Allianz Arena

Work will supposedly start this year still.

I'm guessing they decided to make it even bigger. Count the number of players in this rendering (it's ridiculously large, which is why I'm not displaying it here). I'm guessing it must be because Bayern has such a large and talented squad that everyone is promised playing time.

Picture
http://www.allianzarena.de/german/presse/download/pm_20020410_fcb-innen.jpg

Site in English:
http://www.allianzarena.de/english/index.html

 

Do both clubs own equal shares of the stadium? If so, then how would
such an arrangement work? Can one club veto whatever proposed event
other than football from the other club? Why did both clubs felt
it's preferable to share one new stadium?

 

Yes.

The stadium belongs to a company which belongs to Bayern and 1860. Each club has 50% shares of this company.

No.

Well, Munich has currently 1 large stadium (Olympiastadion), 1 medium stadium (Gruenwalder Stadion) and 1 small stadium (Dante-Stadion).
The Olympiastadium is the current home stadium of Bayern and 1860. Bayern has had quite long the desire to have own (pure) soccer stadium. They knew a new stadium would be extremely expensive to build (Munich is one of the most expensive cities in Europe; the most expensive city in Germany). So Bayern tryed to find other solutions. The architect of the Olympiastadion just allowed small modernisations, not the changes Bayern wanted. So Bayern knew they had to build a complete new stadium. Furthermore when this decision was made the World Championships 2006 were a hot topic. So the City of Munich supported Bayern to build a new stadium, because it was clear the old Olympiastadium wouldn't get games in case of World Championships 2006 in Germany. Munich without games? Unbelievable. So Bayern and the City of Munich searched a permise for a new stadium. And 1860 didn't want to stay alone in the Olympiastadium, which isn't still loved by the 1860 supporters. So Bayern and 1860 pays the stadium, the City of Munich, State of Bavaria, Federal Republic of Germany pays for the infrastructure.

So this is the story of Allianz Area.

 

Fascinating. Thanks for that small history lesson. Too bad there won't be that type of cooperation in Liverpool, although I wonder if it would be even possible from an economic standpoint.

I guess 1860 had decided that it's better to not rock the boat and go along with the plan, even though I think that Bayern could have found a way to fund the stadium themselves if they wanted to do that.

 

The sooner its finished the better. The Olympic Stadion has to be one of the worst I've ever been in in terms of atmosphere for a football match. The Allianz looks great (from inside).

I could be wrong but 1860 seem to get crowds of around 25,000. So won't they be a bit lost in a 66,000 capacity venue?

 

the new stadium will probably raise the average attendance (we've seen that in schlacke, hamburg and now in cologne). not that the matches are sold out but maybe 35.000 instead of 25.000.

there are also plans to cover the third tier (maybe with ads) so that a smaller stadium with 44.000 will be "created".


jonam, http://www.schwatzgelb.com

 

That's what MLS does in the big American football stadiums.

Once Allianz is completed, Bayern will become even bigger (and even more competitive in Europe), and 1860 will become more competititve in the BL (maby Lauth and Schroth can make it to Europe).

 

i found this on http://www.stadionwelt.de
explains why 1860 and bayern share a stadium and why the stadium is owned by both clubs. not the complete story as it is far longer and more complex but a quite good overview.


question:
Hi. I want to know why the two clubs agreed to build a joint stadium? What do 1860 and Bayern gain by doing this arrangement, as surely Bayern could have funded the stadium themselves or with another company? Is there a waiting list for Bayern tickets? If so, how many? I don't know of any precedent for this. Usually in a groundshare, one club owns the ground and the other one rents it. Another way is if a municipality owns the stadium, like you see in Milan and Rome. A third way would be if another private party owns the stadium and two clubs rent it. That's what happened after Crystal Palace lost ownership of Selhurst Park when the club went into administration(bankruptcy-equivalent in Britain) while Wimbledon continued to rent it. But I've never heard of a case where two private entities are co-owners of a sporting ground in football. I would appreciate it if someone would bring up another occasion of this happening.

