All-Time World Cup game - Discussion, rules, squads, info

I would say that you could run the game with your FM database, but then to be fair the values would be decided by you lol (although if like before, I'd be doing my best to make it equally by me...I'll claim due to enthusiasm not ulterior motive though!).

 

Speaking for myself I voted 2-1 Argentina and didn't just 'vote by names' mate, and I guess others feel similar.

But you have 3 other teams left, so please let's not fall out about it or ridicule my game I've spent time on like you did with the FM Draft indeed.

Thanks.

 

Ok mate, yeah no problem at all.

I hope I haven't upset poet (or let him verge on doing it to me). Let's just get back to taking everything in a light hearted way I think. I do apologise to poet though if my attempts to do that with calling certain things said by PM (not just by him) 'propaganda' was taken the wrong way.

If he's just adamant that Spain would win such a match then fair enough I guess, but hopefully if he thinks about it he'll realise everyone who voted was surely just envisioning what they think might happen in such a match (as if predicting a real one - let's be fair none of us will get an extremely high percentage of predictions correct with real life matches).

I didn't see a better way to decide things than have us all vote (as you did msioux with the 1950 version), but yeah the aim of the game was for it to be fun for all of us.

I'm happy to apologise to poet for anything that annoyed him though if he's happy to accept the apology.

 

This post was absolutely meant to be in good nature by the way.

I hope it didn't read otherwise.

I could have just ignored poet's previous comment.

But I wanted to respond in a positive way. Maybe I didn't make the best job of it though, and that is why he said "What would be the point of that, lol?".

Of course a thread could be opened at a later time discussing whether Tiki Taka could restrict great players such an extent as he suggested etc, and whether the best ploy against it is defensive midfielders, good counter attackers, quick players, players who are great on the ball themselves, a mixture etc etc. But I think poet should accept more of us thought Argentina might win, in a close match, than any other scenario, in that particular match, even if he strongly disagrees. I would say though that 'names' don't count for nothing because what the 'names' are are great players...but yes I didn't disregard other dynamics etc just because I saw the big names in msioux's line-up.

I'll leave it there now, and genuinely am not being sarcastic, but just explaining where I'm coming from. As organiser I prefer not to get involved in arguments obviously! And I'll say again I don't want to upset you poet so if you can say in efffect 'it's all good' I'll really appreciate it!

 

Yeah, I guess I feel similar - players who will not get rushed into giving the ball away when being pressed, and also players who can counter attack really well.

But I don't want to say poet is wrong or something in his ideas - just that we have to go by the 'democratic' vote (only one vote for a Spanish win in normal time came by the way, as well as one for a Spanish win on penalties).

Another clarification (just in case necessary) - my attempted humorous headline of 'Taka That' was also no jibe at poetgooner but just my idea of what a headline might look like after such a match. Kudos to poet though for bringing our attention to that breakyourownnews website himself during the FM Draft anyway (and his much more funny headlines about Hidalgo doping the team of me and Puck, and Pele just being bought for shirt sales etc!).

And final clarification/confirmation that I did vote for some wins for poetgooner teams this round (I'm not generally revealing votes but I'll make an exception): I voted (against my own nationality) for one normal time win for one of his teams, and voted (actually against my inclination going with the team with a more defensive midfield as it turns out!) for an extra time win for another one. Finally I voted for an extra-time loss for his other team, playing against Brazil-A. I don't want to hint too much at how voting is going (even with only you msioux yet to vote other than poet) but it seems very feasible poet will have one or more teams left after this round certainly at the moment.

I did try to apologise to him about the 'propaganda' comment and didn't get a reply, so maybe we are just at crossed wires here! I also didn't get much sleep last night so I'm probably feeling a bit more irritable myself than I should lol! Sorry if so!

 

All 3 of poet's other teams make it actually!

I hope thebigman is himself not too upset (after losing France-B) that Brazil-A and Pele have departed the competition!! That's the one I'd said I'd not voted for a poetgooner win in (other than the Spain game) of course, but 3 people did vote for a British Isles-B win within 90 minutes (1 for a game going to penalties, only 1 for a win for Brazil in normal time). So poet's tactics must have been vindicated in that one, with the marking of Garrincha, Socrates etc!

I'll see what other details I'll be ok to reveal in a bit, if anything.

