For as long as i've had access to tapes of great players from the past and players of today i've wondered about 2 things. Ultimate all time dream teams. And Ultimate 'counter players' to the greats who have played the game. I believe that for every offensive player there is a defensive player who is his equal who perhaps (as is the nature of these kind of things) doesn't get the merit the offensive player does. For example i swear to this day that Davids at his peak could mark the 'unmarkable' Maradona out of a game. Both extremely fast, short, low centre of gravity intelligent, determined stubborn - I don't think Maradona would be able to shake Davids off - if you beat Davids with a piece of skill he is on you again within a flash. I remeber watching Maradona often go round players who were 'too tall' whose poor in comparison centre of gravity meant that they couldn't keep up with Maradona and basically once he had beaten them that was that man out of it - this never happens with Davids. I remember Brazil vs Holland at France98 when Ronaldo had breached the dutch defensive line and was just about to tee up a certain goal when Davids matched him stride for stride and because of his low centre of gravity could actually slide tackle Ronaldo and block his chance. At that time in 1998 only 2 other players I can think of could have done that R carlos and Thuram. Now what i'm saying is if you go through a list of the greatEST players who do you think would be their bane on the pitch? heres my list. By the way for current players you list make sure you consider them at their peak - not them havng a bad time currently or whatever. Maradona vs Davids 50/50 See above Gerd Muller vs Passarella 50/50 - Muller was crafty in the box and great in the air. Passarella specialised in both these areas and speed wise they're equal. Garrincha Vs R Carlos 50/50 R Carlos isn't clever like Garrincha but he is very studious, fast and that low centre of gravity gives him room for error. i would have loved to see these two go at it. Desailly vs Van Basten - Desailly at his peak was simply amazing and fearless lol (he'd head the ball away from someone attempting an overhead kick if it meant stopping a goal even if he got a kick in the head lol) Van Basten is guile personified the slightest angle or ball delivered could be converted i reckon Desailly would have been up to the task of marking this guy out of a game. Van Basten wouldn;t get the chance to drop those volleys simply cos i don't think Desailly would even let the ball land. Pele Vs Beckenbaur - ohhhhh another big one. intelligence is the highest factor in this match up in my opinion - the ability to pre empt would be what would have most defenders totally at a lose vs Pele. But i believe Beckenbaur would be up to it. both amzing in the air and fast on the ground i really think this match up would be a battle of brain like a chess game. Fascinating one feel free to disagree ^__^ Lothar Matthaus Vs Zizou - another mind match. Matthaus was an expert at intercepting tackles and passes. These two would have had an amazing wa in midfield and can't call it either way. Matthaus Vs Puskas - Stamina! Puskas was great but he wasn't what you'd call a physical specimen of great acumen (he was fat lol) i think after 60 minutes Puskas would be spent and i dont think he'd get the drop on Matthaus. Maldini Vs Romario - 47/53 - Romario is hard one to call. I can't really think of a centre back that i think could shut him out completely but Maldini would have the best 1on1 with him i think. Romarios speed in the box is only matched by Gerd Mullers in my opinion but unlike Muller Romario is a bonafide 'box dribbler' and therefore his maker would have to be a bonafide 'box tackler' and i've never seen anyone make so many immaculate tackles in the box as Maldini except Baresi (but baresis speed would rule him out of a match up with romario) also concentration is MASSIVE factor when talking about Romario - the dude can be asleep for 89 minutes then Bang! it's over lol. Maldini Sticks to a task so well you could swear he's part computer lol. i think he'd be the closest to shutting Romario out for the entire game but i'd say romario would have the advantage. Cruyff Vs Maldini - Cruyff free roamer play anywhere on the pitch and the eye of an eagle Maldini usa94 had what it takes to stop him. fast strongg intelligence of the scale and stamine in amazing quantity. another dream match up for me. Ronaldo Vs Thuram - 53/47 Ronaldo's another one i can't find a direct counter for but i think Thuram would be your best bet. Ronaldo just blows thru defences with that speed,power and amazing dribble speed. Thuram is the epitome of a modern elite defender. he stays on his feet till it is ABSOLUTELY vital to go to ground that factor gives him a massive boost. he is fast and his strength is unquestioned - i still don't think Ronaldo at peak has a counter but this is the closest i can come up with. i have some more match ups but i will wait a while to post em. I'd love to see what you guys can come up with on this subject. And if you disagree with my match ups feel free to disagree but please provide some logical reasoning and not just some banal bias. Good Luck - it's hard to come up with counters (for me at least)
Just picking the maldini v. romario one. That did happen in the 94 final and Romario got shut out. As for baresi being too slow, Baresi was slow in body but quick in mind and could read the game so well theat hecould stop most problems before they occurred. I don't know if anyone could have fully stopped Maradona at his best, because even if davids had got up, Maradona would have beaten him again if needed. I think that Garrincha would have nailed carlos because he commits himslef too often and then garrincha would have been away.
