All Time overrated Player´s

Maradona (i love him btw)

Cristiano Ronaldo overrated is funny to read. Imo he is top 3 all time, absolutely top 5 all time, and some people are making him top 10-15 xD I've seen that so much lately that I'm start thinking he is underated.

 

I think the only way someone can put Ronaldo only in the top 10-15 range instead of higher is if they put a very high weight on National Team performance. Cristiano has definitely not been a top 10-15 all time NT performer, and so if someone cares about that a lot more than they care about club football then they could perhaps get to a place where his club performances are only enough to get him to top 10-15 overall. Personally, I wouldn’t subscribe to that sort of thinking at all, since I don’t really think it makes sense to weigh much more highly the area for which we have a much smaller sample of games.

 

National is based where you are born, it's not imparcial. Otherwise Mbappe will be way better than Halaand already.
For me Champions league is higher tier of football, your merit and your hability will take you there, doesn't matter if you are Brasilian or Australian.

But world cup is my favourite competition, I enjoy it a lot.

Unluckly for Portugal, had a really bad manager, Fernando Santos is really bad manager, but Portugal is a lot corrupt, the domestic clubs want their players in the showcase, and Fernando is great doing what those corrupt white collars ask for. On Poland national team he was sacked in 6 games (almost in 1 game), he was around on Portugal national team since 2013.

But if you really analyse Cristiano on National team he won the first two trophies ever for Portugal and was finalist 2 times on Eurocup, that has to mean something I believe.
also he has a lot of decisive goals and did great games.

Don't get me wrong but 2 trophies and 1 lost final for the first ever for Portugal is a greater achievement in terms of difficulty than another World Cup for a country like Brasil or Argentina that are favourites almost everytime.

What would be bigger, Norway winning Euro or France winning a World Cup?

 

I don’t really disagree with any of this, but I think some people would. I think the argument would basically go that Cristiano has been on on elite club teams in an era of super teams, and then when he played for a team that wasn’t a super team he really wasn’t historically impressive. You could take that logic and squint a bit and get yourself to a conclusion that a historical player who had superior NT performances and put up worse club numbers but on a much less strong club team was better than Ronaldo. It’s not a conclusion I’d come to—and I think some of the people who come to that conclusion just want to think of reasons to rate historical players higher than current ones—but there’s I guess a narrow logical pathway to get there. Personally, I have Ronaldo knocking on the door of the top 5 (probably 6th), so I don’t subscribe to the arguments I’m describing but rather am more just recounting what I’ve seen other people argue.

 

Harry Kane

 

I don't agree at all. He has also proven to be good on the national team, still maintaining great statistics, reaching the finals three times and winning two trophies. He has consistently been part of top teams because he is one of the best ever. Where else should he have played? A fun fact is that Messi never won a single Champions League without Xavi and Iniesta. Additionally, Xavi and Iniesta were vital parts of the best national team ever, which won two Euros and one World Cup. But in this case, national team performance isn't so important, right?.And was exactly agains that super barcelona era, Cristiano Ronaldo was making history. It wasn't an easy task, and the presence of those "super teams" only made the Champions League even stronger. Despite the fact that he did not score in the ten knockout stage games in five World Cups, it doesn't diminish his achievements. For Portugal, this is just another record, as they reached the knockout stage five times in a row thanks to Cristiano; before him, the Portuguese national team was just a peanut with zero trophies and only 3 knockout stages since ever.

But I don't want to go off-topic; Cristiano is not overrated.

P.S.: I do think Messi is better than Cristiano, although I don't believe a comparison is necessary.

 

Cristiano Ronaldo is not overrated in his generation. In all time great list, he might be overrated if you place him in top 5 list.

 

I just think he’s been lucky to have been born with a fabulous, athletic physique and tremendous speed and decent skill ..

Plus he’s somehow avoided serious injuries.

 

add a rocket shot, and hyper jump to his "lucky" package. what an average player, so lucky. Can't believe he is so lucky that is the top scorer in several clubs and competitons and has so many records.

 

David Platt was vastly overrated imho

 

If cristiano is top 3 gerd muller is obviously top 1

 

David beckham too

 

He is an underrated footballer

 

Na … Becks was underrated if anything probably due to his celeb lifestyle .. countless hairstyles, his barmy wife etc

 

I love all the dumb posts created after the WC clearly aimed to try to diminish the accomplishments of one particular nation, that the haters are aiming at.

Just be honest about your bias and hate, and say what you really want to say. We are here for it and we can handle it.

I've seen dumb #st post about "Is Maradona overrated?" or comments here and there about Messi. Pleeease.