 

Basically I can confirm the scores in the other games poetgooner's teams were playing in (shown below - Italy-B were certainly close to taking it to extra-time too by the way but as shown they are deemed not to quite manage to score), plus Gordon Banks having another impressive day against Pele and co. lol (this time on the winning team though), and there being one game that is still in the balance before poetgooner's vote (and perhaps even after it - if we have to we will vote on a penalty shoot-out over 24 hours).

Italy-B 0 Argentina-B 1
British Isles-A 1 Benelux-B 2
British Isles-B 2 Brazil-A 1
(all finished in normal time, and it is possible all 8 games will do so even, even though there have been a scattering of votes for extra-time and even penalty kick scenarios in various different games).

 

I'll just round off tonight with summarising scorers/assisters/MOTM awards for each of the 4 games already decided.

Then I'll come back to things probably late afternoon tomorrow, and obviously if poetgooner has sent a vote I'll incorporate that too for the other games.

I had been trying to get results announced with part of the weekends left, since poet himself said he'd been busy and the weekends were when he could concentrate on this the most. But if I can't quite do that tomorrow maybe the next deadline will even be a bit longer (I'll try to pick appropriate dates to make it easier for people where possible, as well as for myself possibly, but I know we don't want to drag things on too long of course).

Italy-B 0 Argentina-B 1
(Kempes 75: assist Messi; MOTM Messi)

British Isles-B 1 Benelux-B 2
(Van Basten 38, 77: assists Robben and Bergkamp, Greaves 52: assist Best; MOTM Van Basten)

Argentina-A 2 Spain 1
(Raul 31: assist Xavi, Batistuta 41, Di Stefano 70: assists Maradona twice; MOTM Di Stefano)

British Isles-B 2 Brazil-A 1
(Charlton 23, Finney 85: assists Law and Moore, Pele 31: assist Tostao: MOTM Banks)

 

Sorry for over-reacting yesterday. Honestly I physically felt 'wired' or whatever the term is with a sudden UK heat increase and lack of sleep etc, so it probably wasn't the best day to read what you had to say (whether you would feel you could have been a bit more tactful in one or two comments also I don't know but no worries now anyway and thanks for not letting it interrupt your participation).

I understand what you mean, in that you want to be able to give the arguments about why your team would win etc. I suppose my method was to have us all be more subtle about it (even with 'censorship' on the line-ups thread by me in effect if necessary, but as I said any comments as long as not outright offensive or something to a drafter as opposed to his players lol, would be welcome on this thread as pre-match manager mind games or whatever). So I was prepared to include tactical details like as you can see "play crosses in the air", "double up on their full-backs" etc and have the voters just assess those plans without seeing a kind of essay about the reasoning behind them. I suppose I was thinking we all know the players, we all know football, we can make our own minds up without influence...if that makes sense. And I didn't want everything to be decided by who made the best arguments, or who trashed the opposition team the most convincingly or something. Plus, trying to get things done in a short time frame doesn't leave much time to write a lot anyway, so I wanted to keep it all brief so that we were all on the same page and nobody really gained an advantage purely from writing more words for example. I suppose I also saw it as the teams against the teams (with us as selectors, and yes providing general tactical guidelines as to how the teams will play) rather than particularly a competition between us (hence I let you have 4 seeded teams of course, as it seemed best and appropriate to give people teams they were enthusiastic about and comfortable that they knew enough about).

As for disagreeing with votes, I can understand it when we become invested in our selections, and truly believe "no, that match would go more in my team's favour than this!". I think I shouldn't have announced the Spain result on it's own in hindsight, and not with the headline I did, because it didn't do anything to calm such feelings you might have. We have to go with the majority vote though of course, and not allow us to vote in matches our teams play in. So for example my votes wouldn't have put thebigman's France-B and Brazil-A teams out at this stage, but the majority vote did so they are out.

I know that in Sheep Drafts etc we all spend a bit more time on tactics, but I felt making so many selections each that we should keep it relatively minimal here, and I took the decision to try to keep what I was calling 'propaganda' (many real managers probably do similar though!) out of the line-ups thread, but I suppose I could just have copied and pasted what was sent to me in full....but it's too late to change now I think.

Thanks for your votes anyway, and I can see that you did spend time analysing the games and finding reasons to vote one way or another, so kudos on putting that thought into it. I won't publish your post here without permission, but you voted for wins for all the teams that make it through, and confirmed the final QF qualifier with one of the votes.

