Am I expecting too much as a JV coach?

Discussion in 'Coach' started by helmzgk, Nov 6, 2002.

  1. helmzgk

    helmzgk New Member

    Jun 14, 2002
    california
    I'm a first year JV coach for my former high school. My kids are aged 14-16 years old and all seem to fit that athletic type. We did a full field scrimmage today and most of my players got winded within the first thirty minutes, especially my midfield.
    I'm currently playing college soccer myself and we do 10 120 yard dashes in under 15 seconds, the Cooper test, bleachers, 8 "field" laps each under 1:05 as part of our training routine. I make my players do some of these runs (excluding cooper) but with a little bit more time. For example: 9 "track" laps in 18 minutes, 8"field" laps in 1:15 each, 4 "field" laps in 5:30 alltogether and also twenty-thirty minute runs. I don't feel that's too much, but I can see in the way they run that they get tired pretty fast. Should I cut back a little bit or make it tougher on them?
     
  2. schmuckatelli

    schmuckatelli New Member

    Nov 10, 2000
    Their performance should tell you what you need to know, if you apply the 70% rule: if 70% are able to do what you ask them to, you probably have a good standard. If fewer than 70% can get there, maybe cut 'em some slack, jack. If more than 70% can meet your requirements, make them more difficult.
     
  3. wunderkid

    wunderkid New Member

    Mar 17, 2000
    Chicago
    I never played soccer in high school but one of the hardest workouts i ever had to face was wrestling practice. A lot of running, sprinting, half situps and pushups...it was extremely difficult and it weeded out those who are willing to work and those who cant cut it...obviously you dont want to lose everyone and i dont know what you have to work with, but the harder you push them now, the less embarassed they will be on the field come game day.

    When i was 15 i was in my peak physical condition and wish i had that discipline to do it again. It made me tougher mentally and physically.
     
  4. SOCPLAYER3

    SOCPLAYER3 New Member

    Dec 8, 2001
    ILLINOIS
    I personally do not believe that at a high school level players should be running just for conditioning purposes without the ball. There are so many drills that can be found in books and online that incorporate movement (conditioning) and touches on the ball.


    Just my two cents
     
  5. blech

    blech Member+

    Jun 24, 2002
    California
    i don't think it is so black and white. obviously, it is best if you can involve the ball with your conditioning, and you should make every effort to do so. and, if you are limited to one or two practices a week, this has to be a priority.

    that said, the typical HS program has practice every day, often for at least 1.5 hours if not 2 hours. i'm not advocating running for running sake, but with this many hours of practice per week you can usually afford to sacrifice some ball time for some more serious training. i know as a player that i benefitted from this (even though i didn't like it at the time), and would suggest that within reason it has its place.
     
  6. thurd

    thurd New Member

    Jul 31, 2001
    Melrose, MA
    i think get them conditioned first, then do some conditioning with the ball.
     
  7. helmzgk

    helmzgk New Member

    Jun 14, 2002
    california
    Ballwork quality is very low and frustrating for me and the players if they are not fit. I still have three more weeks before games start and am in my fifth week with them. I also believed that ballwork and conditioning would go well together, but after about a month, only half my players can complete two miles in under 16 minutes. I've been running them before full field scrimmage since and it seems to be helping, distance and time have both improved in a good number of my players. BTW, I'm working with 30 kids, and I would cut the ones that don't want to work, but that combined with grades, I'd be left with about 10 players. It sucks, but I gotta keep them all.

    Plus, I'm playing at a college level myself, I do not believe in books and online sites to help me with practices, I believe in own experiences and drills that are customized to my team's needs. I do, however, like videos as they actually show you what to do and you can become creative off the videos.
     
  8. Glenwood Lane United

    Apr 28, 2001
    Hanover Park, IL
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's probably late for this, but we did most of our pure conditioning in the two weeks between our first practice and our first game.....conditioning was usually done after practice.

    We did very little conditioning without the ball during the course of the season.
     
  9. helmzgk

    helmzgk New Member

    Jun 14, 2002
    california
    That's actually what I'm doing right now. I get about 1.5 hours with these kids so for about 45 minutes we run, 45 minutes we play. coming up to the first game we'll start talking tactics and less conditioning, and of course no where near as much conditioning during season. I think during the season we'll continue with tactical adn technical skills as well as full field scrimmage.
     
  10. helmzgk

    helmzgk New Member

    Jun 14, 2002
    california
    BTW, thanks to all with the help, i really appreciate it.
     
  11. Jeff L

    Jeff L Member

    May 12, 2002
    London
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I can remember having the same experience when I coached my elder son's team. After 20 minutes running they were tired. I told them, that if they can't manage "half of the first half" how will they manage the second 45 minutes?
    However if your time with them is "limited" then practice the ball work and skills and tactics. Tell them to run and get fit in their own time. It's for their own benefit, not just for yours. Teach them the things they need to know for the team. Tell them the running drills they can do by themselves or with their friends. "Team time" is more important.
     
