Analysis: POR-BRA - Archundia (MEX)

Discussion in 'World Cup 2010: Refereeing' started by MassachusettsRef, Jun 24, 2010.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All pre-match discussion of the appointment, play-by-play descriptions and post-match analysis of the officiating performance for this match belong in this thread.

    Analysis threads in this forum are strictly moderated. Supporters of participating teams are welcome and encouraged to participate. But all posters should take non-analytical posts to the group or rivalries forums. Thank you.

    Match #45, Portugal - Brazil, Group G
    Referee: Archundia (MEX)
    Assistant 1: Vergara (CAN)
    Assistant 2: Torrentara (MEX)
    Fourth Official: O'Leary (NZL)
     
  2. DudsBro

    DudsBro Member

    Jan 12, 2010
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Re: Analysis: Archundia (MEX)

    Playing to not be on Spain's side of the draw. Should be good.
     
  3. CanadaFTW

    CanadaFTW Member

    Jun 21, 2007
    Can anyone explain how Archundia got a Canadian AR (I know they have been together for a while)? Seems a bit odd and limiting for their assignments in CONCACAF having members from 2 of the top 8 teams.
     
  4. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    they have been together as a team for years. Not sure how it came about in the first place.

    Now, explain how he cautions Fabiano for the late challenge, but then restarts with a dropped ball. Even if he was playing advantage no advantage happened when everyone just stopped and he had to halt play. Why wouldn't you restart with a DFK there?
     
  5. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Greater Pittsburgh
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That was an odd series of events.


    Archundia signals for advantage after a reckless challenge by Luis Fabiano, but Portugal doesn't seem interested in it.

    He ends up stopping play and shows the yellow.

    He restarts play with a dropped ball.

    WTF?

    I guess he decided he had stopped play for the possible injury to the Portuguese player?
     
  6. CanadaFTW

    CanadaFTW Member

    Jun 21, 2007
    Yeah, my guess is he felt he had waited too long to call the foul after having played advantage.

    EDIT: Wow on that handling at midfield, seemed like a possible red to me
     
  7. CravenCrew

    CravenCrew New Member

    Mar 23, 2010
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good card for simulation. That was shameless.

    Not sure about the handling at midfield though. Red?
     
  8. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sure. But at that point he's stopping play to deal with the misconduct, right? I suppose the Laws are actually vague, here. Law V says you "punish the more serious offence" if two have been committed at once, but stopping for an injury isn't an offence. So is the misconduct still "more serious" than the injury (IFK over dropped ball)? Or does it all just come down to which one he actually decided to stop for in his own mind?

    I thought it was appropriate. Distance and direction and number of players... none of them were obvious in and of themselves. Too many questionable factors to pull a red there.

    And it was followed with a great caution for dissent and now a great caution for diving. This is the Archundia I've been waiting to see.
     
  9. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Bravo Archundia for the yellow on Portugal for simulation! These guys always get away with it.
     
  10. CanadaFTW

    CanadaFTW Member

    Jun 21, 2007
    And then I think a good yellow for simulation in the box. Certainly an eventful first half for the referee, but I think he has been right on these key decisions.
     
  11. hurcoll

    hurcoll New Member

    Jun 15, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Well deserved yellow to Tiago for diving looking for a PK
     
  12. CanadaFTW

    CanadaFTW Member

    Jun 21, 2007
    He wasn't stopping for misconduct though (that was the original foul with advantage), but instead stopped for the "injury" to Portugal, at which point he handed out the caution for the foul that he played advantage on. Seemed odd but I think it makes sense.
     
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think that's a fair explanation in the Laws. And probably the "correct" one, if there is one, given the language (I believe) says something about "solely" to deal with the misconduct. Looked odd, but it seems Archundia got it right in 5 seconds in something that has taken me a few minutes to figure out.
     
  14. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    Love the diving caution. I think the one on Portugal #5 was for putting his hand on Archundia's back.

    I don't see how you could give a red on the handling at midfield. Far from goal, the Portuguese player didn't even have possession of the ball. It's likely he was going to run onto it and take control, but not necessarily certain. 50+ yards from goal as well... Caution seemed right to me.

    The cautions are piling up now
     
  15. CravenCrew

    CravenCrew New Member

    Mar 23, 2010
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This game is going to get ugggggly in the second half. That was a nasty foul
     
  16. Caesar

    Caesar Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 3, 2004
    Oztraya
    I've never liked Archundia as a referee, but since the CWC he's really started to grow on me. The guy seems to have an uncanny feel for the game and the players.
     
  17. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I tell you one thing, though... these players seem to be working under the assumption that they can't get sent off in this game because they are stars and likely both going through. I'm sure Archundia will try to keep 22 on the field, but I highly doubt he's wedded to that principle. Could be some interesting flashpoints left in this one. He's set the bar for dissent, tactical fouls and simulation, so he has to follow it. What if someone on a caution tries to cheat going forward?
     
  18. CravenCrew

    CravenCrew New Member

    Mar 23, 2010
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As you say this, out comes yellow #6
     
  19. deegen

    deegen Member

    Nov 7, 2006
    I see no way at all that this game is going to end up with 22 players.
     
  20. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    I think he has proven in the past that he has no problem doing what he needs to do.
     
  21. CravenCrew

    CravenCrew New Member

    Mar 23, 2010
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #7

    Is this going to be Portugal Netherlands all over again?
     
  22. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think he got that one wrong.
     
  23. celeste4life

    celeste4life Member

    Dec 16, 2007
    United States
    Club:
    CA Peñarol
    Nat'l Team:
    Uruguay
    Ref lost control of the match a LONG TIME ago. He is giving yellows to Brazil only when he has no other choice but to give it, but is giving yellows to Portugal for anything. What he should do to regain control is give a red card. The Brazilian player that got subbed out should've received it. 2 very hard fould in a minute. And Dunga knew it. That's why he subbed him out. The call on the hand ball was correct. A red is too harsh at that distance. And the yellow for diving was incorrect, as there was some contact. I don't know if it was a penalty or not, but there was a small push
     
  24. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Greater Pittsburgh
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That last yellow was the iffiest of the seven, but really...they're not playing soccer out there so far.
     
  25. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member+

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Geez, are the players aware of the yellow card accumulation rule? :confused:

    Not sure how many of them already had yellows before the game, but the 7 yellow cards has not been a deterrent to either team so far.

    According to the LOTG, Archundia's caution for the hand ball was a correct, but when a player has an opportunity for a 1 vs 1 and a guy sticks his arm up in the "salute" position to purposely knock down the ball with his hand, I'd like to see a red on that.
     

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