So I can announce now that these teams have also made it through (I'll work out the final scores before long):
Benelux-A
Germany-B
France-A
Brazil-B

And the Quarter Final fixture list will be this (as a heads up to those, and especially you poet with 3 teams left and possibly being busy at work but less so at the weekend, still with teams to pick):
Benelux-A vs Benelux-B (La-Maquina vs poet)
Argentina-B vs Argentina-A (poet vs msioux)
British Isles-B vs France-A (poet vs La-Maquina)
Germany-B vs Brazil-B (Peru FC vs Peru FC)

So we have one all Benelux clash, one all Argentina clash, and one all Peru (FC) clash!

Many thanks to thebigman, Titanlux and Excape Goat for taking part, and making the game possible, enjoyable etc, and providing votes and great team selections. I hope like me that you'll continue to give votes and follow the thread until the end.

 

I still need to look back through various PM messages to determine the scorers etc, but the consensus confirms these as the other Round of 16 final scores:

Benelux-A 3 Rest of South America-A 1
Germany-B 2 Portugal 1
Germany-A 1 France-A 2
Brazil-B 1 Italy-A 0

 

I have been (for my own teams, and also for other people's teams sometimes if I did the drawing after their input) trying to indicate some tactical details using the arrows of course. But yeah I was aiming for a minimalistic approach from us all regarding tactics, without wanting to prohibit them or not mention pure tactical details.


But on the subject of banter, and mind games, apparently this exchange just took place on PDG Radio:
Karl-Heinz Rummenigge: "We know exactly how the Brazilians will play against us, their starting line-up and even their subs and when they will use them!"
Paulo Roberto Falcao: "Yeah? Well we know exactly the same details about your team!"
KHR: "Fine, if you think so. See you on the pitch."
Falcao: "Yeah, if you're in the team Herr Rummenigge (winks)"

 

Benelux-A 3 Rest of South America-A 1
(Rensenbrink 35, Van Nistelrooy 62, Gullit 84: assists Gullit, Cruyff 2; Spencer 66: assist Arce: MOTM Gullit)

Germany-B 2 Portugal 1
(Klinsmann 39, Matthaus 78; assist on Klinsmann goal from Matthaus; Eusebio 56: assist Figo: MOTM Rummenigge)

Germany-A 1 France-A 2
(Fontaine 22, 76: assists Kopa, Platini; Muller 43: assist Walter: MOTM Tigana)

Brazil-B 1 Italy 0
(Ronaldo 62: assist Zico: MOTM Ronaldo)

 

Everyone is obviously free to send quarter final line-ups. The deadline will probably be Friday this time.

I'll take my team with the match reports on the other thread, but here is a different kind of update....

Goalscorers/assisters/MOTMs:

Goalscorers
7 - Just Fontaine
5 - Gerd Muller, Pele
4 - Gabriel Batistuta, Josef Bican, Eusebio, Jimmy Greaves, Marco van Basten
3 - Bobby Charlton, Alfredo Di Stefano, Lionel Messi, Silvio Piola, Ronaldo, Cristiano Ronaldo, Karl-Heinz Rummenigge, Hristo Stoichkov, David Villa
2 - Roberto Baggio, Johan Cruyff, Preben Elkjaer, Ruud Gullit, Gheorghe Hagi, Jari Litmanen, Diego Maradona, Lothar Matthaus, Giussepe Meazza, Pavel Nedved, Daniel Passarella, Michel Platini, Raul, Rob Rensenbrink, Arjen Robben, Andriy Shevchenko, Alberto Spencer, Zico
1 - Ademir, Adriano, Michael Ballack, Ferenc Bene, George Best, Oleg Blokhin, Alen Boksic, Andreas Brehme, Emilio Butragueno, Careca, Edinson Cavani, Jan Ceulemans, Teofilo Cubillas, Kenny Dalglish, Edgar Davids, Dixie Dean, Youri Djorkaeff, Dragan Dzajic, Arsenio Erico, Samuel Eto'o, Tom Finney, Diego Forlan, Enzo Francescoli, Garrincha, Ryan Giggs, Thierry Henry, Fernando Hierro, Andres Iniesta, Juan Joya, Mario Kempes, Jurgen Klinsmann, Sandor Kocsis, Ronald Koeman, Laszlo Kubala, Frank Lampard, Gzregorz Lato, Denis Law, Robert Lewandowski, Wlodzimierz Lubanski, Maicon, Valentino Mazzola, Thomas Muller, Gunnar Nordahl, Raimundo Orsi, Jean-Pierre Papin, Robert Pires, Pierino Prati, Ferenc Puskas, Helmut Rahn, Juan Roman Riquelme, Luigi Riva, Roberto Rivelino, Pedro Rocha, Romario, Ronaldinho, Paolo Rossi, Mohamed Salah, Hugo Sanchez, Gyorgy Sarosi, Uwe Seeler, Alan Shearer, Davor Suker, Lajos Tichy, Carlos Valderrama, Ruud van Nistelrooy, Robin van Persie, George Weah, Zinedine Zidane, Zizinho

