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Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by La-Máquina, Nov 24, 2016.
So whatever happened with this draft vote?
Deadline was Dec.21st.
A few people had missing teams in their votes (gonna wait until the blanks are filled).
We'd do well to get this done before New Year lol
1st Steller 107 pts
2nd La-Máquina 96 pts
3rd babaorum 90 pts
4th Karloski 79 pts
5th Perú FC 74 pts
6th poetgooner 69 pts
7th socrates83 59 pts
8th Tom Stevens 55 pts
9th el cabezon 53 pts
10th Excape Goat 52 pts
11th thebigman 34 pts
12th PDG1978 28 pts
Oh, lol, if I was going for votes (and I guess I sort of was with the Neeskens and Tigana picks even if passing up on top players to get them puts it in doubt maybe!) then experiment failed!
If I was using so many formations maybe I'd have been better with a tournament scenario so at least I could select them for each match-up!
Having said that, apart from my own team, and my former team-mates (we seem to get better results together though bigman!) who I put up there among the final top 4 in the standings, the final results do look quite like my order (but I had Excape Goat a bit higher up too - at first glance that might be the other biggest difference). I gave La-Maquina the nod over Steller for first place though, even though I felt maybe Steller's attack might score more goals somehow.
Thanks for running the draft La-Maquina.
I'm happy with my ranking. That's what I expected, more or less. Congrats to Steller.
Stellar was obvious winner, La maquina a close second. I thought I'd be fighting it out with Babaurum for 3rd, but 4th is maybe about right. This was my top 5>
2) La Maquina
4) Tom Stevens
@PDG1978, I think what did your team in was it looked too narrow in all the formations ........at least that was my opinion when weighing up the strengths of each team.
Thanks - could be one reason yeah (although I don't mean to say I'd vote it low myself - but then again do any of us think that in a non-Sheep Draft, maybe some picks including the Carvalho one could cumulatively seem to have cost me too I don't know). Ceulemans and even young Shevchenko would be tasked with that the most I guess, and occasionally Tigana. Obviously Zidane can do great things from wide areas but not so much the surging runs down the wing of course.
Funny how there seems to be a consensus at the top this time in like I say a non Sheep Draft anyway. My top 5 hass the same teams at the top but just with you and thebigman added as I said. If you'd put Hagi and Boniek on the other sides I'd have voted you first (that's a joke lol - I guess you could have used the Magic Square yourself though with Boniek moving wide to both sides from a central attacking position even but I guess all in all you're maybe better off as it is - there were a few combinations that arguably could have switched sides I guess with Ocwirk/Rijkaard too and also your CB's - maybe that adds a nice bit of flexibility though).
Thank you everyone who voted for me!
Generally I'm satisfied with my squad despite my centerbacks have lack of speed and height.
My top 3 are La Maquina, Babaroum and PeruFC.
PDG1978, maybe you should had picked McGrain instead of Dalglish (with Sarosy on SS and Ferrara on CB).
Think my ranking is a bit lower than i thought it would be
I feel I should have done better, but I suspect picking modern-ish players are always a risk.
I don't know how Socrates does so poorly. Definitely not a worse team than mine. He might have arguably less talent than some, but I think his team was best built. Having all that crossers feeding Gullit and Kocsis is a recipe for victories.
Yeah, I wondered whether people would assume I should put Sarosi in attack (that's why I added the link about his reputation as a defender too as I always intended to use him like others use John Charles often in drafts, even if I hadn't got Dalglish).
In truth I guess it's hard to judge if I did it the best way or not re: him, but I can see that others would think not even if I think so myself (I do think at his best Dalglish was a great player and Scotland's best, and would provide great balls for the young Shevchenko I'm claiming I picked up lol - like a super version Rebrov maybe!). Maybe it's even hard for us to make a great judgement on some relatively recent players and Khurtsilava could be one of those even, but yeah I wondered if some of the great attacks in other teams could have some joy surging forwards against your team, so I think it was the attack that did it for your team as much as anything (maybe people see it the same as me in that the teams that came top did have reasons to be there even though the quality difference in overall teams was not huge in general at all). I seem to remember you picked similar attacks in the past with wingers supplying Muller but could be wrong, but with Di Stefano in the mix too you had loads of goals to be scored probably! Congratulations on the win (again, can't remember lol, but maybe it's your first?) - well deserved.
