An attempt at serious discussion... what do we still need to get to WC2006?

We need to win games

 

Not realy.
WE just have to score more goals than the opposition.

 

We need to be top 2 or 3 of the table depends on what round it is.

 

Sorry hubba, it hasn't started in the most constructive ways as you wished, but to get back to the tone of your thread, I think you make some great points:

First, I agree with you regarding Suarez and Bocanegra. I thought Suarez looked solid against Wales, but as I have posted in other areas, he did not look like he was all that comfortable going forward, so he may be a better central defender linking with Pope. Bocanegra seems to have more creativity and attacking nature so he would make a better fit out wide, but I'd hate to lose his skills in the middle and he and Pope should make a great tandem on the road to Germany. Keep those two together and have Suarez off the bench.

I think the new format will ultimately help the US as we will (hopefully) learn how to play as the favorite, the team that is absolutely expected to win, and not by 1-nil. Our strategy will have to change from counter-attack to a more pressing attitude, or else we are going to have some very suprising draws.

I have said this elsewhere, to really make the transition to a soccer power, we will have to learn how to attack from through the midfield, not just counter, not just long balls from the back. That will take dominent central midfielders, a la France, Holland, Germany, Argentina and Italy, to name a few ( I know I'm going to hear about WC 2002, but in terms of overall results, you really can't argue with them). Swinging the attack from flank to flank, and not just straight up the field with a long ball to McBride.

That being said, I think by 2006 we'll have the talent developed to make this a reality. Convey, Donovan, Beasley, Martino, JOB will all be seasoned pros by then, and hopefully more on that list will have played in Europe by then.

We do need more depth of strikers who can finish a large percentage of the time. If you absolutely needed a goal and had one guy to chose to be 1 v 1 with a goalie, which Americans could be that one guy? Mathis absolutely. Twellman too, but after that, where do you go? Kirovski, nope, McBride, nope, Wolff, absolutely not. Ching? Eskandarian? Buddle? Not yet. We definately need some help there.

The keeper position really is stocked so that needs no mention.

Flank play is an issue. We have great speed in a few players, but after Lewis, we don't have too many great crossers of the ball. If we are going to build an attacking mentality we need more great flank players. Convey is developing and Martino may also grow into that role, but that issue needs to be addressed.

As you said, that's enough meat, so have at it....

By the way, good thread, hopefully will generate some thoughtful discussion.

Has anyone started planning their trip to Germany 2006???

 

I think we are in very good shape for the following reasons:

--We have a very successful, and now very experienced, coach, who knows the players and knows the drill. And this is a coach, as befits his success at every level, who never makes the same mistake twice.

--We have depth in many many positions.

--We no longer depend on just one or two key players. It used to be Ramos and Wynalda, then Reyna, then we thought Mathis. Now, no ONE player, by himself, is SO critical that we come apart if this player plays badly, or isn't available.

--We have young professionals at many many positions.

--I used to think the field general's role was the position with the least depth, but it may actually be one of the deepest positions we have. O'Brien will likely take over that role in '06, but Convey and Martino are behind. Donovan can do it in a pinch, as can Mathis. And that assumes Reyna is unavailable in '06.

--Our under 23 team is going to perform fabulously at the Olympics, and some of those players are going to get European offers, and will push for spots in the senior team by '06.

--Both players and coaches have confidence; not arrogance, but confidence that they can step on the field with anyone, compete, and win. But they also know it's hard, so they take nothing for granted.

--We have the number of our most important regional rival. If we beat them, and we're in almost certainly.

That being said, there are still some issues/problems that need to be solved. To wit:

--Outside back positions, especially left. We really don't have the strong fast skilled left footed left back who will be, say, 28 in '06 and who will have 8 years of professional 1st division experience. As a result, this position may be a series of hole-plugging experiements through qualifying and beyond. Things are better on the right side, but we could use depth there too.

--Right midfield. There's no clear front runner here. This was really supposed to be Ben Olsen's position, but now the situation is murky. Earnie Stewart is likely to be too old for '06.

--Some MLS situations for certain key players are sub optimal. Bobby Convey needs to play in the center of midfield; it doesn't seem to be happening at DC. I haven't seen him play for club yet, but observers say Mastroeni's game has declined. Colorado is a mess, and is probably not a great set of circumstances for Pablo right now.

On balance, though, things are looking very good. A great coach, lots of good players, a tough domestic league developing young talent, a strong youth national team progam, it all seems to add up to interesting possbilities.

