Alignment, Playoffs, Stadiums 2005-07

Discussion in 'MLS: Expansion' started by Mr Fish, Jun 21, 2004.

  1. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish Member

    Feb 2, 1999
    W. Orange <-> NYC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some thoughts on divisional alignments, playoff teams, stadium lineups over the next few seasons. Please feel free to shred, ignore, praise, abort, retry, delete...

    2005
    East
    Columbus
    DC United
    MetroStars
    New England

    Central
    Chicago
    Colorado
    Dallas
    Kansas City

    West
    Chivas USA (new)
    LA Galaxy
    San Jose
    Seattle (new)

    '05 Playoffs: Division Winners + 1 Wild Card: 4 of 12 teams

    2006
    East
    Columbus
    DC United
    MetroStars
    New England
    Rochester (new)

    Central
    Chicago
    Colorado
    Dallas
    Houston (new)
    Kansas City

    West
    Chivas USA
    LA Galaxy
    San Jose
    Seattle

    '06 Playoffs: Division Winners + 2 Wild Cards: 5 of 14 teams

    2007 (w/Stadia: *: SSS)
    Atlantic
    DC United: RFK
    MetroStars: MetroCentre* (hee hee)
    New England: Gilette
    Philadelphia (new): The Linc

    Midwest
    Chicago: Firehouse*
    Columbus: CCS*
    Kansas City: Arrowhead
    Rochester: PaeTec*

    Central
    Colorado: Rapids Park*
    Dallas: Frisco*
    Houston: Reliant
    San Antonio (new): Alamodome

    Pacific
    Chivas USA: HDC*
    LA Galaxy: HDC*
    San Jose: I have no idea
    Seattle: Seahawks

    '07 Playoffs: Division winners + 2 wild cards: 6 of 16 teams or 38%

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Bonji

    Bonji Moderator

    Feb 4, 2003
    Denver, Colorado
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't want to see the creation of more divisions with expansion. I would rather see two divisions with the playoffs staying the same so it becomes harder to get into them. Let's give these guys something to play for during the regular season.
     
  3. BulaJacket

    BulaJacket Member

    Columbus Crew (hometown), Minnesota United (close ties), Colorado Rapids (now home), Jacksonville Armada (ties)
    United States
    May 9, 2003
    Ashtabula, OH / Denver, CO / MN / Jax
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thoughts? 3 divisions are horrible.

    4 isn't that great either. IMHO, we should stick with 2.
     
  4. billward

    billward Member

    Oct 22, 2002
    El Cerrito, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ixnay on the entralcay ivisionday.

    Add Chivas and SLC or Seattle to Western and move FC Dallas to Eastern. (They're changing name and logo and stadium, why not conference too?)

    Going forward, add one Western and one Eastern team each year. For 2006, add Rochester and whichever of SLC/Seattle doesn't make it this year.
     
  5. sounderfan

    sounderfan New Member

    Apr 6, 2003
    Exactly!
     
  6. killbilly

    killbilly New Member

    Nov 24, 2003
    Seattle and LA are more than likely in next year so hopefully we will see one single table with the top 6 teams playing for the cup. I get the feeling that MLS is trying to add more glory to the League winners since they are the ones playing in the CONCACAF Cup (along with the MLS Cup winners) and the playoffs historically have drawn less fans than the regular season. And with going to a single table they won't have to worry about having an East and West team or two Eastern teams join in in 2006.
     
  7. (TxT)

    (TxT) Member+

    Jun 9, 2004
    Tampa, FL
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess you don't expect any teams in the southeast and Florida.
    :D
     
  8. BulaJacket

    BulaJacket Member

    Columbus Crew (hometown), Minnesota United (close ties), Colorado Rapids (now home), Jacksonville Armada (ties)
    United States
    May 9, 2003
    Ashtabula, OH / Denver, CO / MN / Jax
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do You? :)
     
  9. houston_fc

    houston_fc Member

    Nov 22, 2003
    Houston, TX
    I think it will be more like this...