Yes, Dalglish-Shevchenko is excellent combination and nothing particulary is wrong with Sarosi on CB, but maybe another combination would perform better.
In 4-2-2-2 (or 4-1-2-1-2) formation, I prefer playing with fullbacks who can play in both directions and I think McGrain fits better in your formation on RB than Ferrara.
McGrain is better than Ferrara on RB, Ferrara is better than Sarosi on CB but Dalglish isn't much better than Sarosi on SS.
But, yes in this draft format isn't big difference between teams and I had luck to draft Di Stefano, with Di Stefano your team will probably finish much higher.
Yes, I have similar attacking four in previous draft (Ronaldinho, Zidane, Matthews, Muller) when I was second (not bad two drafts and I had won first and second place).
In this draft I pick big name players before players who in my opinion will fit better in my team (like R.Koeman instead of Stam or Ferdinand and Monti-Jennings combination instead of Mackay-Buffon).
I think that Stam-Mackay-Buffon will fit better in my team than R.Koeman-Monti-Jennings (who is better names) and I'm courious what everyone else is thinking.
Yes, tbh when I picked Ferrara (which I did on a bit of a whim as suddenly I liked the idea) then I felt I was committing to trying something different and including the 3 at the back formation (but yes I suppose I could ditch that and play McGrain as a normal right back as he wouldn't suit the 3 at the back as well as Ferrara surely).
If I'd wanted I could have taken a different Italian at that stage for my defence.
Not to be sure that they were better (maybe they'd be perceived not) but if I was taking a support forward from Hungary maybe I'd go with the more recent Hidegkuti or Albert. But for a while (until the likes of Dalglish and Bergkamp were still around) I had thought about using wider support attackers only and nobody as a SS so much, but with Zidane as an AM.
Oh, yes, if you only did two drafts that is a great record then indeed! Excape Goat won the first Sheep Draft with Dzajic on the wing and Muller up front too I remember (also Neeskens in midfield lol, but I seem to think Monti too).
I guess Jennings is more the 'legend' still, but whether he's a bigger name in history than Buffon now? Maybe not?
Similar to the Hidegkuti/Albert vs Sarosi situation, maybe Mackay would be easier to judge and envision in a team. Whether Monti gets under-rated or over-rated is a bit impossible to tell I suppose, but everyone knows he was a hard man who could also play a bit and was a big factor in the 1930's I suppose (on a global scale more than Mackay I suppose). Maybe you could have got a speedy partner or expert man marker alongside Koeman even?
I had no idea what I was going to do coming into this draft. I just picked Beckenbauer, because he was the best player not picked, and I've never got him in other drafts.....I got Rijkaard because having the best DM ever is perfect for Beckenbauers marauding runs up the pitch. It was only then that I decided to look at what my real options were...and I soon realised that the forward roles were being snapped up, and there were fewer real greats (without the South Americans) in those forward positions. It is no surprise that the top 2 teams finished where they did..they concentrated on the best attacking players...and then dipped into the larger pool in mid and defence after. Attack will nearly always win a team one of these drafts (thats what won me the last sheep draft, with Cruyff and Puskas) as long as your defence and mid are good (if not the best), and work in a formation.
Congrats on the winner Steller.
For my own opinion, I believed both @babaorum and @Karloski teams would have beaten both the 1st and 2nd place teams due to superior defense from karlos and the most balanced team in the draft in baba. Its also possible I rate Luis Monti a bit lower than the consensus.
Of course that Buffon is greater than Jennings, but it was more about combination Monti/Jennings vs Mackay/Buffon (I could choose only one player from pot A &D). I was afraid that someone would think that Mackay would be weak spot.
