Alternative World Rankings Thread

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by vancity eagle, Dec 27, 2018.

  1. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    I only use friendlies during FIFA windows.

    And if a team has 0 first team players (like was the case with yesterday's friendly) I dont count it either.

    This is why ELO rankings are very poor, especially when it comes to ranking African sides who play far more matches with B or C teams than any other confederation. They have entire tournaments with C teams that can seriously effect your ranking even though it's not the real team.
     
  2. r0adrunner

    r0adrunner Member+

    Jun 4, 2011
    London, UK
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I didn't know Elo rankings included such results.

    I think any reliable ranking should not include friendlies whatsoever.
     
  3. almango

    almango Member+

    Sydney FC
    Australia
    Nov 29, 2004
    Bulli, Australia
    Club:
    Sydney FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Australia
    ELO use the below weightings
    • 60 for World Cup finals;
    • 50 for continental championship finals and major intercontinental tournaments;
    • 40 for World Cup and continental qualifiers and major tournaments;
    • 30 for all other tournaments;
    • 20 for friendly matches.
    Fifa use the below

    05 Friendly matches played outside of International Match Calendar windows
    10 Friendly matches played during International Match Calendar windows
    15 Group phase matches of Nations League competitions
    25 Play-off and final matches of Nations League competitions
    25 Qualification matches for Confederations final competitions and for FIFA World Cup final competitions
    35 Confederation final competition matches up until the QF stage
    40 Confederation final competition matches from the QF stage onwards; all FIFA Confederations Cup matches
    50 FIFA World Cup final competition matches up until QF stage
    60 FIFA World Cup final competition matches from QF stage onwards

    You can argue the relative weightings but I think friendlies should be counted (at a reduced weighting). FIFA differentiate between non window friendlies and window friendlies which they should. They also weight friendlies less than ELO. Friendlies happen less often these days in some parts of the world but they are still pretty important in others and also amongst lower ranked nations. FIFA also has some point savings conditions for knockout matches in major tournaments.
     
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  4. r0adrunner

    r0adrunner Member+

    Jun 4, 2011
    London, UK
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Thanks, I remember now that FIFA use weightings depending on the game's status, definitely helps make the ranking more accurate.
     
  5. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    There's the major flaw of Elo and why the African teams are so off.

    Major tournaments 40
    All other tournaments 30

    Those tournaments for strictly domestic based players are worth nearly as much as the afcon.

    I think friendlies should be counted (fifa window only). The non window friendlies shouldn't count at all, but I actually think FIFA doesn't make the fifa window ones count enough. Their system is very unreactive overall, while Elos is overreactive.
     
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  6. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    #531 vancity eagle, Jun 2, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2024
    Going back to our discussion about Indonesia.

    They just drew a friendly match with Tanzania 0-0 at home. The Tanzania team had 2 starters from their last afcon Match, while Indonesia had 6 starters from their last world cup qualifier where they beat Vietnam 3-0.

    This leads to the obvious conclusion that Tanzania is a stronger side.

    Your rankings have Indonesia at #110 and Tanzania at #115

    Mine have Indonesia at #146 and Tanzania at #92

    FIFA has Tanzania at #119 and Indonesia at #134
     
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  7. Kamtedrejt

    Kamtedrejt Member+

    Internazionale Milano
    Albania
    Mar 14, 2017
    Hamburg
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    Albania
    #532 Kamtedrejt, Jun 2, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2024
    I watched the game. Tanzania played actually with 3 starters. (Manula, Husseini and Mkami - all these players started all 3 games at AFCON 2023)
    These are the goalkepper, the left back and a center mid. But doesn't change much on the narrative. Indonesia was previously 64.5 rated by me. I bumped up their rating to 67 for having beaten Vietnam home and away last window.
    I had sensed that that upgrade was a tad bit too generous (should have rather upgraded them to 66.5 at best)

    Well, both teams had chances. Indonesia hit the crossbar in the second half and was overall slightly closer to win. Tanzania are for now slightly better than them. But Indonesia have great potential and will if not in the next months certainly so in the next 1-2 years surpass Tanzania.