  12. helmzgk

    helmzgk New Member

    Jun 14, 2002
    california
    That's the difficult part, they're not that mature. I'll tell them tomorrow is a running day, and tomorrow they'll eat a hamburger, cookies, and drink a soda right during lunch. I can tell them to run on their own, but i know they won't. It's worth a shot but I highly doubt it'll happen.
     
  13. Various Styles

    Various Styles Member+

    Mar 1, 2000
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Am I expecting too much as a JV coach

    Johan Cruyff said it best "Running is for Cowards" Ball technique is better, controll that and you can play practically walking.
     
  14. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

    Sep 2, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As for the 2nd comment, doesn't it bother you that anything you do is then limited by the coaches you've had in the past? You really think nobody else has anything to offer?

    As for the conditioning, why 2 mile runs? That's not the type of running you do in a game. Why not have interval training with sprints separated by periods of jogging and rest? Start with a jog, whistle them for a 10 second sprint, whistle to a jog, whistle to a five second sprint, doble whistle to walking, whistle to a jog, etc...

    Having the sprinting and periods of intense work, with short periods for recovery mirrors what their bodies will need to do in a game. Think about how Evander Holyfield revolutionized boxing training, where his training focused on 800 meter work with short recovery intervals, just like the 3 minute round with 1-minute rest periods in between.

    Also, I would conduct skills training first, especially if that is a high need area. They'll be fresher mentally and better able to concentrate. Plus you want to build on current levels of fitness, let them push themselves with the technical work and then take them past current levels of comfort with fitness work. (when do you want their fitness work to show the greatest effect in the 1st thru 45th minutes, or in the 80th thru 90th minutes).

    Saving fitness for last also give you more flexibility in working on technique. If your players are going hard, working quickly and moving a lot while addressing technical needs, keep them going knowing your getting the best of both worlds. Some days, though, things are ragged...stop the technical work, go to fitness, and then try to resume (or not) the technical work after an attitude shift.

    Just a thought. And I also find people work a lot harder when they're competing and chasing a ball.
     
  15. Torman

    Torman New Member

    Feb 26, 2003
    Mi. USA
    There's probably a reason (or two) that these girls are on the JV. Skills. Work on 'em. As other posters have said, use a ball every chance you get. You're a soccer coach, not track. Just my 2 cents.
     
  16. helmzgk

    helmzgk New Member

    Jun 14, 2002
    california
    The seasons over, and it was a pretty decent season for my school, JV went 8-12-2, Varsity went 9-9-4(not good enough for CIF).
    The running I did went for about two weeks, we did have scrims and drills with the ball during those two weeks but we concetrated on running a lot. After the running I still had a month and a half till the first game so we just did drills and scrims for that entire time, working of technical and tactical stuff, expecially tactical stuff.
    Overall it was pretty good and I'll probably mix it up a bit next year. Thanks for all the tips.
     
  17. Roel

    Roel Member

    Jan 15, 2000
    Santa Cruz mountains
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Track and wrestling conditioning workouts are excellent preparation for a soccer season. These workouts build confidence, as well as prepare the children as over-all athletes. Work with both the varsity coach and the local U12-14 coaches to make sure they are putting an emphasis on conditioning. You guys will thank each other for it later. My only recommended changes are to start when they are younger, and start a little earlier in the season.

    I coached my daughters team from U10 to U14. Most of the 10-11 year old could run a mile. By 8th grade, they were all on track teams, and a couple made their wrestling teams. In high school, most every one of them made varsity (soccer, track, x-country, volleyball).

    Conventional wisdom says conditioning should be done with a ball, and not track or wrestling style. Nah. Get them fit. Then they can do anything.
     
  18. Torman

    Torman New Member

    Feb 26, 2003
    Mi. USA
    Records are fine, if you're on the varsity, but at the JV level?

    My question is: How many of your players got promoted to varsity this year? How many have a chance next year?

    That's the record to strive for!
     
  19. helmzgk

    helmzgk New Member

    Jun 14, 2002
    california
    Varsity is losing three seniors, that's all, that'll bring they're total down to 14 players, The varsity coach is impressed with 6 of my guys, but I think maybe 8 of my guys can make the varsity team.
     
  20. Michael Russ

    Michael Russ Member

    Jun 11, 2002
    Buffalo, NY
    I couldn't disagree with this more.

    Give me 11 guys who are only in decent shape with tactical awareness and ball skills and they will destroy the 11 marathon runners every time.

    Conditonong alone may work at the high school level, simply because that is the way so many high school teams train, that none of your opponents will have any skills either, but I bet well trained club teams would blow these high school clubs away.
     

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