Good old we condem and doesnt represent majority of the fans blablabla. Time to leagues (not just spain) just not allowing any people in when shit like this happens. When it hurts the club where it matters clubs will do something about it.
When it hurts the club it hurts the fans, when it hurts the fans it hurts the votes and public approval, when it hurts the public approval everything goes to court and gets shot down. I think some people need to get hip to the fact that this is a "feature" you won't get out of Spanish football any time soon.
Exactly. The guy is basically saying people should be fine with being mistreated and accept it as a life feature because others and himself are okay with it. Imagine if we as people were so spineless we went with all the bad things and didn't strive, push for better? Clown world. A world where people get angry other people make career decisions for themselves and their families yet are very okay with mistreatment of people because it's "common and vogue man, get with the times and chill and vibe with the abuse!"
How many decades of racist incidents for people to accept that this is a part of the country, not the football? Even Real Madrid isn't pushing this issue as hard as people would like them to because the club is part of the system. Circle is player says he was racially abused, the League makes it political "this guy said Spain is racist!" the country pushes back, the player gets blamed. When Aragones was on tape using racist insults at Henry the country clutched their pearls and called Henry soft/said Aragones was misunderstood. Been this way since Kameni.
I need people to read this a couple of times just to understand the absurdity of this statement. With a mindset like that slave ownership never would have been outlawed, rights for miniorities and women in the States would have never been accomplished, etc. Just wow. Really didn't know this is how you thought and this was who you really were till the World Cup thread.
Real Madrid is part of the problem. There is a reason Florentino won't push hard for this. I know the idea is that the club is in support of Vini but the words are as empty as Valladolid's. Whether me or you would like to see Valladolid face an empty stadium ban is irrelevant, most of Spanish football including Florentino, wouldn't. The players are on their own.
I don't think that's what he is saying, he is saying the empty words that follow are worthless and not actually a solution, which I fully agree with. Some here were saying EPL is much better about this like racism is solved there, yet as soon as a black player misses a penalty they have to get off twitter.
Tebas was more outraged by Vini dancing than being given the actual evidence of racism towards him. Backwards country and backwards league. No wonder people head towards the premier league.
The truth is more uncomfortable than we'd want to accept. Madrid is part of the problem: https://es-us.deportes.yahoo.com/no...rante-el-real-madrid-barcelona-221358486.html Didn't see anybody here ask that we should play without fans for a month.When it comes to racism, fans and clubs will rather stand by their own than the foreign player.
If that is what he is saying then why not encourage change instead of enabling by requesting for people to understand "that's just the culture". Lastly, I wasn't aware of racist abuse to Dembele in the Bernabeu and my stance doesn't change just because it's my club. I'm not selective.... or at least I try not to be.
Racism and all other regressive shit is rampant on social media and no one claimed English society is clean. At least PL takes action when it happens in their stadium rather than moving goalposts like whole society is fvcked. If English FA thought like 4x4s, Hooliganism would have been as worse in PL as it was 30 years ago if not more. Vini faced racist attack at Atletico and Valladolid stadiums this year. What has La Liga done? Inaki faced it before. No significant action. PL and CL gives stadium bans for that. Why did RM ban ultras? They were attendeding Bernabeu matches for decades. By 4x4s logic, should have let those Neo-Nazis continue because why change something?
@4x4s doesn't support racism, have been here long enough to atleast understand that, he is just pointing out to the futility of the approach of the Spanish authorities who always let it pass and doesn't take any reasonable action to check this malpractice, it includes even our own club. I guess that's what he has been trying to say. It really is sad that in today's time such acts go unpunished, really is shameful and tells a lot about the country to be honest.
I remember how Barca stood up for Eto'o when he faced racism in Zaragoza. Otherwise, this would have continued in several stadiums against him. RM needs to do the same. If club management doesn't have any principle, at least do it out of selfish interests because players like Vinicius isn't gonna settle for being treated like this when there are leagues like PL that shows zero tolerance towards racism in their stadiums. RM has a ton of lawsuits against La Liga over TV rights and stuff. Forcing Tebas hands in this issue is far more important.