    You definately gotta fix up your ranking for Indonesia. While it's possible to argue that I have them slightly too high as of now you have them significantly too low I feel.
     
  8. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    Indonesia is on an upward trajectory, so as long as they get results similar to what they have been getting and not results like (Libya 4 Indonesia 0, Iran 5 Indonesia 0, Iraq 5 Indonesia 1, Australia 4 Indonesia 0) then they will go up.

    But as you can see, some very poor results even very recently, so no I don't think my ranking is particularly harsh on them.
     
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  9. Gibraldo

    Gibraldo Member+

    radnicki nis
    Serbia
    Nov 17, 2005
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    totally agree with you.

    friendly matches are nonsense to be used for ranking and also other historical data.
    so many reasons for that.

    1) teams are in different phases, for one team it is a tournament prep, for the other just a friendly
    2.) 2nd line players used for testing
    3.) different rules on substitutions
     
  10. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    Indonesia 0 Iraq 2

    They lost to Iraq at home. Went down to 10 men around the 55th minute and it was 0-0 at that point.

    Well at least it's better than 5-1 they lost to Iraq last time.
     
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  11. Kamtedrejt

    Kamtedrejt Member+

    Internazionale Milano
    Albania
    Mar 14, 2017
    Hamburg
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    Albania
    It was expected that they would lose. I predicted a 1-0 Iraq win. They had their chances though. I counted three very good chances. One of them when they were one man down. They show that they are a side who treatens to break through in the next couple of years. For now they are not top 100 material. But the potential is there. And they'll get there.
     
  12. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    My updated ranking after Summer matches

    World Cup qualifying, Euro, and Copa

    World Soccer Rankings July 2024

    1. Argentina – 87
    2. Spain – 84
    3. Colombia - 79
    4. France - 77
    5. Netherlands - 73
    6. Japan – 73
    7. Portugal – 72
    8. England - 70
    9. Uruguay - 68
    10. Brazil - 68
    11. Germany - 67
    12. Croatia – 63
    13. Morocco – 63
    14. Austria - 60
    15. Belgium - 60
    16. Senegal – 59
    17. Switzerland - 57
    18. Ecuador - 55
    19. USA - 55
    20. Hungary - 54
    21. Australia – 53
    22. Italy – 52
    23. Turkey - 50
    24. Slovenia - 50
    25. Denmark – 49
    26. Venezuela - 49
    27. Ukraine - 48
    28. Mali – 48
    29. Serbia – 47
    30. Tunisia - 47
    31. Ivory Coast - 46
    32. Iran – 46
    33. S. Korea – 46
    34. South Africa - 45
    35. Poland - 45
    36. Norway - 45
    37. Cameroon – 44
    38. Mexico – 44
    39. Nigeria – 43
    40. Canada - 43
    41. Panama - 42
    42. Slovakia - 41
    43. Scotland - 41
    44. Czechia – 41
    45. Peru - 41
    46. Greece - 41
    47. Algeria – 40
    48. Sweden – 40
    49. Wales - 40
    50. Cape Verde – 40
    51. Russia – 39
    52. R. Congo – 39
    53. Georgia - 39
    54. Chile – 39
    55. Ireland Rep - 39
    56. Ghana - 38
    57. Egypt – 38
    58. Saudi Arabia - 37
    59. Jordan - 36
    60. Angola – 36
    61. Finland – 36
    62. Albania – 35
    63. E. Guinea – 35
    64. Romania - 34
    65. Guinea – 34
    66. Qatar – 33
    67. Paraguay - 33
    68. Uzbekistan – 32
    69. Costa Rica - 31
    70. Jamaica - 31
    71. Zambia - 29
    72. Burkina Faso - 29
    73. Bulgaria – 29
    74. Montenegro – 29
    75. Bolivia - 29
    76. Namibia - 29
    77. Iraq – 28
    78. N. Ireland - 28
    79. Gabon – 28
    80. Mauritania - 28
    81. Kosovo - 27
    82. Benin – 27
    83. Kenya - 27
    84. Bosnia & H – 27
    85. Macedonia - 27
    86. Comoros – 27
    87. Israel – 26
    88. Togo - 26
    89. Iceland – 25
    90. Tanzania - 25
    91. Luxembourg – 25
    92. Mozambique - 24
    93. Madagascar - 24
    94. Kazakhstan - 24
    95. Gambia – 23
    96. Rwanda - 23
    97. Azerbaijan – 23
    98. Guinea Bissau – 23
    99. Sierra Leone – 23
    100. UAE - 22
     