 

I think the biggest thing, obviously, is to figure out what our player pool will be.

The first step is to determine which players are out of the picture for the most part. The players who could be cut from the pool for age include Stewart, Agoos, Sanneh, Armas, Llamosa, Moore, Regis, Vanney, Richie, Reyna, Meola, McBride, Cobi, Maisonneuve, Hejduk, and Berhalter. I'm not saying they're all done, just that they're old enough for it to be a legitimate question.

More players might be cut from the pool just due to declining play or just having used up their chances, like Kreis, Albright, Kirovski, West, Lagos, Rimando, Ralston, Razov, Petke, Klein, Cunningham, and others. Any of those might stay in the pool, but IMO it needs to be questioned if those guys are anything more than bandaids.

Next, we need to figure out what young players will get a chance. That's always an unknown, but for attackers there's Adu, Quaranta, Convey, Eskandarian, Ching, Martino, Victorine, Vagenas, Buddle, Casey, Twellman, and I'm sure plenty others I'm forgetting. There isn't room for all of them - which ones really have a shot and which aren't ready yet?

Flank players... Earnie's finally showing his age a bit and will be too old to depend on. Apart from Lewis and Beasley, most of our other flank options are people who have been or need to be moved from their true positions. If we're moving up a defender (Sanneh, Hejduk, Gutierrez, Cherundolo), let's start checking that out. If we're moving back a forward (any of those young guys listed above, Donovan, Mathis), let's see how they do. If we're moving a central player outside (Reyna, Donovan, O'Brien, Martino), we need to experiment.

On defense, we have tons of questions. Our defenders/alternates from the last WC and their ages in 2006:
Agoos 38, Berhalter 33, Hejduk 32, Llamosa 37, Pope 33, Regis 38, Sanneh 35, Vanney 32, Cherundolo 27. So one under 30, four over 35. Kinda scary... so who steps in? Bocanegra, Garcia, that dude in lower-division Germany who got called in but injured just before the WC, Califf, Dunseth, Barrett, Cullen, CJ Brown, Daniel Hernandez, McCarty, Mulrooney, Suarez, and many more I've missed are all options, but nobody's sure about any of them being the right guys. Arena's method of trying out new players tends to be to play a couple of new players along with lots of veterans so that we can see how a player fits in, but with the amount of turnover we're likely to have on defense, I wonder if it might be better to just start fresh and try to find a new group that fits each other, regardless of whether they fit with the former players like Agoos and Llamosa. Pope is the only certain holdover, so start with him and fill in around him.

All that said, Bruce is a great coach. He knows all that and will test everything he can.

 

I think the pool is filling out quite nicely. We all know where we stand currently at each position. We have good quality depth at forward, both central midfield positions, and left midfield.

With the defense, we have a very very very good tandem Pope and Boca in the center. We also have gotten good looks at Califf, Garcia. Berhalter is in the mix as well. So we have nearly 5 deep options at central back.

At RB we have tried Sannehesque experiments, but they did not work. As a result at RB is Dolo, Hejdude, Sanneh when healthy.

At LB we tried Convey, but I don't think it worked.
So at LB our two options are probably Vanney and Barret. Moving a player from some of our deeper positions is an option with JOB a possibility and Bocanegra a possibility.

So in sum, our pool is filled out quite nicely right now. We have quality depth at some positions (central midfield, left wing, forward and center back). Most of it is good young players who will all have the opportunity to be in the pool for 2006.

We have some thin positions (right wing, outside backs) were we have good players, but not players that I really really like. With some of the positions we have the option of spreading our depth at the other positions a bit to cover these small holes.

GK is fantastic.

If you were to list our core starting XI it would include a collection of players who by all accounts should still be in the starting XI for 2006 as they are young. Some of our depth is a little older and so some may fade out with age. Hopefully younger players in MLS will come along to fill in the roster. But this is really something no one can predict. We have looked at some of the younger players to date and some have worked, and some have not.

I have a ton of confidence in our coach who I think has done a great job year to date. Sure we all squabble about details, but for the most part I have faith that he will make the right decision. That being said, he is far from perfect (See Agoos) but he is much smarter than me (See Sanneh and Hejdude at J/K). So I am for the most part, sitting back and will enjoy the ride.

