All ACC team the 007 way

Discussion in 'Women's College' started by Tom81, Nov 17, 2020.

  1. Tom81

    Tom81 Member+

    Jan 25, 2008
    We pick 11 players and 4 subs to play the best PAC12 all star team.
    Who you got?
    I don't have a strong feeling at GKer.
    Following are the ones I have a strong feeling about.
    Backline of Fox, Bell, Berkely and Madrill. Either Madrill or Bell would move out wide.
    Howell at the 6.
    Robbins at the 7 or 10.
    Pinto at the ?
    Spaanstra 11

    Who else you got?
    Jarrett? Godrey? West? Zhao? Nighswonger? Jones????
     
  2. Louisvillereferee

    Real Madrid
    United States
    Apr 11, 2017
    Emina Ekic @ the 10
     
  3. Tom81

    Tom81 Member+

    Jan 25, 2008
    I really like Ekic.
     
  4. Respect the Game

    PSG
    United States
    Apr 17, 2019
    USA
    West seems like a great addition. What about Ordonez, Godfrey and I like Zhao too.
     
  5. Tom81

    Tom81 Member+

    Jan 25, 2008
    Who you got in goal?
     
  6. Respect the Game

    PSG
    United States
    Apr 17, 2019
    USA
    I would hold that spot until Spring.
     
  7. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    #7 Number007, Nov 18, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2020
    @Respect the Game

    3-5-2 to start...

    GK Dickey
    CB Bell - Berkeley - Madril
    RWB Spaanstra LWB Fox
    CDM Howell Jones
    CAM Ekic
    FWD Cox Jarrett

    Subs - Zhao, GK, Pinto, M Morris

    LF and RF set piece taker
    Toughness
    Leadership
    Wingbacks who can defense a bit, but dont have to
    Good enough in the MF areas to outpass a press
    Pace and strength at FWD to get behind or come short.
    Tactical flexibility off the bench.

    Need a back up GK.

    That team would be very hard to beat in a best of 3
     
    Tom81 repped this.
  8. Tom81

    Tom81 Member+

    Jan 25, 2008
    Good team.
    Hard to argue, because it's all "eye of the beholder", iow opinions.
    GKers are the hardest.
    The GKers for FSU and UNC did not face many tests.
    How well would a GKer from other teams do?
    I gotta' have Robbins in there. She play makes, scores, defends and is tactically
    sound and clever. She would push Ekic to sub status IMO.
     
  9. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    #9 Number007, Nov 18, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2020
    @Tom81

    Every position is hard unless you have seen a lot of the payers concerned. Full disclosure, I have seem most of these players for a very long time. Long before College. Ive seen Madril the least.

    I picked a 2 GK for squad reasons. Cant risk a GK getting injured. For me, Dickey is well ahead of the other ACC GKs.

    I tried to pick a team. Robbins is a fine player, but I need a creator in that role for my choice of formation. Pinto is more versatile and could easily start over Jones or Ekic. Im not picking my favorite GK, 4D, 4M and 2F. I would start Zhao over Ekic if i knew she could 75 minutes.

    I left out several players i like for squad reasons. I also tried to out as many players in a position to play to their strengths as I could.

    College soccer rules really favor CAM type players. I want players who excel at something.

    PS without a formation, its hard.
     
  10. Tom81

    Tom81 Member+

    Jan 25, 2008
    It's all good. It's just opinions.
     
  11. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    I guess, but very hard to evaluate them without a formation.
     
  12. Tom81

    Tom81 Member+

    Jan 25, 2008
    #12 Tom81, Nov 19, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020
    007
    " picked a 2 GK for squad reasons. Cant risk a GK getting injured. For me, Dickey is well ahead of the other ACC GKs."
    Not saying you're wrong, but why do you think Dickey is well ahead of the others?
    Roque gave up 6 goals, 2 of which were PKs.
    Heck one of the other GKers who faced a lot more pressure might deserve the position.
    Dickey did not look great against us. We should have had AT LEAST one more goal.
    Can't wait to see if the spring season and NCAAT actually happen. I like FSU's chances, but a lot can happen between now and then.
     
  13. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    "Roque gave up 6 goals, 2 of which were PKs.
    Heck one of the other GKers who faced a lot more pressure might deserve the position.
    Dickey did not look great against us. We should have had AT LEAST one more goal."

    There are statistics that try and normalize almost all of these questions - xG vs Actual and others.
    You dont need to only rely on perception alone. Players have good and bad games. The more data you have, the better. We all have bias, its what makes us fans.



    Stats suggest a slightly different picture
     
  14. Tom81

    Tom81 Member+

    Jan 25, 2008
    #14 Tom81, Nov 20, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
    Let's see. They got a PK, legit, but still not a run of play goal.
    The last 1 minute goal was a clear offsides not called.
    The 3-2 score was as deceiving as the 4-0 score over Duke.
    Additionally their GKer came out twice and either got a handball, or
    came very close each time. Not called. Not called. Not called.

