Americans in The Premiership

I think you should wait a few more months before claiming that BM has been a success.

 

1. McBride is good, but he is an unknown quantity. Lets see how defences do against him further down the line, once he has played in a few more games first.

2. Only if an English club has no recourse but to go and ask the MLS if they can buy/borrow them. These superstars may want to play in the Premiership, but they can't just walk in. They need a club to go and ask for them. Here's something,. I would rather see Rooney do well at Everton than McBride. Why? Because Rooney is a young English lad made good for his home town club. Call it jingoistic, but thats the way I am.

 

Re: Re: Americans in The Premiership

Hmmm...well, not only is an English club having to ask an American club to sign a player a given, I don't think that's what the original poster was saying (ie. he was not saying "should Americans be able to walk into the Premiership??"). I think what he meant is, should American players be less worried about playing in the Premiership now?? We've seen many players come in, make something of a splash, only to be benched and play in the reserves time after time (hello Eddie Lewis). With McBride doing so well in just two or three matches, perhaps English clubs will be more willing to let Americans prove themselves.

In terms of your Rooney comment. It just so happens that he's a fantastic prospect that is doing quite well. But local or not, clubs need to play their best players, no matter where they are from. I doubt many bluenoses would want the manager to continue starting a local kid that wasn't as good as a foreigner just because he was local.

 

Nationality has got nothing to do with it. Joe Max Moore was benched because he wasn't good enough, not because he was American.

To be honest not a huge amount is being said about McBride because Everton are not a club that is particularly newsworthy.

 

True enough about Moore, but I think alot of English managers come into it with the view that an American player has less experience than an English player would and would be less likely to give them the benefit of the doubt in terms of dips in form and what not.

I'm not sure what you're last point has to do with the thread.

 

Re: Re: Re: Americans in The Premiership

I am not sure that Eddie Lewis ever made a splash at Fulham.

 

There could be truth in that, but a player will be judged on how he performs. There are so many nationalities in the premiership, many from countries with worse national teams and much worse leagues than the MLS, so there's no reason to think that managers would be 'suspicious' of American players. There have been Americans playing in England now for long enough for the novelty to have worn off.

My last point was because I interpreted "what does everyone think...." to be a reference to the English media, rather than just people on these boards.

 

Not sure if Eddie Lewis not playing was the result of:
1) a bias against Americans
2) a bias against wingers
3) a bias against anyone not French

In any case, he scored a goal a game in the reserves for two years. One would think that is enough to get a manager's attention...

 

Re: Re: Re: Americans in The Premiership

Should American players be less worried about playing in the Premiership? Same answer I would give if the person coming in was Italian. Depends on their experience. Playing in the Premiership is unlike playing in any league in the world. It is totally different to playing in Spain, Italy, etc. The standard is about the same, but the pace is so much higher. Look at Veron. He could walk into any club in Europe, pretty much, and settle rapidly. It has taken just over a year to settle at United, as he has no time on the ball to do any of his little tricks. You watch him now, he has dropped that, and concentrated on the clever quick pass, which is working for him.

As to my comment about about Rooney/McBride. Just to clarify. I would rather see a young English lad get a run in the squad if the replacement 'foreigner' was of similar standard. Of course, if the lad was pants, I would a) want the foreigner in as he was better, and b)wonder what on earth the manager is doing playing someone out of their depth.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Americans in The Premiership

He did. On no less than three separate occasions. Splashed one right into the toilet druing the pre-match shlt.

Tigana was perhaps even less impressed with Eddie bowels than he was by his crosses.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Americans in The Premiership

He never had a chance to. But he ran riot in the reserves and scored bags of goals.

 

4) Lewis is not a Premiership-quality player.

On 3), I suggest you go and check how many different nationalities are represented at Fulham and note the fact that earlier in the season they fielded a team where every single player was from a different country.

 

Exactly. I don't understand why some of the American fans seem to believe that Americans get benched for being American and not because they aren't good. I mean besides Friedel, no American has really done anything special in England. It's way too early to tell about McBride, but hopefully he does ok.

