All this kvetching about "the world has caught up"

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by RalleeMonkey, Aug 10, 2023.

  1. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    I believe the dual citizenship issue refers to the Netherlands, not Ethiopia. Yohannes and her father have stated she will apply for Dutch citizenship when she becomes eligible, as Macario did when she chose between her native Brazil and the USA.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lily_Yohannes#:~:text=As of April 2024, Yohannes,appearance was in a friendly.

    you have to renounce other citizenships according to Dutch law, but that would have no affect on her US citizenship under USA law.
     
  2. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While the Dutch also have issues with dual citizenship, Ethiopia also does not allow dual citizenship.

    https://www.dualcitizenshipreport.org/dual-citizenship/ethiopia/

    The Ethiopian legal system strictly prohibits dual citizenship.
     
  3. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
  4. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    When interviewed before the friendly, she dodged the question whether she would choose to play for the Netherlands or the USA senior teams. Since she just played in a friendly, she can still choose.

    I’ll point out that her club team Ajax lists her nationality as “Nederlandse”, so maybe her nationality application is a done deal.

    https://english.ajax.nl/teams/ajax-women/lily-yohannes/
     
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  5. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    One of the interviews with Yohannes that deals with who she will play for on the international level was wit Sam Mewis.



    Listen from about the 26th minute of the video to the end.
     
  6. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From what I've seen, her parents are Eritrean, not Ethiopian.
     
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  7. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    a couple things here….

    first off, her parents were born in what is now Eritrea, not Ethiopia. Her Granfather identified as Eritrean in international play. They were refugees in Ethiopia before they came to the US and got citizenship here.
    https://www.nefasitpost.com/eritrea...d-with-the-famous-ajax-amsterdams-women-club/


    Second, the wiki on Dutch citizenship lists exceptions to the prohibition on dual citizenship,including whether doing so would cause economic hardships and certain exceptions for minors.
    We don’t know what claims are on her application, if any.


    ( and the USA hardly ever accepts renounced citizenship for people born in the USA. Even Lee Harvey Oswald’s US passport was returned to him even after he renounced his citizenship and wrote that her would reveal military secrets to the Soviets if he became a Soviet citizen. The right to citizenship for Natural born citizens is guaranteed in the Constitution regardless what a certain ex-president thinks with regard to revoking citizenship to felons.
     
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  8. Midwest

    Midwest Member

    Pro-MLS, Aston Villa
    Jun 29, 2014
    United States
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #233 Midwest, Jun 7, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2024
    What's amusing to me is how the narrative goes one way.

    • The gap between Rest of World and US is closing - and closing fast
    • US must focus on tactics and technique over speed and power because what made the Rest of the World men's side a success is happening to the women's side
    • US is stubborn so they won't focus on tactics and technique
    • Even if the US focuses on tactics and technique they'll still struggle because the likes of Germany, France, England and Spain will be established and there's nothing the US can do about it.
    • US will never see another WC win
    So the Rest of the World can close the gap and overtake the USWNT, but when it comes to the men's side the USMNT may close the gap (just barely) but will never truly compete against soccer powerhouses like Brazil, England, Spain, Italy, France, Netherlands etc. etc.

    Interesting how that works.

    I was just waiting for the narrative to carryover to the women's side.

    But if the Rest of the World can close the gap in about five years, why can't the USWNT collect themselves, double down with a few changes, and then push themselves ahead given they are STILL the established soccer power?

    "Oh no no it's different, partly because parents in, say, Europe, talk to their kids about the sport in a more mature way than American parents do! Until Americans change the youth level culture we'll never be good!"

    Well I can't wait till Europe adopts AAU and NCAA for basketball, after all why not adopt the systems used by the US since the US knows better given it's dominant in basketball.
     
  9. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    The point being made is that womens football is "catching up" nobody is suggesting that the US womens game will necessarily, ultimately, get "left behind".
     
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  10. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Don't forget that women's football has only just started to be a 'thing' within the last 10 years......in fact only 5 years ago it had zero coverage and was played in front of a handful of fans here, even now the money and interest in women's football here is miniscule compared to the men's game, 5 years ago girls simply did not play football (soccer) at school or anywhere else, suddenly and very recently it's getting a foothold and when (if) global institutions like Manchester United start putting it's resources properly into the womens game it will, in theory of course make a HUGE difference to the quality of the women's game. I'd imagine the fact that there are FAR more young girls of 10-15 years old now playing than there were 10 years ago will result in better women's teams in another 10 years or so.

    Even now many of the England women's team speak of how they had to play in the boys teams when they were at school.
     
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  11. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm pretty sure we in the US were wondering why Europe wasn't further ahead. They had a similar attitude toward women's inclusion, soccer centered in society , vastly more facilities at even the lowest levels, more and better coaches and more parents/adults who could teach the game at the lowest levels.

    The US's limited resources have traditionally evenly split between boys and girls, which, theoretically should have held back both, at least compared to Europe.
     
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  12. PJ234

    PJ234 Member

    DC united
    United States
    Oct 17, 2021
    I saw somewhere that the Liga MX femeil final had an audience of 4.9 Million people. I think the most recent NWSL final didn't even reach 1 million views.
     
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  13. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #238 BostonRed, Jun 8, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2024
    Liga MX Femenil has some weird patterns with viewership/attendance. Average attendance by club this Clausura ranged from 9000 to 210, with an average of 2456. Looks like the high was 25k, which was almost half the club's attendance for the season.

    They got 38.5k & 17k for the the 2-legged final.

    They had a record 51k in 2018 for one leg of the Clausura finals.

    The fans will turn out for some big events, but not consistently. It would be interesting to see the ratings for that game compared to the men's final from a day or two earlier and the rest of the women's season.
     
