Analizing the post Boca/Dolo Defense and Lineup

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by The Foo Fighter, May 31, 2012.

  1. The Foo Fighter

    The Foo Fighter Member+

    Mar 15, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Assuming that JK is slowly starting to bleed some new life into our defense this is what I would assume we will begin seeing within the next year to two years. This is also assuming Chandler decides to not come back to the national team. We will look at a scenario with and without him.

    Scenario 1- As of now the new back line with youth as the paradigm

    Johnson-Ream-Cameron-Lichaj

    -Obviously the LB position is now Johnson's for years to come. Now we move onto CB and lets look at the options.
    -For me, the top two candidates would be Ream and Cameron. Both have exceptional ball skills, and Ream showed in the Prem last season that he does have what it takes. With experience form the Championship next year, and maturation he will be a formidable center back with skill on the ball and defensive prowess. Cameron is a very similar CB to Ream, however much much better in the air. Cameron also has exceptional skills on the ball and is very composed. With a move to a tougher league and more time with the national team he could quickly step into the fold. Not to mention both of these centerbacks are extremely quick allowing us to play a high pressuring line
    -As far as RB our only viable option right now is Lichaj, who although is not the first choice is a very solid Prem league outside back and quick. He has also proven to be good enough for the international level, even if that was during the Gold Cup

    Scenario 2-The backline with Chandler

    Johnson-Ream-Cameron-Chandler

    -Don't really need to say much about that backline

    Scenario 3-Bleeding out the old central defense

    Johnson-Boca-Cameron/Ream-Lichaj

    -By doing this we could slowly bleed them both in
    -The reason I did not include Dolo is because we know he is a solid RB for the time being, but maybe it is time he started supporting of the bench letting a good youthful RB in Lichaj step up


    -Scenario 1 backline would allow us to play a high line, be extremely confident on the ball, strong in the air, and fast. All qualities we have been lacking



    Projected lineup assuming we begin to bleed youth

    Dempsey-Altidore-Donovan
    Jones(Mix?)-------Bradley
    -------------Edu--------------
    Johnson-Ream-Cameron-Lichaj
     
  2. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    Unfortunately, this is the type of experimentation that should have been going on last fall. Instead, Cherundolo has started 9 out of 10 and Bocanegra has started 10 out of 10.

    At least we know that against Canada, some other options should finally be examined. Although the flaw is that with Bocanegra, Goodson and Onyewu, there's only 1 new center back with which to experiment. Of course, Parkhurst should get a chance at RB for Canada.
     
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  3. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    I have little doubt that Ream and Cameron would allow us to become a much more efficient team in terms of playing the ball out of the back. It would potentially have some effects on the midfield alignment. For example, it potentially could compensate for having a less skillful midfielder such as Edu. With Ream and Cameron you don't need as much passing and possession out of your 6, you can bypass him.

    I suspect Ream and Cameron will need as much defensive screening and protection as Boca, Goodson and Gooch. They just aren't that good defensively. So we still need a strong commitment to having our 6 and against strong teams our 8 play compactly and conservatively. That doesn't change. What does change is that we have better playmaking, potentially much better, from the centerbacks.
     
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  4. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    It really has been very unfortunate and short-sighted on the part of both BB and JK to ride those two so much. I don't mind using them now with the qualifiers coming up. But we've thrown away a lot of opportunities to test the younger guys.
     
  5. drgonzo

    drgonzo Member+

    Jun 1, 2011
    Club:
    San Diego Flash
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think a Johnson, Ream, Gonzo, Lichaj backline is going to eventually be the one we'll see in 2014.
     
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  6. The Foo Fighter

    The Foo Fighter Member+

    Mar 15, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes we have, but at the same time before the Hex we have some time to experiment. We need a new backline. As long as we can achieve qualification, but also get the young guys experience we will be fine in 2014. The defense is our only glaring hole.
     
  7. schrutebuck

    schrutebuck Member+

    Jul 26, 2007
    I don't like the lack of defensive experimentation, because I like the way Bob Bradley handled the semifinal stage in 2008 and hope Klinsmann does it similarly. Settle on a starting XI with a couple other capable players in reserve and grind out the necessary results, keeping the unforced changes to a minimum.

    So if Johnson, Cameron, Bocanegra and Cherundolo are Klinsmann's backline, for example, I hope they maintain their form and health so they start every match this stage.
     
  8. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    I don't really think you can say that about BB.

    Cherundolo and Bocanegra each only started one out of eight friendlies under BB this cycle.

    The bigger problem was that he started Spector in four of the friendlies. (Lichaj and Chandler each played one and a half friendlies, and Franklin got one game.)

    At CB, Ream and Onyewu got four starts, Goodson got two and a half games, Gonzalez and Demerit got one and a half games, Edu got a game, and Parkhurst and Wynne each got a half.

    When the games mattered though, Cherundolo and Bocanegra did start every Gold Cup match (with Lichaj replacing Cherundolo early on the right against Mexico).
     