 

Are you forgetting Harkes?

 

Hi guys. Just registered so hope I'm replying to the right thread here.

Americans in the Premiership.

A few points. Why are there so few? There should, statistically, be more. Definitely. So why aren't there? I've been thinking about this. I propose the following:- Do you remember the old saying, "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM"? (showing my IT background here, but replace IBM for anything extremely mainstream and industry standard and you have the same idea)
I believe this is an element of it. Think about it. You're taking a gamble. You're a manger and you're going to sign a foreign player. Either an Italian or an American. Which do you sign? The American should have the edge as there won't be a language barrier, but then again think of all the tried and trusted Italians, French, and Germans that have come over and done so well (and don't even start me on the infinitely dependable Scandinavians!!!). Where is the precedent of Americans coming over and doing well? Apart from a few here and there it doesn't exist. But hopefully that will change. For my money Brad Friedel is the best goal keeper in the Premiership this season. And Kasey Keller also used to be fantastic when he was at Leicester (don't think he's as good since he got back from Spain). But goalies are a breed apart. We need outfield players to make a splash. I think the Prem is just waiting for a real superstar American player to make an impact. Brian McBride has done tremendously well in a short space of time, but I can't help thinking it's been adrenaline seeing him through, and I've seen so many players turn up at a new league and fire some big shots only to dry up after half a dozen games (Macarone at Middlesborough springs to mind).
I'd say that what's needed is an American, probably a striker, to come over to the Prem (any team will do here) and score 20+ goals in a full season. I don't believe it's been done before. There's got to be a first, and then the masses can follow. And it will only be good for American soccer. Remember the French won the 98 World Cup and their domestic league was nowhere nearly as good as Italy/Germany/Spain/England before that, and still in 5th place now. They did well because all their players were at the best leagues in Europe.

 

Good first post. Welcome to BigSoccer.

I don't think it's just an outfield player we need doing well in England, but a striker. Claudio Reyna is already considered Sunderland's best player (a lot of Sunderland fans are of the opinion that he's their only world-class player), and for two years he was statistically the best midfielder in Scotland. Going back further, if you ask Sheffield Wednesday fans, John Harkes can do no wrong. Of course, neither has ever been the attention-grabbing type. Harkes was a defensive midfielder, Reyna has great touch and vision but doesn't get forward as much as a traditional playmaker. Even in the States, most of us didn't realize how important Reyna was until we had to play without him. Sunderland supporters have been more knowledgeable in that regard, but the British press as a rule isn't as observant as the hardcore supporters. Anyone who doesn't watch Sunderland week-in and week-out thinks Kevin Phillips is more important.

So where are the US goalscorers? Well, all but one of the goals that we scored at the World Cup were scored by MLS players. But for English clubs wanting to sign American attacking players, there's a catch: almost none of them qualify for work permits! McBride does by the 75% rule, but Mathis, Beasley, Wolff, and Donovan would all have to appeal. The other catch is that the main transfer window now falls right into the middle of the MLS season, when MLS is most unwilling to sell; and the January transfer window falls when MLS has been out of season for more than three months and is largely out of public attention. Even if this isn't a problem, managers are still reluctant to sign American strikers because the only one to get decent minutes in the Premiership (Joe-Max Moore) scored 9 goals in his first 11 matches and scored only twice more in two full seasons. To be fair to Moore, he was injured immediately after his brilliant scoring streak and was never the same afterward, but I don't think anyone cares. All that the world sees is that he faded after a fast start.

I think what McBride does in this loan spell is likely to have a significant bearing on what happens in the future. If McBride does well, then I can see other clubs willing to take a chance on other MLS strikers. Perhaps even more crucial is Clint Mathis - he has announced that he will not renew his MLS contract after the 2003 season, and will go to Europe on a free transfer. If any American player has a shot at scoring 20 Premiership goals, it's him.