My prediction is that we will qualify with the most points in CONCACAF. We will tie in Azteca and win in Columbus v. Mexico. Injuries hurt us last time in qualifying. We have so much depth I don't see injuries controlling the outcome anymore.

Thats my .02

 

Personnally I think the biggest question in on defense. Tick, thats pretty scary the ages that you brought up. I think Heydude will still be around only because he is just so fast, that even at 32 he will still be able to contribute nicely. Also I think Dolo will continue to improve as he has done this year in the BL. I think that Pope and Boca will be the center pair, although I don't rule out Suarez. I wonder what the Bruce sees for the outsides backs? I'm sure he has something in mind though.

I am not too worried about the midfield, I think we will be fine for qualifying and 2006, I know we will qualify for Germany, I have faith. My only concern is JOB, I wish that injury bug would just stay away from him, I can really see him being huge down the road for the team. As far as Reyna goes, he will be there for 06.

Ttrevett, my wife and I have already agreed that our next vacation overseas will be to Germany in 06.

 

Defenders

I think Vanney did himself some good and has always been in BA's plans. So if I had to guess now I would say that Pope, Vanney, and Bocanegra are high on the list for the cup. However the immediate issue is qualification.

While I would be upset at having Agoos on another WC team, I think he may be very important to our qualifying games where his experience and expertise are still needed and will give us an alternative while bleeding the younger players. Clearly Califf is a prime candidate to get playing time during the qualifyers and probably so will many others due to injuries and availability. So I would try to pick at least 10 defenders to use. My guess at this time would be:
MSL defenders:
Pope, Bocanegra, Agoos, Hedjuk, Califf, Garcia, Suarez
MLS tactical defenders (mids pretending):
Mulrooney, Convey
EU Defenders:
Vanney, Sanneh, Cherundolo, Barrett

Seens like ideally BA would like outside defenders that give the option of being able to contribute offensively in three ways
1) Working the ball up the wing by interplaying with the mid
2) Sending acurrate long balls
3) Making runs up and sending in crosses
4) offer an option for headers on set pieces

I'm not sure how these players rank according to these abilities - but I think they represent the best we have with these skills.

I forgot Berhalter.

 

Okay, one of the wolves is here. Should Bruce go with the top "A" team through all the rounds to avoid any "surprise" and gel the team? Or should he use the early round matches against the weakest competition to further test the pool? Is that asking for trouble?

 

As I read the first post of this thread, these thoughts came to mind. Its really quite simple in my opinion. Our team has talent, depth in most positions, and youth. I see four keys that are all we need to have happen to qualify and show well in WC '06.

1. Depending on formation, find 2-3 defenders that are going to compliment Pope and Bocenagra. If we're in a 4-4-2 we need two outside backs, that make the position theirs for good. In a 3-5-2 you need one more solidified starter, and a couple replacements.

2. Have a clear frontrunner on the right midfield. Klein, Olsen, etc are all decent, but someone has to step up and make the starting role his and be that winger we need for every match.

3. Decide what to do in the d-mid. I dont think that Armas and Pablo can, or should, be on the field at the same time. It eliminates creativity for defensive ability. Having to fit O'Brien, and possibly Reyna, on the field should eliminate this decision.

4. Find those youthful diamonds in the rough that LD and Beasley turned into in WC '02. In Fall 1999 very few would have predicted that DMB, LD, Mathis or Wolff would be do what they did for the Nats.

5. (I know I said, four, but this is the obvious one). Arean has to find a way to get these players on the field as much as possible when healthy: Donovan, Beasley, O'Brien, Reyna, Mathis, Wolff. (Wolff is the only question mark there, but you cant deny his results for the Nats when healthy.)

 

Re: Re: An attempt at serious discussion... what do we still need to get to WC2006?

NEVER take the chance of losing. I know that even our C team should win some of the early games pretty early, but the risk is not worth the reward. I don't think playing an unknown in a meaningful game against some small island is going to tell you any more than playing that same person in a friendly against a top national team.

I say do what it takes to qualify, then worry about getting players "experience." Unless I'm mistaken, Mastroeni and Beas weren't too experienced at the full international level and they fared just find in J/K.

 

Don't forget Eddie Robinson for central D. With Dayak out for the next several weeks after surgery and Eddie just coming back from injury, we'll get some good looks at him on the Quakes- and he's a lot steadier than Suarez, in terms of challenging for Bocanegra's tandem with Pope. Eddie and Eddie in central D in 2006- it could happen.

