American expansion possibilities

Discussion in 'NWSL Expansion' started by WPS_Movement, Dec 28, 2012.

  1. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Got an e-mail as an EQZ subscriber today. For a TL;DR on unannounced and rumored expansion stuff...

    ATL has cooled off, or at least isn't happening any time soon.
    Oakland may be entering the picture via Oakland Roots SC, an soon-to-be USL side, thought that is extremely preliminary and unlikely with SAC in the picture.
    SAC is apparently still on track for 2022 but the lack of news is weird to everyone involved.
     
  2. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    Oakland could be the rumored third Cali team back when Sacrament was "almost in".
     
  3. babykhris

    babykhris Member

    Philadelpia Union
    Nov 30, 2008
    Philadlphia,PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With the European clubs buying womens clubs do you see MLS clubs doing that??
     
  4. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Clubs? Name two.

    EDIT: Unless you meant in Europe, which doesn't make too much sense as 4 MLS clubs (and two MLS wannabe USL clubs) already have bought NWSL clubs.

    In the U.S., I see Olympique Lyonnais buying a chunk of the Reign, but that's one club. And if you mean the reverse, I don't see any MLS clubs buying any European women's clubs.
     
  5. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It occurs to me that the for the Euro clubs’ women’s teams, they have the same name as the men’s teams, e.g., Olympique Lyonnaise and Manchester United. In the US, the convention is for the names to be different. The oddity is OL Reign, but even there they are not known in the US as Olympique Lyonnaise.
     
  6. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    #1356 SiberianThunderT, Sep 26, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
    I wouldn't say that the "convention" in the US is for clubs to have different names. NWSL is really the first instance where brother/sister clubs haven't had the same name. I believe that's largely a function of the fact that MLS is Adidas while NWSL is Nike, so there's a branding issue. But before NWSL, if you saw any organizations that fielded both men's and women's teams, they were almost always the same name. Think Atlanta Silverbacks, Ottawa Fury, Charlotte Eagles, FC Dallas, Real Salt Lake (by adoption), Seattle Sounders and DC United (by nameshare), an incredible number of WPSL/NPSL clubs, etc. The only obvious pre-NWSL exceptions I can think of are Pali Blues/OC Blues and St. Louis Athletica/AC St. Louis.
     
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  7. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I'd bet the other team last year was more likely San Jose, or maybe LAG. From how it's been reported, Oakland is *very* new in NWSL explorations.
     
  8. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    The adidas/Nike thing - with regards to team names, jersey patterns, and so on is real.
     
  9. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    let's see what the 2021 season looks like first. Hopefully with some kind of normalcy it can help drive expansion discussions further.
     
  10. babykhris

    babykhris Member

    Philadelpia Union
    Nov 30, 2008
    Philadlphia,PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I meant I know a few MLS clubs own NWSL clubs do you that happening more in the future??
     
  11. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Current MLS+NWSL organizations:
    --Portland Timbers+Thorns
    --Houston Dynamo+Dash
    --Orlando City+Pride
    --Real Salt Lake + Utah Royals

    Current USL+NWSL organizations:
    --NC FC+Courage
    --Louisville City+Racing

    Previously discussed potential MLS+NWSL expansions:
    --Atlanta
    --Sacramento
    --Miami
    --Cincinnati
    --Minnesota
    --San Jose
    --Nashville
    --Austin
    --LA teams
    --NY teams

    While Angel City is a nice example of how independent ownership groups can form to get new NWSL franchises, it's a fairly commonly accepted thought that MLS organizations can easily take advantage of streamlined overhead operations to let NWSL sister teams "just make sense". There's a sizeable sector of US soccer fans that "expect" MLS teams to create sister NWSL teams in the future.
     
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  12. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
  13. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Arnim Whistler was speaking about the trade to Louisville and said there are two teams in for 2022, and possibly two in 2023. We know LA is in for 2022, and I'm guessing Sacramento as well. I'm not sure on the 2023 two.

     
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  14. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    Cincinnati and Austin seem to have the most traction currently. Atlanta has disappeared and no other MLS group has been making noise recently. There is also that rumored third California team(Oakland? San Jose? San Diego?).
     
  15. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    f this potential ownership group in Kansas City can't get the Royals, are they next in line for an expansion team(ahead of Sacramento)?

     
  16. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    #1366 SiberianThunderT, Nov 24, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
    I think you're mixing a few terms here?

    If any group buys the Royals, then it's not an expansion, it a relocation.

    If this KC group doesn't buy the Royals, then they'd be starting from scratch, so they wouldn't be ahead of the Sacramento group unless Sac completely falls through. And it costs waaaaayyyy more to start from scratch that it does purchasing an existing team, so IDK if the KC group would be at the table at all if they don't get the Royals.

