All-Time World Cup squads(realistic)

Discussion in 'Soccer History' started by Excape Goat, Jun 3, 2013.

  1. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    I was not sure of that! But the following is a common best Riverplate team ALL TIME whic was built around Moreno (playmaker) and Pedernera as CF (more like a false 9) with Labruna swapping in scoring

    Basic formation:

    -----------------------------CARRIZO----------------------------------
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ------------YACONO--------------------------FERREYRA-------------
    -------------------------------VAGHI-----------------------------------
    ---------------------RODOLFI-------RAMOS--------------------------
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ----------------MORENO---------------LABRUNA---------------------
    ----MUNOZ---------------PEDERNERA-----------------LOUSTAU---

    ***

    ABOUT THIS TEAM

    La Máquina which means "The Machine" in Spanish is the nickname given to the Club Atlético River Plate team in the early 1940s. They played beautiful attacking football. They are often considered as the predecessor of Hollands total football in the 1970s. They won 4 Argentinian League titles in the 1940s. Many people considered them to be one of the greatest club side in history.

    The five forwards on the team were Juan Carlos Muñoz, José Manuel Moreno, Adolfo Pedernera, Angel Labruna and Felix Loustau). The usual lineup was Moreno on the right, Pedernera as the withdrawn centreforward, Labruna and Lostau on the left, and Munoz as the outside right. Alfredo Di Stefano joined the team in the mid 1940's. He was considered to be an understudy to José Manuel Moreno.
     
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  2. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
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  3. Excape Goat

    Excape Goat Member+

    Mar 18, 1999
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    England
    GK: Shilton, Banks
    DF: Moore, Wright, Franklin, Campbell, Armfield, Neal, Hapgood, Ashley Cole.
    MF: Edwards, Robson, Gerrard, Hoddle.
    Winger: Bastin, Matthews, Finney.
    FW: Dean, Greaves, Shearer, Lineker, Charlton.

    Backup: Keegan, Gazza, Lawton, Lofthouse, Hughes, Haynes, Beckham, Adams.

    I am going with 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1(with Charlton as SS). This is very British formation.
    -- Banks and Shilton are about the same level.
    -- Hoddle was selected for tactical reasons. He offered something with his playing style. Gazza was considered, but he could become a distraction.
    -- After Robson, there ain't too many good box-to-box midfielders. Gerrard was selected because he could play in a more advance role and be Charlton's backup.
    -- No backup rightwing was chosen because Finney would be the backup ringwing. If Matthews got injuried, Finney would move to the right.
    -- I will start with Charlton and a targetman upfront. Greaves was locked for the secondary striker backup. I have a hard time deciding on the targetmen. In the end, I took Dean and Shearer. I was considering Lawton and Lofthouse.
    -- The 22nd men was between Keegan, Lineker and a defensive midfielder. Wilkins, Ball or Ince were considered as a backup to Edwards, but none of them were that good. So I took a star forward. I chose Lineker based on his accomplishment for England.

    [​IMG]
    Use this11.com for tactics for football
     
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  4. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    GK: Fillol, Carrizo, Goycoechea
    DF: Zanetti, Perfumo, Passarella, Marzolini, Ayala, Galvan, Sorin
    MF: Redondo, Rossi, DiStefano, Maradona, Rattin, Ardiles, Bochini, Sivori
    FW: Pedernera, Moreno, Messi, Kempes, Maschio
     
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  5. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Galvan and Goicoechea (even as PK saver) has no business in an Argentine All-Stars squad
     
  6. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina

    Sensini can replace Galvan, but Goyco, with one WC final, two Copa Americas and one Confed Cup is a legend for the NT.
     
  7. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    He excelled only as PK saver.
    As a goalkeeper he was a regular to good one, imho. But a lucky one, to collect some medals in a poor era for argentine's keepers.
     
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  8. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    So your argument is based on the credentials with the NT, I see... But then why would Sensini, Ayala, Messi, Zanetti or Sorin make your list? When were they able to achieve resounding victories at the men's level?

    There were players in the past that played fewer games, but were able to seize moments and lead their teams to historical triumphs. [I can list plenty]. Then you have cases like Di Stefano or Bochini that basically road the coat-tails of their teammates when they succeeded: both substitutes and nonfactors in the decisive latter stages. Why are they in your list, then?


    There were better GK's in Argentina's history, but few had such an impact for the NT as he did. 5 times he led Argentina in PK shootouts through decisive stages to obtain medals for his country.
     
  9. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    No, my selection is based on both NT and club careers, but to me Goycoechea does enough with the NT to merit a place as the third keeper, despite not having such an illustrious career at club level.