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  14. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Back in the day, a much more homophobic era, in England women's soccer was considered a game played mostly by lesbians. That made it a sport for which it was very difficult for young girls to play (and their parents to have them play). A former English female/lesbian professional player explained this to me when I expressed surprise her daughter did not play football.

    Times have changed.
     
  15. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    England were World Cup semifinalists in 2015 and 2019, so somebody must have been doing something right earlier than five years ago. They didn't go from zero to European champions in three years.

    Now, 20-25 years ago, England didn't come anywhere close to qualifying for the World Cup, so it has indeed been a rapid rise, but on a bit longer timescale than 5 years.
     
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  16. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    The team may have been doing well in 2015 but trust me when I say womens football wasn't a 'thing' back then (which makes the fact they got to a final even more extraordinary).

    The Womens football league only turned pro in 2018, crowds were then tiny, Manchester United, who are arguably the worlds biggest football club didnt even have a team back then, I didn't even realise there was a women's league back then, I didn't know there was a women's national team either.

    The point is that the growth of the game this side of the pond is bound to affect the quality of opposition facing the US team (where football has traditionally been a girls game) and IF the game in Europe or for that matter South America continues to grow then the competition is going to get even more fierce, the womens game has grown massively over the last 5 years but it's still miniscule compared to the men's game which is a national obsession here and elsewhere in Europe and South America.
     
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  17. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
     
  18. Hexa

    Hexa Member+

    May 21, 2010
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    I think the NCAA will help maintain the USWNT as a top team. Brazil and Argentina used to have top men’s leagues, but with the rise of European club soccer around 1980, an ever-increasing talent drain began, which eventually turned South American leagues into a farm system for European teams.

    Brazil and Argentina are still top national teams, but local clubs cannot compete with Europe’s best anymore.

    I believe the same will happen with US/Canada women’s clubs. Over time, Europe will surpass everyone due to money (check the biggest women’s club attendance records), infrastructure, technical know-how (established clubs are investing in women), and most importantly, quality regional club competition.

    There is nothing comparable to the UCL in the men’s soccer calendar and, in my opinion, the UWCL will establish itself as the premier women’s club competition as well.

    The NWSL will still be a top global league, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Spain, France, Germany, and England could easily out-spend and attract the best global talent due to the UWCL and money in 4 to 5 years from now. However, I still expect the NWSL to be a top 5 league in the foreseeable future, above South American and Asian leagues.
     
  19. PJ234

    PJ234 Member

    DC united
    United States
    Oct 17, 2021
    The way college sports is going. Women's soccer might not exist anymore.
     
  20. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Why? Or is that just wishful thinking?
     
  21. PJ234

    PJ234 Member

    DC united
    United States
    Oct 17, 2021
    Big two in college sports want to control the revenue making sports. Women's soccer doesn't make money like that unfortunately.
     
  22. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Although much change is coming, Title IX will be a huge factor. If the "big" schools start pumping more money into football and basketball, Title IX may require them to match that with more money into women's sports, of which soccer would be likely to be a major beneficiary.
     
  23. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    The difference, and what would have to be doubled down, is that coaches would be rewarded for developing players that either 1 - helped the clubs senior team win or 2 - were sold to another club that thought the player could help their senior team win.

    All the existing grift/graft around extracting money from parents chasing college soccer would have to dry up. Too much money is being made on the the tournaments (entry fees, charing parents to park to see their kids, etc), the travel (think about the mid level hotels and olive gardens/pizza uno/insert generic chain restaurant here that would suffer)

    Not that college soccer should go away. It should just be more like say, gymanstics, where our best, the olympians, are on one path, that sees them in the olympics in their late teens, and then there's the ncaa path for everyone else. And since there is a professional soccer league, maybe some late bloomers come through college soccer and can continue playing in NWSL or USL-S. But most of the players in those leagues were developed through professional academies.

    We'd also have to address the coaching issue, if the pro academies just hire the top ECNL/GAL coaches now, are we really gaining anything by producing more constant transition head down dribbling into 1vN situations because it worked once at u15 players.

    But you have to think with real money on the line, that would sort itself...
     
  24. hotjam2

    hotjam2 Member+

    Nov 23, 2012
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    It’s not all of Europe that’s catching up, but only a few(but those might of surpassed us) Bigwigs like France, Germany & Italy still significantly lack behind in financial support/practically zero support for woso in Eastern Europe.
    ‘Club Power’ over national fervor is what I see more of striving Euro success, as long as respect rich/powerful clubs like Barca, Chelsea & Lyon continue to invest in woso development, others will follow.

    do to being such a sports crazy country & willing the spend $$$$, the US is already rectifying its poor WC performance by hiring an high profile Euro club coach for the NT as well three Spanish coaches in the NWSL.

    FIFA rankings are out in a couple days, there’s a fair chance the US will get up to #2(do to England & France last week trading losses with each)….and if only the US would send its best young players (Johannes, Moultrie, Shaw, Thompson eccedra) to this year’s upcoming u20 WC, I think we can be very competitive & show that our youth development isn’t as bad as people claim to be(though to be fair, Euro club, Ajax, is currently training Johannes)

    another trend at last year’s WC is diversity, whether it’s the African(or 1st generational) speed burners or Olga, the Roma/Gypsy(poorest ethnic group in Europe) that scored the game winner in the final—-previous or earlier WC’ winners looked like they came out of exclusive country clubs, lol. Being so diverse should be a big plus in US remaining competitive
     
  25. Crawleybus

    Crawleybus Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Diversity has little to do with winning football matches, if that was the case then Argentina, Italy and Germany wouldn't have won all of those World Cups.
     
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