The thing about the 1994 WC final was Maldini wasn't directly 1vs1 with Romario he was playing as a Left Back then but i can see where you are coming from. The Davids vs Maradona one i still dunno Davids wont go to ground unless he's behind someone or coming in from an angle -they'd be ALOT of upper body battles between those two short stocky players. The main thing i tried to make apparent about tha is Maradona wouldn't have an easy time of it at all. When he played there were not that many legendary defensive midfielders about so often he had Midfield in check from start to finish. When Maradona came up against Lothar Mattheus (1990) he was shut out but i'd say that wasn't Maradona at his peak. The R Carlos vs Garrincha one i paired up because of their size and speed and also because of the fact that when R Carlos meets someone he sees as 'worthy' of proper attention he becomes a really good full on defensive left back and rarely goes to ground. Most of the time you R Carlos play he disregards his defensive duties because 1 he's confident he's better then his direct opponent and easily get back and cover (which leads to him having to recovery tackle) and 2. He prefers to attack. But i'm sure He could give Garrincha lots of problems because he'd give the dude 100% respect andattention and not abandon his defensive duties then. Do you have any match ups to add? would be cool if you did.
A couple worth mentioning. Oleg Kuznetsov vs Marco van Basten. - at the Euro 88 championships, USSR beat Holland in the group games and Kuznetsov marked van Basten out of the game. Unfortunately in the final Kuznetsov was suspended due to a yellow card he picked up in qualifying (the rule was changed shortly after this) and the rest is history. Bobby Moore vs Pele - watch the game in the 1970 World Cup, the two best sides in the world, the best defender up against the best player.
The Moore-Pele was a good oneand that game is fantastic to watch in full if only to see how the game has changed since then. I know what you mean about the Maldini-Romario one, but Baresi played him for 120 minutes and did very well. The Maradona-Mattheus problem is that except for the split second in which he set Cannigia free to score against brazil, Maradona was a shadow of himself at Italia 90. Mattheus meanwhile was at the height of his powers. I would like to see how Moore would deal with the pace of Ronaldo orthe all round game of Van Basten. also to see Just fontaine or Kocsis play against the italian defence from 1990.
Yes the 1970 world cup game between brazil and england is certainly interesting. i however don't feel Bobby Moore 'shut out' Pele he did a good job though but to think if he had shut him out Banks wouldn't have had to make that legendary save. Do you think Ronaldo has a direct counter? i seriously couldn't think of one when i was doing this for a start his counter would at least have to be able to out run him with a 5 metre head start lol then there's that dribbling. the defender would have to have impeccable timing on the tackle - the best i can come up with is Thuram for Ronaldo any other ideas? I'm very curious of thinking how those players pre 86 would cope with todays defenders someone like Cryuff or a Rivelino or whatever coming up against monsters like Davids and Viera lol people that just won't leave them alone for a second i'd love to see how they'd have dealt with that. One of the best modern games i can remember is the Le tournei France when Italy and Brazil squared up The Ro-Ro show in full swing against the mean italian defence.. heh. When i think about Ronaldo in particular i immediately think of what partnership of defenders would stop him such as Baresi sweeping up after Thuram now i think that kinda thing would work !?!? thoughts?