Assisters (incl. pens/free-kicks won, but not deflections or secondary assists)
5 - Johan Cruyff, Diego Maradona
4 - Luis Figo, Michael Laudrup, Juan Schiaffino
3 - Kazimierz Deyna, Raymond Kopa, Stanley Matthews, Michel Platini, Matthias Sindelar, Zico
2 - Francisco Arce, Dennis Bergkamp, George Best, Oleg Blokhin, Paul Breitner, Kenny Dalglish, Alfredo Di Stefano, Garrincha, Francisco Gento, Ruud Gullit, Gheorghe Hagi, Lionel Messi, Bobby Moore, Ferenc Puskas, Arjen Robben, Tostao, Francesco Totti, Fritz Walter
1 - Osvaldo Ardiles, Jose Augusto, Michael Ballack, Bebeto, Franz Beckenbauer, David Beckham, Ferenc Bene, Dimitar Berbatov, Zvonimir Boban, Emilio Butragueno, Careca, Omar Corbatta, Teofilo Cubillas, Alessandro Del Piero, Didi, Youri Djorkaeff, Dragan Dzajic, Giacinto Facchetti, Paulo Roberto Falcao, Paul Gascoigne, Gerson, Josep Guardiola, Eden Hazard, Thierry Henry, Nandor Hidegkuti, Andres Iniesta, Jorginho, Mario Kempes, Sandor Kocsis, Jan Koller, Brian Laudrup, Denis Law, Pierre Littbarski, Lothar Matthaus, Michel, Jose Manuel Moreno, Gerd Muller, Pavel Nedved, Gunter Netzer, Ernst Ocwirk, Pele, Andrea Pirlo, Fernando Redondo, Rob Rensenbrink, Juan Roman Riquelme, Gianni Rivera, Dominique Rocheteau, Romario, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Paolo Rossi, Rui Costa, Karl-Heinz Rummenigge, Marcelo Salas, Clarence Seedorf, Uwe Seeler, Alan Shearer, Alexis Sanchez, David Silva, Omar Sivori, Wesley Sneijder, Socrates, Dragan Stojkovic, Jean Tigana, Yaya Toure, Patrick Vieira, Rudi Voller, George Weah, Faas Wilkes, Xavi, Zinedine Zidane, Zizinho, Gianfranco Zola

Man of the Match
3 - Alfredo Di Stefano
2 - Franco Baresi, George Best, Johan Cruyff, Lothar Matthaus, Lionel Messi
1 - Roberto Baggio, Gordon Banks, Franz Beckenbauer, Paul Breitner, Hector Chumpitaz, Teofilo Cubillas, Paulo Roberto Falcao, Luis Figo, Elias Figueroa, Tom Finney, Garrincha, Ruud Gullit, Gheorghe Hagi, Raymond Kopa, Ruud Krol, Michael Laudrup, Soren Lerby, Diego Maradona, Josef Masopust, Stanley Matthews, Bobby Moore, Thomas N'Kono, Wolfgang Overath, Daniel Passarella, Pele, Michel Platini, Frank Rijkaard, Arjen Robben, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Karl-Heinz Rummenigge, Dejan Savicevic, Juan Schiaffino, Gaetano Scirea, Albert Shesternyov, Jean Tigana, Yaya Toure, Marco van Basten, Patrick Vieira, David Villa, Xavi, Ricardo Zamora, Zico​

 

Everything has been updated on the other thread now, including confirmation for fixtures and deadlines for the Quarter Final games (on page 7):
https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/al...e-ups-results-updates-fixtures.2105346/page-6