answer:
It's such a long story - impossible to tell you all the weird details. But here the mail reason:
politics!
The city of Munich as the owner of the Olympic Stadium was strictly in opposition to any plans of Bayern Munich FC to build an own Stadium (what was planned since the mid-90s). Easy to understand, because only football games of Bayern FC could guarantee a regular and reliable income for the "Olympic Park Ltd.", an income that was necessary to refinance the conservation of this lovely sport (not football) occasion (e.g. the total renovation of the spectacular roof in 1999).
Even when Germany was elected to be host of the FIFA WC 2006, the city still planned to stage the games in the Olympic Stadium. As both football clubs were involved in the city's plans to change the stadium into a more modern arena (including the removal of the running tracks), this can be seen as the starting point of the stadium coalition between 1860 and Bayern FC. The rebuilding of the Olympic Stadium should be payed by the city and refinanced with an increased annual rent, so it was important to find comprmises between the city of Munich and the interests of both clubs. So the chairmen started to meet and discuss the needs of their clubs, but when they just had found their compromise, suddenly and unexpectedly the rebuilding of the Olympic Stadium became impossible for legal reasons (the former stadium architect's veto). Now, the chairmen did not hesitate to transfer these compromises to a New Stadium Project.
Also the town that had always tried to prevent the clubs from leaving the Olympic Stadium, suddenly had to agree in the construction of a new common stadium because it was obvious tha an unrenovated Olympic Stadium would never host World Cup games, and renovation was impossible without the permission of the stadiums architect. So, the quick construction (in time for 2006) of a new ground was the only chance for the clubs to leave the Olympic Stadium soon and for the town to gain World Cup games.

(The interest of several 1860-fans to rebuilt their traditional home ground "Gruenwalder Strasse" was never supported by the clubs Chairman who preferred the higher ticketing income in an half-empty big stadium and wanted to avoid the costs for the inevitable renovation of the old ground, what is understandable but IMHO really a pity.)

Also under economic aspects, the cooperation should pay both both sides. Executive boxes can only be rented for all games what means that any company that wants to present Bayern games to their clients and partners, has to pay for the 17 1860-games, too. This raises the price and guarantees a regular income also for 1860. The stadium will host at least 34 League matches per year, what decreases the refinancing costs per game extremely. So both clubs should benefit from their coalition.

It's the emotional aspect what makes the whole agreement unpopular especially for a part of the 1860-fans. Some others and the vast majority of the Bayern-supporters agree with this symbiosis.
I personally don't, but maybe I'm just to romantic...



jonam, http://www.schwatzgelb.com

 

I'm glad they didn't reconstruct the Olympic stadium. Although not suitable for football as it is, it still has a unique architecture and an important history.

So the next question is, without Bayern and 1860 games, what will happen to the old stadium now?

 

Probably it will still host Track and field, concerts etc. (at least that is what they are doing there now, when they don't play football).

 

Does that mean Allianz Arena won't be big enough to fit a track?

 

no, of course not. it's a 100% football stadium.




jonam, http://www.schwatzgelb.com

 

olympiastadion..

is still a fair place to catch a match, but the biggest thing you notice is the distance the fans are away from the pitch. It doesn't prevent the local fans from making the atmosphere really fun, but it is not the type of atmosphere that you would find say at a Borussia Dortmund match. Also, late in the afternoon when the sun is setting, the entire side that faces west is brutalized by the sun setting to the west.

The current construction site of Allianz is amazing with what looks like 50 sky cranes busily putting up the pieces. Eventually, it is supposed to look like some kind of UFO when completed.

 

this will become a real monster when completed. although it has only 66.000 seats (compared to 67.000 in dortmund) it will be much larger by means of volume.





jonam, http://www.schwatzgelb.com

 

final version..

http://tsv1860.de/?id=167

 

Being that it'll be just outside the city (I think), transportation is going to be an issue for people to get to the stadium. I would think it'll be easier for Bayern fans to get to the Allianz because many of them are from outside Bavaria. It may be different for 1860 fans going from the city out every other week.

I read that the stadium will be illuminated in a certain color, depending on who is playing at home. What happens during the derby, then? I could imagine them trying to light it half-red, half-blue.

 

getting to allianz match..

since parking at olympiastation is dreadful, many of the people that come to 1860 and bayern matches at olympiastadion take the u-bahn, bike or walk. walking to allianz doesn't seem reasonable as it is north of the city just north of the a9 / a99 autobahn intersection. biking is possible, but about 30 minute ride for people that live on the north of the city. u-bahn might be the most effective mode as they are digging a new u-bahn station at the stadium site. for travelers coming from the north, it should be a breeze to get to the games as opposed to fighting mittlerer-ring traffic on the way to olympiastadion.

I had not heard about the colors changing depending on who is playing. since there is home & home matches, perhaps they will chose red for one game and blue for the other. either way, it appears that the stadium will be a classic place to watch a football match.

 

for bayern matches it will be red, 1860 blue and for other matches white.


jonam, http://www.schwatzgelb.com

 

So I'm assuming that derby matches would be played with the white lights, instead of the lights of the "home" team?

 

what he said ( i think)

 

Cool! I think this will be the best of the German grounds. It should be, since it's going to be the new home for Bayern. Who the hell are 1860? LOL

 

die echte Münchener!