 

Ronaldo 2019-20 (2nd season with Juve) - 35 years old
Touches in penalty box - 6.7 per 90
Touches in attacking 3rd - 30.9 per 90
Goals 31
Assists 5
Appearances 46
90s 32.4
Effectiveness: 3.6 G + A / 100 touches in Final 3rd
Dispossessions (miscontrols, dispossessions, dribble losses): 4.26 per 90
Dispossession rate: 8.1 dispossessions per 100 touches
Total turnovers (including lost passes): 10.86 per 90
20.7 turnovers per 100 touches (21% possession turnover rate)

Messi 2019-20 - 33 years old
Touches in penalty box - 6.5 per 90
Touches in attacking 3rd - 43.8 per 90
Goals 25
Assists 21
90s 32
Effectiveness: 3.3 G + A / 100 touches in Final 3rd
Dispossessions (miscontrols, dispossessions, dribble losses): 7.13 per 90
Dispossession rate: 9.0 dispossessions per 100 touches
Total turnovers (including lost passes): 21.43 per 90
27.0 turnovers per 100 touches (27% possession turnover rate!!!!)

@carlito86 @Isaías Silva Serafim @OffTheBallMovement @Sexybeast

 

LOL, Ronaldo had 12 penalties that season.

Anyways, per-touch analysis is plainly biased against more possession-based systems and completely un-nuanced in relation to the exact danger of the position of those touches, but just FYI for everyone, in the years we have data for in European leagues (so no MLS or Saudi), if we take out penalties (both from the number of goals and the number of touches), we get Ronaldo with 2.348 non-pk G+A per 100 touches in the final third and Messi with 2.460 non-pk G+A per 100 touches in the final third. And, quite notably, if we instead used just touches in the penalty area, we’re looking at total stats in the data we have of: Ronaldo with 11.80 non-pk G+A per 100 touches in the penalty area and Messi with 20.22 non-pk G+A per 100 touches in the penalty area.

And, as another note: The numbers probably on dispossessions are false, since they are counting “unsuccessful take-ons” as dispossessions, when the stat used specifically says “Unsuccessful take-ons include attempts where the dribbler retained possession but was unable to get past the defender.”

 

Lev Yashin

 

Cute except Juventus was a possession-heavy team averaging 59% possession, Barcelona 66% in their respective leagues. Juventus was definitely not a counter-attacking team - so the systems are comparable.

Your penalty box calculation is dire nonsense. Besides 1 season (his last real season as a CF), Ronaldo and Messi have comparable penalty box touches in the seasons we have the actual numbers available.
Clearly the more effective player is Ronaldo.
Dispossession stat, I made an error which you pointed out. So inaccurate.

 

The penalty box calculation is not “dire nonsense.” The numbers I provided were entirely accurate. In the seasons we have data for, Ronaldo had 120 non-penalty G+A, and he has 1051 touches in the penalty box. 34 of those touches in the penalty box were penalties, so he had 1017 non-penalty touches. That comes out to 11.80 non-penalty G+A per 100 penalty-area touches. Meanwhile, in the seasons we have data for, Messi had 218 non-penalty G+A, and he has 1097 touches in the penalty box, but 19 of those touches were penalties, so he had 1078 non-penalty touches. That comes out to 20.22 non-penalty G+A per 100 penalty-area touches. My numbers were correct—Messi is simply way ahead.

Anyways, looking at per-touch data is a stupid way of measuring things, but the data we have has Messi ahead in this regard.

 

Why on earth would you normalize the data by penalty box touches, when goals come from anywhere in the final third. It's a completely illogical mess of a calculation.

 

Just like it is completely illogical to normalize by touches in the attacking third when some of those touches are right near the goal while some are really far away, and we know that one player has a substantially higher percent of those attacking-third touches in the penalty area. The whole exercise is stupid for a million reasons.

 

Goals and assists all come from the final third. Pretty logical. Post the Fbref data where you got the penalty box numbers and we can conclude if these are significantly different hint: they're not.

 

I don’t even know what you’re asking for. You are perfectly capable of looking at FBref yourself to verify the numbers I just provided in my last post. Furthermore, you can see clear as day from FBref that, in the data we have, a substantially higher percent of Ronaldo’s attacking-third touches were in the penalty area compared to Messi. So comparing G+A output per touch in the attacking third is obviously wildly biased against Messi for that reason (among other reasons—including playing in a more possession-based system). There’s no need to discuss further, since this is clear as day, but I’m sure you’ll thrash about in some way to try to say otherwise. I’m not very interested in it, and I think others can easily make up their minds on this.