    Zanetti's career is legendary at club level and strong enough with the NT, let's not forget his goal against England among many moments, to be on the squad. Sorin's case is similar to Goyco, he didn't had the career of Zanetti at club but was immense with the NT. He was the best captain for Argentina since Maradona himself. Him and Ayala didn't win much indeed but still got a Youth WC and Argentina's first ever Olympic gold in soccer.

    I wouldn't say Bochini rode the coattails at WCV86, he just was not featured and he himself admitted "I don't feel like a workd champion". At that point Bilardo had built the team with hard-working midfielders who could run in service to Maradona, so Bocha was not going to feature much in the plans. However, I'll never understand why Menotti excluded him for WCs 78 and 82, when he was obviously better than some of his choices in midfield such as Alonso, Valencia and Ortiz.

    I thought DiSterfano starred for Argentina at CA57? Why do you say he rode the coattails of his team mates?
     
  10. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    If i remember well, the likes of Roma or Gatti were also specialist saving PKs as a plus to their great skillset for a keeper.
    But they hadn't the luck to show themselves in a definition for his NT.

    Don't misunderstood me, i'm refering to be lucky, in the sense, you're in the right place at right moment to show yourself.

    Of course, i rated Goyco as the best PK saver ever. But not enough to merit inclusion in an AT squad, imho.
     
  11. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    He featured in the 1947 event, but was used on a few occasions as a substitute. It was a time when Argentina was rich in talent and it was said that they could have fielded three starting lineups. At that point Argentina had many players that were well established and they were champs on multiple occasions in the 1940s. Di Stefano was fighting for a spot among the starters with Rene Pontoni. He did not feature in the first match where Argentina won 6-0 vs Paraguay. In the following game he came on late as a sub vs Bolivia when Argentina were already ahead 4-0. He then made 4 successive starting roles in the next matches and excelled in some of them, but in the last two encounters he was subbed off vs Ecuador and found himself on the bench for the final vs Uruguay before coming on late again.

    The press praised Moreno, Mendez, “Pippo” Rossi and Pontoni for their displays in the final stages of the competition. Di Stefano had his moments, particularly during the middle of the event, but was a nonfactor in the last stages. He was viewed as an excellent "executioner" when called upon and gained the nickname of "blonde arrow" but he was no more pivotal than Boye or Loustau. He wasn’t the leader of this team, where seniority reigned supreme. The young Di Stefano was a pupil under the command of his masters.

    This team was virtually a machine in South America, scoring 28 goals and conceding only 4 in 7 matches. It ranks up there with the best of Argentinian teams.
     
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  12. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I'm sure you've been having a think about the Italian squad Excape Goat. They would surely have one of if not the most rounded squad in terms of depth of quality options all over the pitch. Deciding on the coach/manager and what his 'realistic' starting line-up might be would be the difficult part, but here is my sketch of a possible squad (numbers 1-11 very unlikely to be the 11 chosen starters, though a number of them surely would be in the 11):

    1 - Gianluigi Buffon
    2 - Giussepe Bergomi
    3 - Paolo Maldini
    4 - Gaetano Scirea
    5 - Alessandro Nesta
    6 - Franco Baresi
    7 - Bruno Conti
    8 - Giussepe Meazza
    9 - Silvio Piola
    10 - Valentino Mazzola
    11 - Gianni Rivera
    12 - Gianluca Zambrotta
    13 - Giacinto Facchetti
    14 - Fabio Cannavaro
    15 - Marco Tardelli
    16 - Giacomo Bulgarelli
    17 - Giampiero Boniperti
    18 - Roberto Baggio
    19 - Paolo Rossi
    20 - Francesco Totti
    21 - Dino Zoff
    22 - Giancarlo Antognoni

    Reserves:
    Gianpiero Combi
    Pietro Vierchowod
    Antonio Cabrini
    Giovanni Trappatoni
    Andrea Pirlo
    Giussepe Giannini
    Roberto Donadoni
    Sandro Mazzola
    Alessandro Del Piero
    Giussepe Signori
    Luigi Riva
    Gianluca Vialli
     
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  13. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Position codes in brackets above now - LF is left forward.

    Using the squad selected perhaps these are 'realistic' options that the chosen coach/manager might favour:
    ----------------------------------------------Buffon----------------------------------------------

    Bergomi--------------------Nesta------------------------------Baresi-------------------Maldini

    ----------------------------------------------Tardelli-------------------------------------------------
    --------------------Bulgarelli/Antognoni--------------V.Mazzola/Rivera-------------------------
    -----Conti/Boniperti-----------------------------------------------Baggio/Meazza---------------
    ----------------------------------------------Piola/Rossi----------------------------------------------

    or

    ----------------------------------------------Zoff----------------------------------------------------
    ---------------------------------------------Scirea--------------------------------------------------
    -----------------------------Nesta/Baresi-------------Baresi/Maldini---------------------------
    Zambrotta------------------------------------------------------------------------Maldini/Facchetti
    ---------------------------------------------Tardelli------------------------------------------------
    -------------------------------Rivera------------------V.Mazzola----------------------------------

    ------------------------------Piola/Rossi------------Baggio/Meazza-----------------------------

    I'd be tempted of course to put in more of the creative and attacking players in one side but most likely an Italian Coach would only try that as a last resort in the final 10 minutes of a game. Also, I'm not sure how likely it might be that they would try a Scirea and Baresi partnership in a back 4, perhaps with Scirea as sweeper or perhaps in a flat 4 - I felt that Nesta might be more likely to play as shown above if a back 4 was chosen.
     