 

I think you will only be able judge how good McBride is in the coming weeks. He's done a great job up until now coming into the team when we were a few men down and made an instant impact and 3 important goals. However, Rooney is now back from suspension and Campbell back from injury. We now have that pleasant dilemma of which of our 4 strikers to play. Several of our coming games are away so it's unlikely that more than 2 will start each game. And each will know that if they do get selected they are only one poor performance from a return to the bench.

Thanks for your kind words Richard - we will continue to notch up victories and enjoy the lack of media attention upon us.

 

Because of the UK work permit laws, there can only be, by definition, a handful of Americans in the Premeireship. That's just the way it is.

As for bias, I would guess, and it's only a guess, that most managers are NOT biased against American players. I'd also wager that there are some that are. Avoid those managers if you can.
David Moyes and Steve Bruce are certainly not one of them.

 

Americans could confirm this, but I think another reason there aren't more Americans in the Premiership is that MLS doesn't want to sell them. They have no interest in their best players playing in another league.

 

There are some MLS conspiracy theorists who say that MLS doesn't want to move players. You have to admit MLS is in a tough position with this. On one hand, the league needs money. On the other, selling top players is going to hurt the appeal of the league at home.

Personally, I think the timing is just bad. For whatever reason you care to believe (bias, or lack of talent seem to be popular) there wasn't any market for American players until our World Cup showing. Then, the bottom fell out of the transfer market, and player valuations sank. While MLS might want to move a big name player for a few million and risk the hit on attendance, nobody is offering that kind of money. McBride would be the perfect sell for the league; He's old, and Columbus has great fan support and the team will do fine at the gate without him. But nobody is going to over 3M, pounds or dollars, for an old, injury prone, American striker.

If we qualify, and make it out of the first round in 2006, I think you will see some more serious offers for MLS players. And I think there will be a trickle of US players skipping MLS entirely and trying their luck with Euro squads.

 

It's true though. the Media is generally London based and focusses on Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, West Ham, plus also Liverpool & Man Utd. Nobody had heard of Wayne Rooney until he scored the goal that beat Arsenal. Had that goal been against Aston Villa would the press have raved about it? I don't think so. It annoys me too, but the press tend to think if something isn't of interest to Londoners (and Everton aren't) then it's not worth writing about.

 

Yeah, but todays paper "The Mirror" had a different back page in the North West than the South East. They have different sports news for different regions. If you live in the South, Everton aren't going to get in the National papers like in the North West. Or did you know that RichardL? The national newspapers may be London biased, but they also have to sell papers.

As for this "Americans" in the Premiership. McBride has done excellent in his very short time at Everton. But so did Joe Max Moore when he came to Everton in 99/00 season. He scored 6 goals in his first 7 games. Since then he's scored an amazing 2, and was eventually released last month. But anyway, I felt sorry for him, What was Walter Smith doing putting Steve Watson upfront instead of Joe Max Moore? Well I found out last week.


Lets hope McBride keeps it up though. When Duncan Ferguson and Rodrigo gain full fitness, Moyes is going to have a selection headache with Radzinski, Campbell, Rooney, McBride already fighting it out for a place from the next game.

 

To defend Eddie Lewis, he actually did make quite a first impression at Fulham (I'll try to find the cartoon match report by Ormondroyd that bears this out), but Fulham wasn't a premiership side at the time.

 

Firstly I think Reyna Is an amazing player playing in a terrible team. Sunderland are a long ball team, this is why Don Hutchinson upped sticks for the Hammers. He complained that the ball was constantly being hoofed over his head from the back and that he wanted to join a team that played real football (okay, he ended up at Westahm, but they TRY). Reyna is a playmaker playing in an abysmal team. It doesn't help that he's had such a long lay-off with that knee injury. I expect when he's back (and Sunderland are down) he'll joina Premiership team who play good football.

Max-Moore was great. When Wenger announced he was going to buy a 'fox-in-the-box' I immediately thought of Joe MM. Instead he opted for that jug-eared cnut.

Eddie Lewis is now at Preston. He's found his level. And David Moyes tried to sign McBride ages ago. He obviously knew something us English didn't.