    2005
    Eastern Conference
    Columbus (Columbus Crew Stadium)
    DC United (RFK Stadium)
    MetroStars (Giants Stadium)
    New England (Gillette Stadium)
    Chicago (Soldier Field)
    FC Dallas (Frisco Stadium)


    Western Conference
    Colorado (Invesco Field at Mile High)
    Kansas City (Arrowhead Stadium)
    Chivas USA (Home Depot Center)
    Los Angeles (Home Depot Center)
    San Jose (Spartan Stadium)
    Salt Lake City (Rice-Eccles Stadium)

    '05 Playoffs: Top 4 teams from each conference qualify



    2006
    Eastern Conference
    Columbus (Columbus Crew Stadium)
    DC United (RFK Stadium)
    MetroStars (Giants Stadium)
    New England (Gillette Stadium)
    Chicago (Bridgeview Stadium)
    FC Dallas (Frisco Stadium)
    Houston (Reliant Stadium)


    Western Conference
    Colorado (Invesco Field at Mile High)
    Kansas City (Arrowhead Stadium)
    Chivas USA (Home Depot Center)
    Los Angeles (Home Depot Center)
    San Jose (Spartan Stadium)
    Salt Lake City (Rice-Eccles Stadium)
    Seattle (Qwest Field)

    '06 Playoffs: Top 4 teams from each conference qualify



    2007
    Same as 2006.... no new expansion teams. However, a few teams will get new stadiums.

    Eastern Conference
    Columbus (Columbus Crew Stadium)
    DC United (New SSS Stadium)
    MetroStars (Harrison Stadium)
    New England (Gillette Stadium)
    Chicago (Bridgeview Stadium)
    FC Dallas (Frisco Stadium)
    Houston (Reliant Stadium)

    Western Conference
    Colorado (New SSS Stadium)
    Kansas City (Arrowhead Stadium)
    Chivas USA (Home Depot Center)
    Los Angeles (Home Depot Center)
    San Jose (Spartan Stadium)
    Salt Lake City (Rice-Eccles Stadium)
    Seattle (Qwest Field)

    '07 Playoffs: Top 4 teams from each conference qualify
     
  10. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish Member

    Feb 2, 1999
    W. Orange <-> NYC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All very good comments & ideas, thanks.

    In today's pro sports landscape, leagues are moving to more divisions with fewer teams in order to keep fan interest. For example, next season the NBA will shift to six five-team divisions. The NFL now has eight four-team divisions. With more divisions of fewer teams, "the cellar" is only fourth or fifth place rather than seventh or eighth. That way a team is never "too far away" from the top.

    MLS had a three-division structure in 2000 and 2001.

    The idea of adding an Eastern and Western team each year is nice, but I think we can all agree that MLS will take the ownership groups (and few are beating down the door) it can take when the opportunity exists.

    As for expecting teams in the southeast or Florida, I'm not aware of any possible ownership groups that part of the country. If anyone else has, please share.
     
  11. ChuckA

    ChuckA New Member

    Apr 4, 2002
    Atlanta, GA
    All of which makes the meaning of the division champion moot. And, with an odd number of divisions, a team that wins the division will not have home field advantage in the semi-finals.

    Stick with two divisions/conferences.
     
  12. metros11

    metros11 Member

    Sep 11, 1999
    Highlands of NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That looks better (if those teams actually do enter the league). 16 teams, play each other twice. Thats a total of 30 games a season. 8 in the playoffs.
     
  13. Revolt

    Revolt Member+

    Jun 16, 1999
    Davis, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Change the dates from 2005, 2006 and 2007 to 2006, 2009 and 2012.
     