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  13. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    the rest

    101. Ethiopia – 22
    102. New Zealand - 21
    103. Honduras - 21
    104. Bahrain - 21
    105. Armenia – 21
    106. Central Africa Rep – 21
    107. Malawi - 21
    108. Lesotho – 21
    109. Libya – 20
    110. Sudan - 19
    111. Guatemala – 19
    112. Oman – 19
    113. Zimbabwe - 19
    114. Haiti - 19
    115. El Salvador – 19
    116. Uganda - 19
    117. Moldova - 18
    118. Burundi - 18
    119. Botswana – 18
    120. Syria – 17
    121. Tajikistan - 17
    122. Liberia - 17
    123. Belarus – 17
    124. Niger - 17
    125. Congo – 17
    126. Latvia – 17
    127. Lithuania – 17
    128. Trinidad & T - 16
    129. N. Korea – 16
    130. Eswatini - 16
    131. Estonia - 16
    132. China – 15
    133. Curacao – 15
    134. Lebanon - 15
    135. Faroe Islands – 15
    136. South Sudan - 14
    137. Cyprus - 14
    138. Chad – 14
    139. Malta – 14
    140. Vietnam - 13
    141. Thailand - 13
    142. Kuwait - 13
    143. Eritrea – 13
    144. Indonesia – 12
    145. Palestine - 12
    146. Malaysia – 11
    147. Turkmenistan - 11
    148. Kyrzgyzstan - 11
    149. Andorra – 11
    150. Suriname - 10
    151. Nicaragua – 10
    152. Somalia - 10
    153. India - 10
    154. Hong Kong - 9
    155. Bermuda – 8
    156. Leichenstein - 7
    157. Guyana - 7
    158. Cuba – 7
    159. Phillipines – 7
    160. Yemen - 6
    161. Mauritius – 6
    162. Sao Tome - 6
    163. Djibouti – 6
    164. Singapore - 6
    165. Afghanistan – 6
    166. Puerto Rico - 5
    167. Grenada - 5
    168. Dominican R – 5
    169. Gibraltar – 5
    170. Montserrat – 5
    171. Seychelles – 4
    172. Tahiti - 4
    173. St. Kitts & N - 3
    174. Solomon Islands - 3
    175. Barbados - 3
    176. Antigua & B – 3
    177. San Marino - 2
     
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  14. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I like the list. Not sure Colombia is 3rd but I will not complain.:D
    Heading into 2026 I think they can be 3rd though. Still lots of younger/inexperienced guys that can contribute to a good World Cup run that have not established themselves yet or played much.
     
  15. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Given that the Finalíssima will likely feature the top rated teams in the world, how will you treat it for your ranking @vancity eagle ? As a regular friendly, or do you give it a higher multiplier?
     
  16. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    Just a regular friendly/qualifier
     
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  17. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    I believe this is the highest Colombia has ever been in my rankings.

    Higher than the 2014-2018 period, even though I believe that Colombia team was better than this one.

    Combination of things, Colombia has just got a lot of good results, and there are a lot of big wins against higher rated teams.

    Also as I said in another thread I believe many teams are worse off post World Cup. Colombia is one of the few exceptions.
     
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  18. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    This team has more potential than the 2014-2018 team. Although the individuals were better during that Pekerman run the tactics and team cohesion is better now. Plus the depth and endurance will be better once those aforementioned younger players get more experience.
     