With the number of racist incidents like these that have occurred and made public, it's quite astounding that some of these people still feel very safe acting this way knowing very well that they can easily be recorded and exposed at any moment. There is no fear for repercussions because there are none. The only excuse a club might have to not punish these people is that while there is clear audio of the offenses, there is not always video available to identify the specific individuals. These people feel safe because there is a level of anonymity in the stands. Valladolid's might as well not have put out any message if they are going to publish this typical weak shit saying the condem racism. At least say that you were working on identifying the individuals even if that may be impossible. These people need to feel some fear that they will be identify and punished.
And how exactly are they supposed to be "punished." In a free society people should have freedom of speech. It may not be as prevalent in stadiums here in the US (racist language) but I'm not sure how exactly you would begin deciding what is a derogatory, defamatory or disparaging and then banning such speech from stadiums. What do we value more dearly, the right to free speech or the right not to not hear things we don't want to hear (which is not a right that I know of)? I'm in now way condoning racist language but I will distinguish words from actions and I think racism is more about action (denying rights, employment, etc.) than it is about name calling.
This has absolutely nothing to do with free speech. These clubs are private entities and are free to choose who attends their events. Seems pretty straightforward to me that if you’ve got fans in Spain yelling “m***” or fans here throwing around the n-word or some similar shit that the clubs are well within their rights to ban those people (if they can ID them) and that’s exactly what should happen, and it’s not at all unreasonable to expect that effort at a bare minimum.
Different leagues around the world in different sports have been able to identify people in the crowd who throw stuff on the pitch and they’ve been banned. There’s so much camera footage. It’s not easy but it’s not impossible either. That’s the only way to control some of this inside the stadium. Identify some of these people and ban them from entering the stadium ever again. I think that will deter the next asshole. I’m extremely disappointed in my club and their lack of action regarding this. We cleaned our house somewhat when Florentino banned the ultras but being one of the most powerful and influential sporting institutions in the world we have not done nearly enough to pressure the league or the government itself to take some steps……any steps or at the very least show some compassion for the victims instead of slamming them on Twitter. And even if the club doesn’t want to go against the political winds at least they can take action in their own house. They don’t need permission for that. They can start monitoring the crowds more closely. Have people standing in the isles monitoring, cameras facing the stands etc etc Dembele or Vinicius or Inaki or anybody else shouldn’t have to hear this stuff shouted at them when all they’re doing is their job.
The Ultras weren't banned because of their political stance, they were banned because they were making people feel unsafe to attend the games, by people meaning our own fans. They were hurting the bottom line. With Vinicius, a large part of the country considers him a clown an a provocative person, look at how media reports about him outside of the Madrid bubble: https://www.estadiodeportivo.com/fu...-vuelve-ser-protagonista-20221111-407637.html "Vinicius is a star but the majority of the attention is on the lack of respect he shows to his opponents". There's even guys that report on Real Madrid and have access to the club and subscribe to this idea that Vini is overdoing it and that insults to the players are normal, shut up and play etc. etc. I like how pointing out that reality that those insults are part of the every day culture and even part of it in Madrid makes ME the person at fault. Let's lead with example. The next time Dembele gets insulted, the club should close the gate for 2 games. Oh, we wont? That's too bad.
Do you think this ?, if not why do you think they all think this. Yes we should, again, just because it's everyday culture doesn't mean we should not even appear to have a voice against it I think i've seen you yourself claim the majority of our revenue isn't from fans going through the turnstiles but from fans buying merchandise and watching the games from around the world, if that's the case (i could be wrong here) could watching that happen in our own stadium turn "our own fans" off and "hurt the bottom line" re the club? No?, impossible?, what do you think?
To be clear I’m not sure I believe anyone should have to shut doors for incidents that probably involve .01% of their fans but I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable to expect them to make a good faith attempt to identify and ban that .01%, and that certainly includes us.
Do stadium bans work? I always wondered since there are thousands of people coming in and no ID required. I doubt that it actually works since it’s hard to control