  14. suppitty

    suppitty Member

    Mar 15, 2004
    DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    2005:
    East:
    DC United: RFK
    Metros: Giants Stadium
    Revs: Gillette
    Chicago: soldier field
    Colubus : Crew stadium
    KC: Arrowhead
    West:
    Dallas-Frisco
    Galazy-HDC
    Chivas USA-HDC
    Seattle-Seahawks Stadium
    Rapids- Invesco
    San Jose- Spartan Stadium

    2006: No new expansion, but plans are allready made for 2007, and teams move to new stadiums.
    East
    DCU-RFK
    MEtros-meadowlands
    columbus-crew stadium
    fire- Bridgeview
    KC- Arrowhead
    Revs-Gillette
    West
    Dallas-Frisco
    Galaxy-HDC
    Chivas-HDC
    Rapids- whatever the name of their sss is going to be
    seattle- seahawks stadium
    san jose- spartan stadium

    2007: Big change in the MLS, and increase popularity due to 2006 WC. new homes for teams, and new teams added.
    East:
    DCU-new SSS on Anacostia river.
    Metros- new SSS
    Rochester- Paetec Park
    The Hartford Revolution-temporarily at the UConn fball stadium (Rentschler field or something)
    Columbus-Crew Stadium
    Fire-Bridgeview
    KC- Arrowhead (sadly)
    Philly-THe Linc

    West
    America USA- SSS in San Antonio, or alamodome untill its ready.
    Salt Lake City- whatever stadium they would play in (maybe SSS)
    Dallas- Frisco, and a new derby with San Antonio based America
    Galaxy- HDC
    Chivas- HDC
    San Fransisco* Earthquakes- quakes move to san fran, and their new SSS.
    Seattle- Seahawks stadium
    Rapids-that SSS that i cant name.

    Well that is my extremely optomistic look on the next few years of MLS. It all depends on the USMNT's success at the 2006 WC. That will hopefully spark more interest. If this comes true then we are looking at 16 teams in 2007 with as many as 13 SSS's possible, and as little as 9 ready. If MLS ever reaches 20 teams, they should scrap the two confrences, and make it one table.
     
  15. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just by the fact that the 12-team MLS shoe-horned Tampa into the "central" division back in the day leads me to believe we will see some sort of reincarnation of the 3-division format with 12 teams. The good thing about it was that the playoffs were fairer--the 3 division winners, plus the 5 next teams, and opponents were ranked 1-8. I could live with that, although I'd prefer keeping the East-West thing.

    Geographical divisions only work if you add teams more or less on geographical boundries, which we aren't going to see here. Better to take the 2 best options regardless than to pick Atlanta only because they would fit into the East better than San Antionio.

    So if are playing fantasy land, let's assume we take Chivas (LA) and Seattle for the next round, and San Antonio and Rochester for the following: This is how I see it shaking out:

    Next expansion: 2006
    EAST:
    New England
    Metro
    DC United
    Columbus

    CENTRAL:
    Chicago
    Dallas
    Kansas City
    Colorado

    WEST:
    Los Angeles
    San Jose
    Chivas
    Seattle

    30 games: Own division 4x (12), 2x each vs. all other teams (16), 1 extra game vs. team in corresponding position in each division (2)

    If San Antonio and Rochester join the following roiund, they go into the Central and East. Division winners, plus the next 5 highest point totals go to the playoffs.

    A team in a 5-team division would play 4x4 in own division (16), 2x4 and 2x5 vs the other divisions (18) total of 34 games. Teams in the 4 team division would play other divisions 2x10 (20) and play their 2 teams in their own division 5x and the other 4x (14)


    For argument's sake, if the round after that gives us St. Louis and Philadelphia, we'll split to 4x4, with only the division winners and next 4 best point totals going through.

    The schedule would have teams play their own division 4x (12), two other divisions 2x (16) and the other division once each (4) swapping divisions each year so that it would never be more than 2 years between visits for any team.