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  19. Kamtedrejt

    Kamtedrejt Member+

    Internazionale Milano
    Albania
    Mar 14, 2017
    Hamburg
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    Albania
    I ranked Colombia 10th end of May. That was even before the pre Copa America friendlies started to roll on.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1g9VCtXZ3hOePWaLo-UQe2CRbQk_qwYxDFhTpl50rsPE/edit?usp=sharing

    Taking Colombia's performances and results as a whole at this Copa and the trajectory they are on I see them currently as top 5-6 nation. I definately think Argentina, Spain, England and France are higher than Colombia. With Portugal it's really close, a tossup. Portugal made the quarters of the last World Cup and they played France toe to toe in the quarterfinals of this EURO. I'd take right now Colombia over Germany and the Netherlands. And the rest is for sure not as good as Colombia.
     
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  20. Kamtedrejt

    Kamtedrejt Member+

    Internazionale Milano
    Albania
    Mar 14, 2017
    Hamburg
    Club:
    FC Internazionale Milano
    Nat'l Team:
    Albania
    I totally agree with your sentiment. I think Colombia's ceiling for 2026 is a semi-final finish. Anoybody feel free to vote in my poll.



     
  21. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    #546 Iranian Monitor, Jul 18, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2024
    The latest (18 July 2024) FIFA rankings are out. On the whole, they seem pretty reasonable to me, although among the top 20 each of Belgium, Italy, Mexico, and Iran seem 4-5 places above where I would put them.

    https://inside.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/men

    1. Argentina
    2. France
    3. Spain
    4. England
    5. Brazil
    6. Belgium
    7. Netherlands
    8. Portugal
    9. Colombia
    10. Italy
    11. Uruguay
    12. Croatia
    13. Germany
    14. Morocco
    15. Switzerland
    16. USA
    17. Mexico
    18. Japan
    19. Senegal
    20. Iran
    21. Denmark
    22. Austria
    23. S. Korea
    24. Australia
    25. Ukraine
    26. Turkiye
    27. Ecuador
    28. Poland
    29. Sweden
    30. Wales
    31. Hungary
    32. Serbia
    33. Russia
    34. Qatar
    35. Panama
    36, Egypt
    37. Venezuela
    38. Cote d'Ivoire
    39. Nigeria
    40. Canada
    41. Tunisia
    42. Peru
    43. Chile
    44. Slovakia
    45. Romania
    46. Algeria
    47. Czechia
    48. Scotland
    49. Costa Rica
    50. Norway
    ...
     
  22. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    I'd say all those teams are a good 10 places ranked too high, with Mexico close to 20 places.
     
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  23. dinamo_zagreb

    dinamo_zagreb Member+

    Jun 27, 2010
    San Jose, CA / Zagreb, Croatia
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    I was looking where would Mexico be if they are 20 places behinde - and I see Russia. They are still ranked and are still that high? They are without a game for more than two years. Or FIFA do count their friendlies against puppet states although they suspended them from their competitions?
     
  24. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member+

    Apr 6, 2006
    when comparing FIFA to my rankings here are the most overrated teams by FIFA. I'm just keeping this to the top 50

    1. Qatar 32 places overrated
    2. Mexico 21 places
    3. Egypt 21 places
    4. Costa Rica 20 places
    5. Sweden 19 places
    6. Wales 19 places
    7. Romania 19 places
    8. Russia 18 places
    9. Italy 12 places
    10. Iran 12 places

    Now the most underrated teams in FIFA's top 50

    1. Norway 14 places underrated
    2. Japan 12 places
    3. Hungary 11 places
    4. Venezuela 11 places
    5. Tunisia 11 places
    6. Ecuador 9 places
    7. Austria 8 places
    8. Ivory Coast 7 places
    9. Scotland 5 places
     
  25. dna77054

    dna77054 Member+

    Jun 28, 2003
    houston
    Fifa has Japan at #18. So, they are #6 in your rankings?
     

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