  14. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I also let Excape Goat know the choices in the All-Time World Cup book I have for Italy (and previously England, Brazil and Argentina though in those cases after he had selected his squads; I had a go at an England squad and reserve squad by PM too).

    This is also an interesting video on the subject of an All-Time Italian XI, with Carlo Cudicini. I favour the journalists choices overall IIRC, but Carlo has gone overboard with the catenaccio idea I think (still interesting choices though from the perspective of an Italian youngster turned professional goalkeeper):
     
  15. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    It's not clear which exact XI Cudicini chose I notice now; whether he decided to have Causio and Conti or keep one of Valentino or Sandro Mazzola, or Rivera from the Football Italia XI (I think that was the programme). In case the video gets removed the 10 players in his team for sure are Zoff, Gentile, Baresi, Maldini, Facchetti, Tardelli, Benetti, Causio, Meazza, Piola/Riva (he said one of these two at the end rather than both). The Football Italia selection was a 4-4-2 with two attacking midfielders wide so perhaps more of a diamond in reality and had the same defence plus those 3 AM's with Tardelli in midfield and Baggio with Meazza in attack. They discussed a number of other players, including Scirea and Cabrini who Cudicini said he would put on the bench.

    A couple more players who could be in the discussion I suppose, as possible reserves, might be Picchi as sweeper and Vieri as striker.
     
  16. Area 51

    Area 51 Member+

    Sep 5, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    This is fun, I'll add Portugal just for the hell of it

    -------------------------Any goalie--------------------------------
    --------------Vicente-----------------Carvalho--------------------
    Miguel-------------------------------------------------------Coentrao
    -------------------Coluna-------------Deco-----------------------------
    Figo---------------------Rui Costa--------------------------Ronaldo
    ---------------------------Eusebio-------------------------------------------

    Subs:
    Germano
    Pepe
    Jose augusto
    Simoes
    Torres
    Maniche
    Paulo Sousa

    *Any Gk- Baia, Ricardo, Eduardo were all a bit....unsteady despite moments of brilliance
    ** Vicente= the one defender Pele said was the hardest he ever played against. We need that type of bully ball breaking bastard in the backline to add steel to a relatively soft squad
    ***Coluna: one of the best midfielders of his generation, beast. Widely respected and championed by those who remember or truly know the history of the game
     
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  17. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I forgot to mention Gianfranco Zola. Personally I would have him at least among the stand-by players (though that position/role is overloaded already). I don't think I subconsiously decided the Italian coach would leave him out :laugh:.

    Another name that might be the opposite case (wouldn't quite come into contention for my selection probably but might be chosen by a Coach) could be Rossi's partner from '78 Roberto Bettega who did get some votes in IFFHS' Century Elections (9 points to be precise which isn't very many compared to Rivera and Meazza who got around 100 each in the European election and the subsequent World election they qualified for too). Interestingly Valentino Mazzola didn't get any points in those elections, but he has a fanbase which calls him Italy's best ever player I believe.
     
  18. Excape Goat

    Excape Goat Member+

    Mar 18, 1999
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    GK: Buffon, Zoff
    DF: Barsei, Maldini, Scirea, Nesta, Cannavaro, Gentile, Bergomi, Facchetti
    MF: Pirlo, Tardelli, Antognoni, Conti, V.Mazzola, S.Mazzola, Riveria, Corso
    FW: Baggio, Meazza, Piola, Riva.

    I highlighted the players who were different from @PDG1978's team. I don't have the lineup and formation.
     
  19. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Like PDG his effort but an Italy team without Riva is a bit odd. Should be at least on the bench, IMO
     
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  20. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Cool. So you left out from my list Zambrotta, Bulgarelli, Boniperti, Totti and Rossi and agreed with the rest.
    The debates would be between then:

    Zambrotta and Gentile (as I just said by PM when you mentioned Zona Mista, Gentile is a better option than Zambrotta as defensive right back/extra centre back of course).

    Bulgarelli and Pirlo (you didn't highlight Pirlo, but he was also on my stand-by list - I felt maybe Bulgarelli was more multi-functional and with the other Italian playmakers further up the pitch perhaps Pirlo would be a reserve).