    ATLANTIC:
    New England
    Metro
    DC United
    Philadelphia

    GREAT LAKES:
    Chicago
    Columbus
    Rochester
    St. Louis

    SOUTHWEST:
    Dallas
    Kansas City
    San Antonio
    Colorado

    PACIFIC:
    Los Angeles
    San Jose
    Chivas
    Seattle

    Tom
     
  16. HalaMadrid

    HalaMadrid Member

    Apr 9, 1999
    I think that is the most reasonable and likely expansion/league format outlook I've seen on these boards pretty much ever.
     
  17. Frieslander

    Frieslander Member
    Staff Member

    Feb 14, 2000
    North Jersey
    I don't like 4 team divisions. Too many divisions just creates artificial first place teams. There should be a minimum of 5 teams in a division. Of course, I prefer a single table but I'm trying to me realistic.
     
  18. Mr Fish

    Mr Fish Member

    Feb 2, 1999
    W. Orange <-> NYC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I find it interesting that all of the suggestions include keeping an 8-team playoff, when folks frequently bring up the notion that the current 8-team playoff makes the regular season "meaningless." I guess moving from 80% playoff teams to 66% (8 of 12) to 57% (8 of 14) gives that much more meaning to the regular season for everyone?

    Personally, I love the exclusivity of the NFL's 40% (12 of 30) and MLB 26% (8 of 30) playoff teams. Those systems (usually) mean that only the cream of the crop make the post-season.

    It's all about revenue, I guess, but a more exclusive post-season would definitely give regular season matches a little more oomph. What do you think?
     
  19. Brownswan

    Brownswan New Member

    Jun 30, 1999
    Port St. Lucie, FL
    Mexico 1. is comprised of 4 groups or conferences, and the arrangement works fine. An even more complicated setup works in the NFL, too. Frankly, I'm all for minimizing cross-continent travel, and maximizing regional match-ups. Again, see the NFL.

    The less AvGas used by all of us, the better. It's coming to that, and the sooner we get used to it the better for us all.

    -- and if it hasn't been posted yet, better think SLC instead of Seattle for 2005.
     
  20. bordelais7

    bordelais7 Member

    May 13, 2003
    Centreville, VA
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Yes.
     
  21. needsashower

    needsashower New Member

    May 2, 2004
    down by the river
    MLS has been moving towards being more like the European leagues. So I think once they get to 16 teams we'll see the single table, but with the top 8 making the playoffs.

    THe following is purely hypothetical and mentioned just to stimulate debate:

    There seem to be many other potential markets. Can we see an MLS2 with another 16 teams? It would also bring the possibility of pro/rel which many of us would like to see. Here's a list of candidates mentioned as expansion franchises already:

    Cleveland
    Detroit
    Atlanta
    Orlando
    Las Vegas
    South Florida
    Oklahoma City
    New York 2 / Connecticut
    Indy
    Sacramento
    San Diego
    Portland
    St. Louis
    Milwaukee
    Nashville or Memphis
    Oakland or San Francisco
    Birmingham
    Carolina
    Minnesota
    Phoenix
     
  22. Stilger

    Stilger Member

    Nov 7, 2002
    Orange County
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it is generally understood that, while there is a minority here would like to see these come to pass, neither pro/rel or single table is within MLS's foreseeable future.

    I would like to see an MLS2, hopefully incorporating the A-league, but the set up should be similar to what baseball has with it's Triple A leagues.
     
  23. crusio

    crusio New Member

    May 10, 2004
    Princeton
    4 teams of 12 make the playoffs.. best of 3 in the first round with the team with the better record getting homefield.. currently these regular season games have no juice cause there is literally nothng to play for. like 30 exhibition games... This could be the single biggest problem in MLS...
     
  24. Sanguine

    Sanguine Member

    Jul 4, 2003
    Reston, VA
    I'd rather see MLS2 work more like the American/National Leagues in baseball. It would allow MLS to reach the team numbers of other U.S. sports, while remaining within FIFA's goal of 16-team leagues.

    of course, that's a looooong ways off. ;)
     
  25. skyscraper

    skyscraper Member

    Dec 6, 2003
    Philadelphia
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You forgot Philadephia.
     

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