    I'll be honest, I don't get all those stats.
    What picture is it painting? Summarize it please.
     
  15. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    Lot of information there. Search xG soccer, I'm sure you will get articles that explain it better than I can on a forum. The one I found most interesting was that if you simulate every shot taken 1000x, the probabilities were

    UNC win 77pct
    Draw 16pct
    FSU win 7pct

    Same analyst on the Duke game



    As you can see, the advanced metrics from that game totally contradict your opinion. Im not saying one is right or wrong. Im pointing out that different people look at games in very different ways.
     
  16. Tom81

    Tom81 Member+

    Jan 25, 2008
    I'm not a stats guy.
    But if the conclusion of those stats are that UNC had a 77% chance of winning and FSU only a 7% chance, then I can only conclude that it's a faulty system.

    FSU dominated the first half and had best chance not scored with a little over a minute to go in the half.
    We scored early in the 2nd half (run of play) and then we got a little conservative, especially the last 20 minutes.
    I can only assume that their flurry of activity trying to get the 2nd goal must have generated stats the above system likes.
    There were very few really close calls that UNC had other than the late offsides score.
    Now I don't like playing defensive 'hold the lead' soccer. That said, me telling Mark he should have done differently is like my 8 year old grand daughter telling Einstein he needs to rework his numbers.

    If it makes you happy to tell me that UNC should have won that game, then God Bless You!
    Stats aside, I'm guessing the large large majority of people who saw it either in person, or on TV would disagree.

    I like Mark Twain's take. "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.";
    "Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is a phrase describing the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments.
     
    sweepsit repped this.
  17. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    "If it makes you happy to tell me that UNC should have won that game, then God Bless You!"

    Not what i said at all. I showed you analysis that provided a different PoV. I even said
    " Im not saying one is right or wrong. Im pointing out that different people look at games in very different ways."

    After the game I wrote that I was happy to see the side who tried to play the most progressive soccer won. I also said you have to watch the games. I know that when I watch a team I root for play, my bias can come into play.

    I recall a thread praising FSU for having so many players near the top of InStat ratings. InStat is using a statistical model to do that. Its not based on watching the games at all. Does that mean we only use the stats that confirm our existing views?

    I enjoy reading @cpthomas posts because many of them are statistical. They provide a great balance to the majority of posts here that are more personal opinions.
     
  18. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As a complete outsider, I watched most of the Duke game. My take on the game was that it almost was like women playing girls, FSU was that much better. (And, I do not intend that as a critique of Duke.) I did not watch the FSU v UNC game, notwithstanding that I thought it would give a good read on how good UNC is.

    As an aside, I also watched the UNC v Virginia game. My take on that was that the UNC first team was significantly better than Virginia, but Virginia was significantly better than the UNC second team.
     
  19. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    Ha. I just mentioned you. The advance metrics support your view on the Duke game.
     
  20. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
     
  21. Tom81

    Tom81 Member+

    Jan 25, 2008
    cpt. Time permitting take a look at the FSU North Carolina game. I would like your take on that.

    The stat suggesting North Carolina had a 77% chance of winning were stunning to me. I think they will be stunning to you as well.
     
  22. SoccerTrustee

    SoccerTrustee Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I feel the ACC got it wrong for goalkeeper selections for the All Conference teams. Dickey from UNC, Roque from FSU, and Kouzelos from Louisville are all solid. But the best goalkeepers based on their individual performances were Lysianne Proulx from Syracuse and Hensley Hancuff from Clemson. Hancuff is an imposing 6'3" figure in net and can back that up with game changing saves. Proulx is a Canadian national team goalkeeper that was very good on shot stopping, breakaways, crosses, and distribution. Proulx won't get considered because of how bad Syracuse is but she made some amazing saves for a team that couldn't hold the ball or defend in front of her. If I had to draft for a team I would take those 2 goalkeepers over Roque, Dickey, or Kouzelos in a heartbeat.
     
  23. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018





    I know several people that agree with you on Hancuff. I will try and look at Proulx metrics.
     
  24. Tom81

    Tom81 Member+

    Jan 25, 2008
    I have no problem with UNC/FSU's keepers not making 1s 2 teams.
    They weren't tested.
     
  25. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    That logic can be applied all over the field, which is why some people use statistical metrics to assist in making objective judgements on players who are in differing situations. Apologies if I am stating the obvious, but the analyst above is saying that basis stats Hancuff has faced shots that should add up to 9g and conceded only 2. Usage (being tested, facing more shots) is relevant in that it increases sample size. A keeper who faced double the xG and conceded 4g would be equivalent. There is a lot more to being a GK than stopping shots and xG does not directly measure, so you can avoid actually watching the games.
     

Share This Page