Discussion in 'Real Madrid' started by RM or None, May 23, 2017.
We're asking him to be a leader when at present, he doesn't have the temperament to be that.
I’ve never seen this
the league has had truly detestable characters like Diego Costa, Neymar, Suarez, and even Ramos in some cases
yet never seen anyone be made a public enemy like this. He argues with the refs and stuff but he is far from a real villain
This is getting out of control and no one is standing up for the kid both on or off the pitch
We only need him to be a leader in goals and assists.
Truth is while Benz and Modric and Kroos all get praise for their stoicism but they simply aren't the guys to get in the other teams face and take the pressure off Vinicius. It's just not their personality.
It's clear Vinny will be "that guy" in the future but for the time being he's not mentally prepared for the role. He's got the fight in him but doesn't keep his head, neither did Ramos at that age.
These are the situations where you want need seasoned vets like CR7, Ramos, Xabi, Iker, etc.
Fed, Cama, Tchou, Rodrygo, etc., they are all, like Vinny, too green for that kind of responsibility even if it is something they might develop as they mature.
Unfortunately I think that when players say he is provoking, I don't think they mean with step overs or dancing. I think they mean trash talking, which is within his control.
I really don't know. It's a little bit absurd that the whole league would get this bent out of shape just because he celebrates goals with a little samba dance. That's been going on for decades without this kind of animosity in play.
I’m glad someone brought this up. I know we like to put the blinders on because Vini is one of our own but when 19 other teams have a problem with the guy maybe the player is the issue and needs to tone it down?
None of us are privy to what is said and done the pitch when it comes to the trash talking.
Nobody is talking about it but Vini is free to sign on a Bosman next January as things stand. It’s going to be interesting to see what happens this summer.
I think we can separate racial abuse, which is obviously deplorable, from Vinicius needing to stop being so frankly childish and get on with his game. Ronaldo was public enemy for most of his career too but will quiet everyone with his performances.
Vinicius is sarcastically laughing at every foul not given, bitching to the ref about everything and getting into fights with players. All at the same time having a very mediocre season compared to his last one.
There's a reason why Modric and Benzema, as called out on this thread, are quite stoic. They're grown up. Vinicius had one good season and that's got to his head like crazy, but it's also negatively affecting his performances. The likes of Ronaldo brushed off the boos and double man-marking as a sign he was the best, it's going to happen. It's football!
Everyone is having a poor season, but Vinicius is the only one showing such petulance.
Vinicius is displaying arrogant and entitled demeanour on the pitch. People here are saying he should be defended more on the pitch and off it, but regarding the first one, it seems even his teammates are annoyed at the constant distractions, and for the latter, I just don't see what the club can do or say so that this circus would stop; in fact if they do it will probably get worse.
The only one who can help is himself. Starting with shutting his mouth. Hes barking to opposition players and referees non stop. Shut down the noise and focus, thats all.
I remember the Liverpool game when Milner (I think) went in hard on Benzema.
Then Casemiro sent him into the stands 5 minutes later.
That changed their attitude to our players and changed the game because Liverpool became afraid to play their game.
Now who do we have? Closest I’ve seen resemble are Militao and Rudiger.
I don't think we're disagreeing on anything here but I want to add to my post that may have been a bit vague.
You're right Vini needs to be a leader in goals and assists which is the type of leader Cristiano was. He's also someone that had different leadership attributes than Ramos, Modric and others. The end result is the same, he needs to be able to feed off of the animosity or shut it out.
Of course, easy for me to say but I don't see these swathes of away fans changing any time soon, especially if they see if they can gain an advantage using it.
I hope Valverde, Tchouameni or Camavinga pick up that sort of attitude.
Pepe and Ramos were already doing it at their age.
I don’t see it from any of those three yet.
Sign Colombian Wilmar Barrios
not Madrid quality but an enforcer for
This is what kills me. Wish we had an enforcer to stand up for Vini, it would make a huge difference. I expect Tchou to grow into that role.
Maybe Vini should've kicked out and also have the good people of Spain pay his fine.
If this abhorrent sh!t continues vs Vini pre, during and post every away game in Spain without the club taking an official aggressive stand to end it, he should consider leaving La Liga, I don't think it is healthy for the kid to stay in such a poisonous environment.
Vini does some stupid crap on the pitch, but he's a kid. His antics can be resolved internally by a competent coaching staff– preferably with Neymar shutting the fu*k up, too.
Vini needs guidance, psycological support and the public backing of the higher ups. Flo can pretend Vini is ESL.
Sadly, whatever filth Vini is being subjected to is "working" in isolating him on the pitch and effectively neutralizing his threat as he's forcefully dragged away from the game and into a zone of mental conflicts with the opponents.
And it'll only get worse if the club doesn't step-in.
That considered, I don't think Vini will stay in Spain past next season.