I think ferdinand would do a good job against Ronaldo, as in wc2002. he's got the pace and technique but he's not quite there yet.
maradona was stooped cold by a peruvian player reyna in the qualifying matches in 1986 in his book he writes that after the match when he went to the toilet he turned around to check that reyna wasnt still following him around argentina never bet peru in those qualifiers so if reyna could do it davids is more than capable
Berti Vogts vs Cryuff in the '74 Final ranks as one of the great shutdowns-Vogts did a number on him. And what interesting is Schoen didn't want him as a marker; only after the first goal did Vogts basically take matters into his own hands and marked Cruyff out of the match.
What about a 1v11? Garrincha vs. England in 1962, I think it was. Pele was out with an injury, and Garrincha ran all over England for the entire match, and Brazil won 3-1. They just couldn't get the ball away from him. I think Garrincha is the best dribbler ever in the history of soccer, hands down. Only Maradonna even came close. I don't think that ANYONE could have shut down Garrincha in his prime, but if I had to pick one guy, it would probably be Nilton Santos, becuase he played with him and knew his tricks, besides being great in his own regard. No one else would have had a chance.
I would honestly put Davids up against any elite dribbler throughout the history of the game because of his raw speed, power and low centre of gravity and that sickening recovery time he has. But i'd kinda dispute Garrincha having the mantle of best dribbler of all time to himself. I'd put Maradona and Ronaldo in that grouping simply because they did/do all their work right in the centre of the pitch and thefore have to beat far more men and show more ambidextrosity then Garrincha who hugged the right byline and mainly beat left sided players throughout his career. But Garrincha was phenomenal for sure
I've seen Puskas in action in old videos and I guarantee you that despite being fat he could run with great speed and resistance.
Another classic marking job was Maradona vs Gentile in the 1982 World Cup-really one of the most famous man-marking jobs in WC play. Gentile basically destroyed Maradona. Of course Gentile wasn't what...the most elegant of players But these are often the great one-on-battles. Diego was still young, but it was intersting to watch still.
One real scenario we had was experienced Bobby Charlton vs. young Franz Beckenbauer in the 1966 World Cup final at Wembley. Although England won, that duel ended in a draw.
People are probably referring to the second leg of the 1963 World Club Cup final Santos vs. Milan in Santos. Santos won 4-2 but Pelé didn`t score. In the first match, however, Pelé scored twice against Trapattoni (one from a pk). Regardless if that claim was true or not, Trap must have impressed some people during 1963, as he ended up in the Top 10 "Golden Ball" poll of that year, not the easiest thing to do for a defender during those years.
???? Matthaeus was used to mark maradona in 1986 Final. Maradona did exactly what you mentioned.... and Argentina went home with the World Cup.
Thing is Ronaldo was not at his peak in World Cup 98, in that game he had two break-aways (one in the second half and one in OT) and on one Davids caught up with him and on the other Frank (I think) de Boer caught up to him. Had he been at 100% he wouldn't have been catchable. Well, I mean, come on, at his peak Maradona would just have kept dribbling Davids over and over again, and at a certain point Davids would've broken his spine. Davids is a bulldog to be sure but not very skilled. is greatest asset is his ability to get up and hassle someone who just humiliated him again. But don't put him up against anyone at their peak, nevermind Maradona. This is just silly. Garrincha at his peak? No one defender in the world, even at their peak, could conceivably stop him. Same goes for Pelé, Maradona and a few others. See above, but I absolutely agree it would be wonderful to watch these two soccer brains match up on the field at their peaks. OK, I feel like a spoilsport, but come on... Pelé and Garrincha and others at their peaks really don't have any match.
Why would you try and use Roberto Carlos to stop anyone, let alone Garrincha? That's a bit like asking DiStefano to mark Puskas. Why?
maradona was stopped cold in the 1986 world cup qualifiers vs peru surely that was the era of his peak he was marked by luis reyna a limited peruvian midfielder, his job was simple follow maradona and make sure he dosnt do anything. he followed those orders and maradona was marked out of both games in buenos aires and in lima reyna was very limited, davids is 10 times the player he was, he could surely have handled maradona if he was ordered to just mark him out of the game like reyna was the 2 games in the qualifiers ended 23.Jun 85 PERU 1-0 Argentina 30.Jun 85 Argentina 2-2 PERU