    Boniperti and Corso (versatile Boniperti vs specialist left winger/midfielder Corso).

    Totti and Sandro Mazzola (I nearly included both but felt Antognoni could be a more conventional midfield player than Sandro would be comfortable with if necessary; Totti was a bit of an enigma but could be great as a central support forward or AM at his best - Sandro Mazzola could be preferred though I guess).

    Rossi and Riva - somehow I feel Rossi was a better goal poacher although the overall International records of the players favour Riva in terms of GPG; conversely Riva played wide more often and/or with more success perhaps (?) but actually Rossi's interplay with team-mates was probably better I feel. Rossi is more similar to Piola probably, but Riva would give a different option and would be a left footer too.

    Anyway, your choices of course Excape Goat (like with the England team which you only altered in a minor way after my PM I think - just tweeking the areas where you were unsure). Maybe others will have views on these different options though....
     
  21. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Excape Goat mentioned he was discussing the Zona Mista formation with La Maquina in his PM:
    http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...qOqey0QWs94HACg&sqi=2&ved=0CDgQ9QEwAw&dur=619
    That's definately a stereotypical and good option for this exercise - maybe my top formation was slightly more towards the 1982 WC formation. Personally with a free reign I might consider a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-2-1 type formation too, but it'd still be difficult to choose the players I think and perhaps the Zona Mista formation and maybe the wing-back/sweeper formation as alternative are sensible choices?
     
  22. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Actually my top formation (if right back tucks in to be a 2nd centre back) and La Maquina's 'B' Draft formation and the 1982 WC formation and Zona Mista as per Juventus in Platini's time are all quite similar I think. Maybe even Zona Mista was used in 1982? I seem to think/recall more than one formation was used in that WC and that in at least one game they played 5 defenders :confused:
     
  23. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Coming back to this briefly, I think I changed my mind very slightly (curiously introducing some players I'd be more aware of in childhood, over others I'd be slightly less so)!

    With Zona Mista in mind, Alessandro Costacurta takes Bergomi's place I think for me (he could also play well as conventional right back and did a bit early in his career not just at the end).

    I'd also bring Donadoni in for Conti I think actually and make him first choice for wide midfield, with also in mind the fact that he could (and did, like in Italia 90) play in the kind of roaming attacking midfield role in this kind of system.

    Zola would certainly be among my reserves - let's say for Signori if we were sticking to the formations I discussed for this exercise (well the first amended to more of a proper Zona Mista, and the second as shown a wing-back+sweeper system).

    I'd be questioning whether I'd definitely keep Antognoni in the squad over Giannini, but perhaps yes I would. On the other hand, maybe I'd put Sandro Mazzola in for Totti, given his versatility re: midfield and supporting attacking positions, and his mobility which would be useful in the kinds of role he could be playing.
     
  24. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    What I didn't mention in that post is that probably for the Zona Mista system I'd be thinking of including Scirea as the libero, and therefore Baresi as centre-back with Costacurta (who edges out Ciro Ferrara for this new squad place/role I suppose) as the hybrid right back/centre back.

    I guess if in theory Scirea was injured, then although Baresi could then go back into that role, it could also be that Costacurta would be placed as sweeper even with Nesta then coming in to cover the right-side defensive role.

    It's possible I suppose I could keep in the young version of Bergomi, with a view to playing him in the wing-back system and covering the right side role in Zona Mista, but I think I'd keep Zambrotta in.

    Probably my first choice line-up would include Bulgarelli and Rivera in midfield, plus Baggio and Rossi as the attackers (though it's hard to get a great idea about just how good Meazza and Piola were).
     
  25. tony-soprano37

    Dec 5, 2008
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    For Holland starting 11 and formation is
    3-4-3.

    Goal : jan van Beveren
    Rightback : suurbier
    Central defender : Israël
    Leftback : Krol
    DM : Rijkaard
    LM : van hangen
    RM : neeskens
    AM : Cruyff
    LW : Rensenbrink
    Striker : van basten
    RW : Gullit

    This team is balanced and realistic and contains 7 players (Krol, Rijkaard, van Hanegem, neeskens, Cruyff, van basten and Gullit) who are worldwide top 10 players (in their position).
    Team Will play Total football so filled with players who can play multiple positions.
    Gullit chosen as RW because being very versatile.
    Same reason Rensenbrink as LW. He liked to also play at nr. 10 position and Cruyff liked to drift to the left so they can change many times.
    With van Hanegem, Rijkaard and Neeskens completing the midfield this midfield had everything. Technique, toughness, intelligence.

    Reserve.
    van der sar
    F de boer
    Bergkamp
    Wilkes
    Keizer
    Seedorf
    Wouters
     
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