This is where we miss Casemiro because Case would have slide into that idiots knee.
Anyways, it's amazing to me to see fans say a young player should just easily ignoring being targeted like this... while the entire organization does the least it possible can do to protect him.
Yet whenever someone mentions ESL negatively we're holding news conferences and giving moronic shows exclusives.
He is one of our own and has absolutely earned his keep. Nothing he has done or said has “deserved” all the BS he is receiving. Maybe he talks smack, maybe he scores and dances. So what. He is our player and should be publicly supported at all times and corrected behind doors, if necessary. I would really like to see his teammates putting on for him in the field more. That badge pull into his face was beyond disrespectful. Lol
Has nothing to do with talking "smack".
We have idiots like Raul Garcia who have built a career off of talking shit and acting like a butcher and he has never been singled out, talk much stalked like Vinicius.
I actually don't mind players trash talking like that, it's just that when apparently Vini does that it's an excuse for racial abuse and being kicked to pieces. Curious to see what anyone justifying the treatment Vini gets thinks of that City reject mock crying when he spent half the game pretending to be hurt. Maybe the lovely Atletico fans will make him a piñata too.
The thing about trash talking is you have to be prepare to back it up. That might be with your play but it also might be with your hands. We can talk about fair play, wah, wah, wambulance.. but it does Vinicius no good if people can't accept the present reality and are feeding him some liberal fantasy world b.s. where we are all holding hands and singing kumbaya.
What probably started out as racism from some fans has turned into every opposing player and fan realizing they can do and say this stuff ro get into his head and under his skin (regardless of race or national origin) and gain an advantage.
Of course as our main goal threat he's going to get fouled disproportionately more. Is it fair, no. Does it happen to other players, yes. What world are people living in.
Literally in the same thread we have people saying "if only we had Casemiro or Pepe around to teach these guys a lesson " which is the equivalent of saying that if Vinicius is being racially abused the answer is to racially abuse opposing players back and "give them a taste of their own medicine." Good lord.
That can be true, but at the same time he's the most fouled player in Europe by a huge distance, and that's just the calls he gets, that was brought up on the DAZN broadcast. It's obvious he's rattled, but it's also obvious that he's playing with a target on his back. He's not the most fouled player on the team, not the most fouled player in Spain, he's the most fouled player in Europe. That's pretty insane.
I think it will get worse before it gets better. Somebody will injure him badly.
The club to step in and do what exactly? This isn't school where you go to the head teacher if someone is being bullied. This is professional sport where taunting and getting into the head of your opposition is done all the time.
With that said, have you noticed what type players get regularly targeted with this shit? Ronaldo, Messi, Bale, Robben etc. didn't. It's just the brain dead ones like Balotelli, Rooney and now Vinicius who fall for the antics.
If Vinicius stops taking the bait, the opposition will stop. At the moment, players know Vinicius is their biggest threat and can easily nullify that by getting in his head a little. If this was Ronaldo, Messi, Benzema or most other players for that matter, they'll brush it off and focus on their game. The opposition will then realise they have to put effort into actually stopping them on the pitch, playing actual football.
I think the slight issue with this discussion on Vinicius is that people are merging multiple talking points as one, thought I admit there is overlap.
He's probably the most fouled player because of how we play as a team (everything going through him) and how he plays as an individual. But also, the fact that there is so much attention on him now, I feel like he tries to do too much on the ball which ultimately leads to him being fouled more often.
With all that said, it doesn't change the fact that Vinicius visibly let's other players get to him and that's not going to step by the league or Perez asking everyone to play nice.
Hell, this mirrors the mini football league I play in. Best player in the league plays for us and will score twice as many goals as anyone else. Last season, he would get little nicks, shoves and a bit of verbal which would always lead to him kicking off and then subsequently getting sent off.
Next season that all stopped and he won player of the season. Why? He had a good talking to and stopped blowing up after every incident. There was no point trying to physically or verbally provoke him as it wouldn't work.
If things don't improve, he'll be asking for a transfer sooner than later. I think he has to be a little more focused but what the league is doing here is criminal, he's literally being punished for being fouled non-stop.
Ramos used to run across the entire field to put a word into the situation. At this level, when i see a player being crowded by 3 to 4 opponents talking to him and nobody steps in i question the structure of the team. You need the kind of guy that will step in and tell a guy he is risking his paycheck doing this stuff.
It's a dark topic, but at the point that Pepe unloaded on Casquero he was a contributing player, and had quite the mouth on him. After the Pepe foul he went on a negative slide to irrelevacy. He was really negatively impacted.
If you look at all the succesful teams, they all had a couple bad seeds in there to make sure things don't lose control.
We really lack that, way too soft, that's why Vinicius is arguably symbolic for the team, a ton of talent but a team that gets bullied under pressure.