Maybe typed nothing or you typed nonsense, We also talked about "...defenses wouldn’t still be collapsing toward him" & "Actual goals, assists... " -parts in both the posts you quoted. Or are we gonna ignore how you conveniently left that part out? Because every time the conversation tries to move forward, someone drags it back to square one like it’s Groundhog day with worse takes
It led to trophies, finals goals, and literally being man of the match in a world title final but more importantly it also led to lot of butthurt "fans" finally showng their true faces.
UCL final goal was June 2024. Intercontinental Cup final goal + MOTM was Dec 2024. UEFA Super cup win was Aug 2024.
I knew you're gonna go with the actual dates rather than the footballing calendar . But thats not what I was talking about. So again, what did his stats lead to? The UEFA Supercup and Intercontinental Cup mentions were just
You asked last 2 years. not “the last 2 seasons but only the parts I personally rate.” and even if we play your little season game, it still doesn’t save you. So when you ask “what did his stats lead to?” the answer is: goals, assists, finals impact, and silverware. If your response is “lol those trophies don’t count,” cool. Then stop celebrating them when we win them and stop crying when we don’t. You can’t flip the value of trophies based on whether they help your argument.
People simply don't find him very endearing and it's absolutely hilarious to me that this isn't obvious to you, and the reason for it.
Ahuh. Slight of hand, slight of logic. Too bad the great Intercontinental Cup didn't save Carlo's job
Echoing what you saidd to Hendrix in Mbappe thread, "Good. At least you're honest that your judgment is clouded." Lot of you want “endearing” like you’re picking a golden retriever, not judging a winger Sleight of hand is you asking “what did it lead to” and then deciding trophies don’t count the second they answer your question. And lol at “didn’t save carlo’s job.” yeah, no kidding. Jobs get decided on the big targets, league, champions league, overall trajectory. A December cup isn’t a lifetime contract. Like I said, that doesn't erase vini's output so again, thanks for contributing nothing.
I don't care about his character, his appearance or his personality. Even the contract stuff. Get paid. If he gets 70 mil. out of the club, congratulations. It's just that he's a huge diver and a provocative player that plays with bad intentions at times. There have been other players that were the amongst the best in the game despite those flaws (Dani Alves, Pepe), so that's not really anything new or different, but it doesn't really give the guy a lot of credit when things are not going well. We tolerated Pepe's psychological deficiency as long as he was a fantastic player, so I don't believe that this will sway internal opinion too much, but the public has no reason to like a player like that. I insist that Vinicius is the same player he's always been. It's just that the expectations have changed.
Read slower next time. I didn’t dismiss those trophies. You did. You literally called the Uefa supercup and intercontinental cup “lol” and tried to pretend they don’t count. I’m the one saying they’re still silverware, still finals, still part of the record. What I said was Carlo’s job isn’t decided by a december cup. That’s not “dismissing” the trophy, that’s acknowledging how this club judges managers. You asked “what did it lead to.” Answer: trophies + finals impact + production. Then you went: “no not those trophies.” that’s the foot shooting. not me pointing out you’re doing it. “Reason for it” part is obvious. He’s loud, emotional, black,confrontational and he doesn’t play the humble little good boy role some fans want. What’s hilarious is you think “not endearing” is a football argument. it’s not. it’s a personality preference. You say you do not care about his character, personality. Fine. but then you basically list “diver, provocative, bad intentions” and land on “public has no reason to like him.” That is literally a character argument just in different packaging. Bad intentions bit is doing a lot of work with zero specifics. Are we talking about exaggerating contact? Yeah, he sells fouls sometimes. So does every elite attacker who gets hacked repeatedly. You do not survive as a high usage winger in this league if you do not protect yourself and force refs to make calls. Many times he doesn't get fouls "just because he's vini" - case in point being Alaves denied pen. The part I actually agree with is your last line,,, expectations changed. yes. Because he went from raw chaos to being the primary outlet, but if expectations changed, then guess what also has to change? The team. The structure & balance & the coaching.
So why didnt the December trophy save Carlo's job? Perhaps it didnt matter eh? Those trinket mentions just reek desperation.
I actually think that he changed a lot after the incident and that he became a different player in a year or two - a lot less dirty tackles, yellow cards and stuff. I also think that Ramos was "dirtier" of the two (i loved both of them), but his public image was much better than Pepe's. But i do agree with the point you were making about Vini.
He kicked out at Arbeloa, like, for nothing. That was after the incident and legitimately the moment where I thought he's insane or at least a bit unstable. The most shocking reveal was Keylor Navas though. Him going to court over keeping slave workers locked up in his home with video to prove it was not on my bingo cards.
A trophy can matter and still not be enough to save a manager. Madrid’s bar for coaches is league and champions league. You asked a very specific question “what did his stats lead to?” The answer includes finals impact and trophies, whether you personally rate them or not. If you want to rephrase your question as “what did it lead to that fits my preferred narrative,” just say that upfront and save everyone the loop. lmao nice deflection, but no, It’s called describing what people on this forum constantly complain about. You lot label him loud,emotional, confrontational every other page, then when someone points out that’s literally why he’s polarizing, suddenly it’s “profiling” Since you want to play word games the whole point is that people aren’t reacting to his football first, they’re reacting to his vibe.
Trophies didn’t matter is just you downgrading silverware midthread because it’s inconvenient. They mattered enough for madrid to play the finals, celebrate them, add them to the record and for players to literally win man of the match in them. You don’t get to call them “trinkets” only when you’re losing the argument. So when facts disagree with your take you shrink the timeframe and devalue the trophies. Gotcha, chief!
You've written an entire thesis on this guy by now. It really begs the question, is everything OK? Thousands of words. Like. For what?
For the same reasons you wrote this. It isnt anything shorter than an essay either. Or for the same reason arcane keeps coming back with worse takes. Maybe ask others as well? Besides, it’s thousands of words because you lot keep replying without refuting a single point. Threads don’t monologue themselves
lol if I wanted attention i’d post “vini OUT” and farm likes with you lot. Im replying because you feel the points I make are worth replying. (even tho they often don't stand a chance) Don’t start a 20 post argument then act offended when someone has the stamina to finish it.