped the bed when I called DeBleeckere's performance before the match. Average at best, I thought.

    On the advantage call in the first half, a buddy who I was was watching the game with instantly said "what?! no advantage?" and I said, well, sometimes if there's a booking the referee calls the match to a halt to make sure the message is delivered. Also, Algeria had recently been booked for a few play-halting cynical fouls so i was expecting a card here for breaking up a counter. I was wrong and the player got a warning.

    I would still like to see an AR-view on the offside call. It looks as though Dempsey's foot may be forward. With the slanted camera its hard to see.

    I thought the handling booking on DMB was harsh. Even if you suspect he handled, I dont think its a booking as the arms were not out or unnatural. Deliberate handling and handling with intent to score are two different animals.

    Dempsey should not have been let back on the field. You could see blood running down his mouth as he lined up to take a free kick.

    It seems altidore was stepped on or tripped from behind at least 4 times. For me, after 2 or 3 different players earn bookings fouling the same player, the next one is straight red. This is gamesmanship where players collude to rack up cards taking turns fouling the star player of another team.

    My $.02
     
  15. PVancouver

    PVancouver Member

    Apr 1, 1999
    I think the "running down" part is exaggerated, but certainly I was surprised that De Bleeckere allowed Dempsey to stay on the field at that point and I am sure he will be questioned about it.
     
  16. PVancouver

    PVancouver Member

    Apr 1, 1999
    The questioned advantage call occurred at 25:50.

    I think because the ball went up the touchline De Bleeckere thought that the US could not have had that great of an advantage. He may also have stopped play for a "serious" injury to Dempsey.

    Whether or not a card was going to be issued, if there was a significant advantage play should have been allowed to continue, unless the injury to Dempsey was in fact deemed serious.
     
  17. o5iiawah

    o5iiawah Member

    Oct 31, 2008
    More like a "I am sorry you were mugged with a closed fist and I didn't see it. Im going to let you take this free kick and continue playing to make up for it"
     
  18. PVancouver

    PVancouver Member

    Apr 1, 1999
  19. Emmet Kipengwe

    Aug 15, 2004
    Maryland
    While this sounds good, what do you give the red card for?

    I mean which of the 7?
     
  20. o5iiawah

    o5iiawah Member

    Oct 31, 2008
    In this instance, Law18 and Law5 are used more than Law12. Player safety is a huge issue for someone who is being repeatedly fouled. As well, you have the issue of the match being brought into disrepute.

    I may write it up as SFP in my book but in my match report, I'd explain: Player 14 was roughly and consistently by #4, then #7 then #8. #7 and #8 were cautioned for PI and I explained to the captain that further cynical fouls against player 14 would be met with expulsion. When player #9 stepped on player 14's ankle during a breakaway, This merits a red card offense.

    My instructor in my 7 upgrade class explained during an assessment that he had a game with 8 cautions against one team for consistently fouling a player. At the end of the match -broad chested that he had recognized every foul and cautioned them appropriately, his assessor told him he had failed to control the match and that the start player was treated as a punching bag.
     
  21. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Generaly, I though DeBleeckere did well. He was in charge and called what needed to be called. I think the ARs let him down three times. I think the AR's position caused him to take a way a valid goal in the first half and there were two very close decision against Algeria that looked on after the replay.

    The missed punch on Dempsey was a tough one. I think he just missed it.

    I do think the referee did the US a solid at the end of the match. I'm not sure what he called in the US penalty area that led to the Algerian getting a second caution. I didn't see a foul so it looked a soft call. The dissent was bad, but it didn't look like the guy sent off was most vigorously complaining. It was almost as if DeBleeckere restored some balance. I'm not saying that he was making up for our friend from Mali, but it sure looked that way to me.

    I also think the US was favored a bit in the second, but a lot of that comes from it controlling play and having more of the ball.
     
  22. vetshak

    vetshak Member+

    May 26, 2009
    Minnesota
    If you watch the corner, #19 Algeria grabs a USA defender and holds him to prevent him from getting to the cross. De Bleeckere was looking right at it and called it as soon as the ball was kicked. It was an identical tactic to what Argentina used to score against Nigeria. And unlike the phantom foul in the US-Slovenia game, there weren't 8 other worse fouls occurring elsewhere at the time.
     
  23. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well there you have it. Thanks!
     
  24. DiablesRouges

    DiablesRouges Member

    Jun 13, 2010
    Campbell, California
    Club:
    RSC Anderlecht
    Rewatched the game last night:

    -De Bleeckere should not have stopped the advantage to warn the Algerian player for his tackle on Dempsey.

    -I will maintain that the challenge on Altidore while he attempting to get free should have merited a Red card. While it wasn't a DOGSO situation the challenge itself was done with interest in playing the ball, the defender did not even give the impression he was making a play on the ball. Add in that it was a challenge from behind.

    - I will also maintain that Halliche sould have been booked for simulation when Altidore was booked for a clumsy challenge. I don't have an issue with Altidore's booking as his challenge was inappropriate but Halliche did not go down until after he had taken 3-4 more steps. It was an extremely delayed reaction to a scrape of a touch. I would have recommended double yellow in this situation.

    -De Bleeckere missed the fist to dempsey which I'm most if not all would agree was a straight red.
     
  25. RegularGuy

    RegularGuy Member

    Jun 17, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    First the caveat -- I'm just a fanboy, not an official.

    What's weird to me about this thread is the very little attention paid to DeBleeckere's rather obvious early termination of the game. For all the discussion of judgment calls, which can endlessly be debated and usually defended, it seems that deliberate decisions really deserve the most discussion.

    I can see the value in discussing mechanics and whether De Bleeckere made an error by turning his back before showing a card. That's a helpful and good discussion I would think of assistance to refs. But the issue of "make up" calls and deliberate referree decisions that seems contrary to the laws in the interest of justice are most interesting to me as a fan. They seem like a different animal.

    I am a U.S. fan, and I wanted the whistle to come as soon as possible. It also is not really debatable that there was justice in the final whistle. Just before it happened, Altidore had taken yet another brutal foul. It actually seemed cautionable to me, and maybe the ref simply decided that rather than going through the motions of carding the player, he would simply put the game to end before a team with no hope of advancing caused injury to a team likely to advance. If the only teams affected by that decision were the two on the pitch, it's hard to quibble. But Slovenia was affected too. There is, of course, massive justice to the early whistle. I doubt this crew was unaware of the call in the prior game, and perhaps they even had a sense by then that the offside call earlier in the game was closer than the AR saw it. Are these reasons to end the game early, though? Just wondering what people think.
     

Share This Page