    Worth pointing out that the article mentions a January 8th deadline for the sale of Utah Soccer Holdings, imposed by MLS, and there are multiple groups aside from the KC group in the purchasing picture. I think this KC group is getting attention for expressing interest *only* in the Royals; also, they don't seem concerned about being named publicly, which is a weird counterpoint to the two other groups currently involved. The Qualtrics group may or may not still be in the picture too; the article wording suggests that saga ended with them settling for a stake in the Jazz, but they don't really discount the idea of them not still being in the picture.

    Either way, that January 8th deadline seems rather late in the game to me. If a relocation for the Royals happens, that doesn't leave much time for securing the playing and training facilities for the 2021 season. I wonder if a late relocation would result in one year of remote funding as the Royals complete one last season in SLC while proper preparations happen at the new location.
     
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  17. blissett

    blissett Member+

    Aug 20, 2011
    Italy
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Worth noting that in this case we would have a re-relocation back home to the original place, since Utah Royals were the new incarnation of Kansas City FC.

    I have to say that, from an European perspective, stories like this look crazy: here in Europe we don't even have the concept of "franchise", the teams are tied to their location. The very idea of a team born in Kansas City, moved to Utah and then going back in Kansas City seems nuts to us! :x3:
     
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  18. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    #1368 Cliveworshipper, Nov 25, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020

    From an American perspective, franchises are attached to the owner of the franchise rights.

    as a quiz for our Euro friends,

    how many cities have the Braves baseball tam been in?
    The Raiders NFL team?
    The Rams NFL team?
    the Brooklyn trolley dodgers?
    How about the Colts? ( hint: they are names after the horses that run the Preakness)


    Special bonus:

    where is original South Liverpool fc now located?

    Nottingham Forest? : hint- not Nottingham.

    where was ciudad Murcia founded?

    where does Arles play its matches?

    how about the Austrian Asko Pashing?

    whre was Athlico Catania founded?

    West Ham isn’t in West Ham - or in East ham for that matter. It’s in Stratford.

    I’ll catch a Sheffield match the next time I’m in Derbyshire.
     
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  19. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    And for further cud chewing, there is only one first division team in any sport in the USA that is owned by fans or a club rather than a select ownership group.

    the Green Bay Packers sold shares in the team years ago to finance Lambeau Field.

    ticket holders own a majority share. As part of the purchase, they are forbidden to sell them.
     
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  20. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    So if the Utah Royals end up staying in Salt Lake, there's little chance this ownership group would be interested in an expansion team?
     
  21. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I wouldn't rule it out that the KC group could still be interested, but it'd be a bigger cost to start a brand new KC team than to get the Royals back. It just depends on how much money they're willing to throw at NWSL.

    Either way, they need to show they have a plan, rather than just put money in. SKC has already said an NWSL team wouldn't use their stadium, and it's not like there are any other good SSSs in the KC area.
     
  22. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Then there's the tale of Charlton Athletic and The Valley.
     
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  23. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    And before anyone freaks out to much about where an NWSL team would play in KC since Swope Park (at 3k) was really just a stopgap, and Children's Mercy Park (aka Sporting Park) was never going to be more than the odd game is both too big and not really available with the MLS and USL sides loading the field, there is an option that didn't really exist before.

    From 2008-2010 the then-Kansas City Wizards played a few blocks from CMP at CommunityAmerica Ballpark. A nice modern minor league baseball stadium. Arrowhead was being renovated during the summers of 2008 and 2009 and unavailable. The Wizards owners pumped in a bunch of money to change part of the outfield wall to shoehorn in a soccer field, and the team played their for three years to mostly 10,385 capacity sellout crowds while Sporting Park was built. The Wizards also basically paid off the debt the T-Bones (independent league) baseball team had wracked up. Well the county (Wyandotte) or city (KCK) evicted the T-Bones after the 2019 season.

    I believe a new team was set to play this year, but I'm not sure they did. And as an independent minor league baseball team, I'm sure they'd be more than happy to have an NWSL co-tenant willing to cover some of the stadium rent.

    Plus 10,385 is a much better max capacity for the NWSL than 18k+ down the street.
     
  24. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    If the Royals stay in Utah and Kansas City turns into an expansion team, we could have:

    2021: Louisville
    2022: Angel City & Sacramento
    2023: Kansas City & Cincinnati
    2024: Austin & Atlanta?
     
  25. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Of these four, I think Austin in the furthest along in potential discussions, if only because it's the only one of the four we've heard of moderately recently that's actually interested in expansion. ATL and CIN have been radio silent on NWSL for well over a year, and KC is a question mark if they have to start from scratch instead of do a relocation.
     

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