I'm not sure about others, but changing those two spots probably wouldn't change that I voted you 2nd! Perhaps Mackay in Khurtsilava's slot and Voronin for Monti could be interesting even (with Buffon or Zoff in goal) but there are loads of little tweeks we could all make I guess.
I could've gone with Phillipe Albert or another Belgian instead of Carvalho (or at least a Pool C player), to allow Bergkamp instead of Ceulemans. But I had intended to draft Ceulemans (maybe these thoughts do get in the way of vote chasing lol too, but I think he fitted well enough in the team and did give some of the width Karloski felt I was lacking even with him in - other options instead of Bergkamp would have included Rensenbrink and Finney from Peru FC's Pick 11 list, plus Faas Wilkes though). I don't know how that'd be seen in terms of getting an extra borderline great perhaps vs losing some balance when there might already be doubts on the Magic Square even if Tigana should suit it of course and Zidane did well in not too dissimilar line-ups at times, like in the 1998 WC Final arguably.
Since you won I'll have a think which formation I would have chosen vs your team in a few minutes lol! Maybe I'll decide you'd still win though myself even?! I might have a think about who I'd vote top in each section of the team (defence, midfield, attack) as I hadn't done that specifically as yet, but I'm guessing indeed the winning teams (and those I voted at the top) would be featuring more for the attacking end of things even though everyone had plenty of attacking quality of course.
Hmm, I think if we had voted for sub-categories like that too my top 4 for defence might have been:
1 - Karloski
2 - thebigman
3 - Socrates82
4 - el cabezon
For the midfield (can be a bit hard to separate out from the attack of course in a lot of cases) *excluding mine from consideration, although for defence I'm sure that'd have made no difference unless maybe Sarosi was really like a Baresi (Franco to be precise) in defence but just like a Pele in attack lol, although I did have one of the best goalies!
1 - Steller
2 - Excape Goat
3 - babaorum
4 - La-Maquina
Pretty tight between all those IMO though I think.
1 - Steller
2 - La-Maquina
3 - Poetgooner
4 - Peru FC
I haven't included Tom's team in a category (probably considered attack the most) but I didn't vote it bottom actually and did like the thought that had gone into piecing it together with a commitment to the playing style. Kopa would probably be fun to watch and effective in that sort of role I think.
And I think I'd probably stick with the Magic Square vs Steller's team lol! Maybe trying to move Zidane out of Monti's way as often as possible (especially as it wouldn't necessarily be Monti getting sent off if they met at some stage haha!) and trying to get Dalglish to play Shevchenko in behind the CB's! Maybe having defensive stay at home full-backs would at least help in that match-up though, but admittedly they might need some help!
My top 5
2) La Maquina
4) Tom Stevens
I got the top 3 right. Tom Stevens is the only one that did not do as well as I have rated him. Perhaps, I am the only one who saw Kopa as a false 9.
I did not realise how close @Steller was to mine. I actually thought that I had Matthews until I searched for my lineup.
Manfred Kaltz----Jürgen Kohler---Domingos Da Guia----José Antonio Camacho
Luis Figo-------Monti---------Johan Neeskens--------Dragan Dzagic
--------------Hugo Sanchez-------Gerd Mueller------
Both Steller and La Maquina finished on top because they got good players and their tactics are simple to understand. I forgot how I judged their teams. I just took a peek at their lineup and I already understood their team.
Do they have good players? Di Stefano, Muller, Xavi, Platini, Puskas, etc.
Can they defend the midfield? Yes, Pirri and Monti.
Can they move the ball forward? Masopust and Xavi.
Can they organize the attack? Platini and Di Stefano.
How about playing the wide? Dzaghi, Figo, Matthews and Riggs.
Defense? I am not a good judge of defence All of their players were good players. They belonged in this draft. Kohler and Vasovic looked liked a working pair.
Yes, I do look at the quality of players. For your team, Alaba is too young to be in this draft. He still needs to prove himself. Carvalho is not so bad, but I can't say how others viewed him.
To me the result is all personal preference and i feel like people side with the names rather than the output of the team
I enjoy the picking of the team far more than the voting etc