  9. drgonzo

    drgonzo Member+

    Jun 1, 2011
    Club:
    San Diego Flash
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With the amount of mins Boca and Cherundelo are getting, you would think we don't have any younger options available. If JK thinks that having a back line where three guys are in their mid thirties is going to cut it in the World Cup he's fooling himself. He needs to get mins for Cameron, John, Ream and Gonzo (once he's back) as well as Lichaj and Morales at right back. I also wouldn't mind seeing Morrow given a shot at left back and Beitashour at right back
     
  10. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    Have we really though? Since taking over he's started Fiscal, Ream, Cam, & Goodson. He's been looking for replacements, for guys that can beat out Boc and/or Gooch. Looking isn't finding.
     
  11. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    I don't think you can completely recreate your backline. The back line has to have great leadership, communication, experience, and be in sync with one another. JK spent a great deal of time to solve the bigget hole when he came in- LB.

    IT looks solid now.

    He's been trying to find a partner for Boc (who is the more reliable, expereined, and leader of the him and Goodch). He's tried Fiscal, Ream, Goodson, and now Gooch with Boc. I think once he can lock that one down, he can move on. By the time the WC gets here, hopefully we have a newer and younger line. But its not built in a day.
     
  12. UxSxAxfooty

    UxSxAxfooty Member+

    Jan 23, 2003
    Rochester, NY
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There are two facts Klinnsman must recognize and deal with in the next 2 years:

    1. We absolutely need Bocanegra and Onyewu to win right now in CONCACAF.

    2. We cannot win at the World Cup with either Bocanegra or Onyewu.
     
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  13. ImaPuppy

    ImaPuppy Member+

    Aug 10, 2009
    Using too many parentheses
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    I'm actually ok with Boca as long as he has a speedy counterpart ala Cameron or whoever else.

    One player I'm really looking forward to in the next couple years is a '93, John Anthony Brooks (assuming he can get it together). He has played for Hertha's first team recently, though more recently has played for their U23 and even U19 squads along with Kiesewetter.

    Still, from reports I've read he has the tools, but is shaky right now. Only 19 though, definitely one for the future. Next cycle perhaps.
     
  14. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001

    I have Boca starting in friendlies against Brazil and Argentina (left back) in friendlies under BB in this cycle. And I would ding Bob some for giving DeMerit a start against Paraguay. But yes, your main point is well taken. Bob had more of a plan to bring the younger defenders into the team. And I have to shake my head at the playing time JK wasted on Orozco Fiscal.
     
    Mr Martin repped this.
  15. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    Oh right, I was only looking at CB. I did overlook the Argentina friendly.
     
  16. QuakeAttack

    QuakeAttack Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    California - Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Slight modification. I don't believe that we need Gooch right now. Goodson can handle it.
     
  17. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    I think in the friendlies he should have been trying alternatives to Boca not partners. And JK only gets demerits (and I'm not talking about Jay here) for giving the PT he did to Orozco Fiscal.
     
  18. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think JK deserves some slack. Cameron was not playing CB a while back and Ream got chances and managed to flub it in 5 minutes. Ream was also in poor form. Gonzalez tore his acl. John probably isn't good enough.

    BB as well. This is one of the few things I think he really could not have done a thing about. He gave Ream and Gonzalez chances. Cameron wasn't even playing CB back then.
     
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  19. drgonzo

    drgonzo Member+

    Jun 1, 2011
    Club:
    San Diego Flash
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not suggesting putting them all in at once. What i am saying is giving the younger guys mins. Like you said we need the back line to communicate well with each other and the only way the young guys will be able to do that is if the play early and get enough mins together to develop an understanding of each other. At this point in his career i don't think that Boca is that much of a better player then the other CBs in our pool to make him untouchable.
     
  20. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    I don't think you try two new CB's at one time. You can't evaluate either that way. Its one step at a time. A coach has to have some level of consistency to evaluate a player in a team system.

    He did LB first and left the best and most stable CB to work on for later. Same with RB....

    He hasn't been able to find a suitable replacement for Gooch yet... what makes you think he could have found two CBs at once? They ahve a very solid ranking system by his description. I think once he finds a consistent younger CB like he did LB, then he can move on to either the other CB or RB.

    The back line has to have consistency, expereince, and leadership to function. If they change it all at once, then its nearly impossible to evaluate the individual and you get horrible results besides.

    I am hoping this has pushed Cam up... if he can lock that down... then mabe he can bring Ream in next to push Boc.
     
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  21. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    He has been giving them minutes. He has given minutes to Goodson, Ream, Cam, and Fiscal. He has left Boc for stability and leadership. Its a good plan. Get once CB settled before moving to another.

    Otherwise its just too much instability. Between Gooch and Boc... Iwould go with boc for stability. So thats a good eval. Then after you get that locked down... start pushing competition for Boc.
     
  22. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    I agree.
    Its a weak talent pool.
     
  23. holly nichole music

    May 3, 2012
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    No. We do not need both Boca and Gooch right now. Cameron and Goodson are more than adequate against minnows in early qualifying ( not that JK will make or ride that partnership exclusively or at all). But they are good enough . The question is will their competition ( Ream, John, Gonzo) step up to overtake them by the HEX. My position for the last 6 months has been that most minutes given to Gooch and Boca are lost minutes and harmful to the program longterm.
     
  24. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    Its about what is missing at CB. A quicker CB with good passing ability and good technical ability. Fiscal was as fine a place to start as any. Those are hard to find in US CBs.
     
  25. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    I think this is a wish and a hope, not a fact.
     
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