DougO

 

Re: Defenders

Good thoughts.

I agree with you about Agoos -- against certain opponents and in certain venues (like a narrowish field a la Spartan stadium) he may prove very useful.

Berhalter I think will be too old; and I think Bruce would rather get Bocanegra as much experience as possible in this position now.

Stone and Smythe were remarking that Vanney has lost weight and looks much fitter. However, his age is going to be a problem. Personally, I never thought he was an international caliber defender, but Bruce clearly did, intending to take him to J/K.

Califf's stock is rising. I don't think Suarez at this point is an international level defender, but he certainly has his virtues. I believe the same about Garcia, but he is younger and may have more upside and room for improvement.

The word I would use to describe our defenders, other than Pope and Bocanegra, is "serviceable." One thing that J/K proved, is that in the WC finals you need speed -- and lots of it -- and athleticism in your back line. Agoos -- God bless 'im!! -- was just overmatched on those wide beautifully manicured fields and the speed demons he was matched up against.

The problem of course is that in defense, you need experience -- I'd say 4+ years minimum of professional experience, along with the wheels.

The criteria I'd like to see on the basic resume is:

--30 or younger in '06

--5-8 years of 1st division playing experience

--20+ caps.

Not too many guys out there are going to fill that particular bill. As a result, what we may see coming to the fore are certain guys not on radar screen now (Gibbs, Gooch, Gbandi) who give you youth and SOME experience.

 

Play every game to win. Period. End of story. Until advancement is assured.

Please, please, please! ANYONE but Danny boy Califf.

 

We should easily be on top of Concacaf with Mexico every time qualifying comes around from depth due to our domestic league. If Jamaica or Costa Rica's domestic leagues are better than MLS I'll eat a toad.

I think we need to loosen up and let the midfielders be more creative with the forwards. When Mathis or Donovan make that surprise move unexpectedly is when a good chance is created. We need all the players going forward with that mentality. Don't continuosly go to the flank and cross. Occassionally spread out the defense and let someone dribble up the opponents gut. Our offense still seems dull and typical except for brief occassions. We need to expand on those creative moments in each game.

We also really need a couple people who can accurately shoot the ball on goal from 30 yards out to keep the opposing goal keeper honest and threatened.

 

Of the over-30s in this group, the only two who have a strong shot at making the team despite their age are Pope and Hejduk. For Pope, the issue will be health. For Frankie, it's whether he doesn't suffer a torn ACL or some other injury that reduces his speed.

Everone else, I think we can pretty much write off for '06 -- as a defender anyway.

It was no accident that Cherundolo did not get off the bench in J/K. I don't think he can play an outside right back internationally -- he is just too small -- especially against teams that bring size to the front line. And I think better options on the right side of midfield will present themselves by '06.

I think there may be no room at the inn for Steve.

 

IIRC Steve had a knee injury early on in Japorea and could not play. His German coach wanted it operated on immediately, but Steve wanted to stay with the team through the tourney. He came home earlier than the rest of the guys and had it scoped in San Diego.

 

Me and my wife too. Do you plan on going to any specific locations or is it too early?

 

My wife and I also. Plus her sister, the husband (maybe) and their 4 kids. The boys would be 14 & 15 at that time, and can't wait to be able to drink beer.

Along with about a dozen of my friends.

We're looking for a house to rent.

 

I fully agree. I just wanted the question on the board. Bruce may still "surprise" us a bit in the early rounds but not in a "big chance" way.

 

First, Cherundulo was injured, and that's why he didn't make it off the bench.

Second, Gary Neville is about 4'0 (actually 180 cm according to ManUtd.com, whatever that works out to in inches, damned metric system) and he seemed to do quite well for England....

 

I think Vanney has a shot assuming that he stays in good physical condition. 32 isnt especially old. Berhalter though I think will be pushed off the central defender depth chart.

 

We also have a big question mark with Claudio Reyna. I think he is going to be moved by 2006. He is not an aggressive offensive minded player.

I thought he was brilliant against Mexico playing the right flank in a 3-5-2. That is an option. Especially considering our lack of depth on the right flank.
Friedel
Bocanegra----------Pope--------JOB
----------------Reyna----------
---Donovan---------------------DMB
---------------Convey-----------
--------Mathis--------Adu--------

That line up would be have a mixture of youth, experience, skill, grit... I think it could work.

Kinda joking about Adu, but... this a team with skill. I could see some serious results with a line up like this.