Alfredo Morales discussion thread

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by bshredder, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Bradley still impacts games? Positively you mean? I'd argue that vehemently, since he has just (2 years ago!!!) led a team to it's biggest disaster in history, and his MLS-highest salary club team is about to miss the playoffs for a 2nd straight year (not to mention the numerous giveaways and defensive lapses that have been highlighted ad nauseam).

    He simply has not done to this point? Again, back to my initial post, why are we taking performances from 4 years ago and assuming a player cannot improve or regress, when you've basically said "yes, he's improved in Germany". Am i mistaken in that you are simply saying he is cannot improve for the natl team, but has for his club team?
     
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  2. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    #127 DHC1, Aug 22, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
    Are you implying that today’s bradley is more impactful at the international level than Morales would be? Your argument would have at least a little merit if he actually was called into a camp and played USMNT games and didn’t look better than Bradley/Trapp.

    Separately, I guess you didn’t want Long to get a look at the team either as four years ago he wasnt impactful for either club or country.
     
  3. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    Bradley has absolutely been more impactful. It's completely ridiculous to assert otherwise. Even as recent as the Gold Cup Bradley (in a reduced state) delivered some passing that led to chances. I can't remember Morales ever delivering an assist or a key pass (correct me if I'm wrong). Dude has 13 call-ups and started in the disastrous 4-1 shellacking at home to the powerhouse Republic of Ireland.

    He needs to do more to earn minutes. Period.

    I'm all for him earning more minutes, but to suggest that he already deserves them more than Bradley is ridiculous on its face.

    If he's better than Bradley, he should have no problem coming in and showing more than Bradley. Dish some dimes. Break up some plays. Deliver some killer balls. Do something.
     
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  4. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Lol. Maybe Berhalter should call in a player who is good enough to start for a midtable team. You can’t say “he should have no problem” when the problem is that Berhalter won’t call him in.

    I assume you think that Bradley is good enough to play in the B1 now since he “delivered some passes that led to chances” and you think he’s more impactful than Morales.

    We should also bring Jermaine Jones back because he was really really good 4-5 years ago.
     
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  5. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    All I'm saying is let them compete on the field. If Morales can provide more than Bradley, Adams, McKennie, Pomykal, etc., then let him do it. I'm sure he'll be called in at some point.

    These guys need to earn their spots with their play in INTERNATIONAL football.
     
  6. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    But yet Bradley (or Trapp) has been been the first name penciled in to every game. What did they do to earn their spots under Berhalter? They’ve been average at best MLS players and have been less than average at the international level vs decent competition.

    Meanwhile, a B1 starter hasn’t even been named to a 40-man roster during the off-season. SMH.
     
  7. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    How do you recommend he accomplish this? Buy a ticket on Lufthansa and show up unannounced with some cleats and shin pads?
     
  8. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    It's pretty easy. When you're called in, get the job done.
     
  9. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    What if you don't get called up? Does that just mean you're simply not good enough, as Egg knows best?
     
  10. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    Given the nature of the last call-ups, I'd say that a Berrhalter call-up is his last shot.
     
  11. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    That doesn't answer my question. How does a BL starter outperform a non-MLS all-star if he doesn't get called up?
     
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  12. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    If he had made an impact in his last outing, we wouldn't be asking that question.
     
  13. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    So again, your position is that players can, and do, improve with their club teams, but don't deserve a chance to show improvement if they looked average with the national team 4 years ago. Despite showing simultaneous improvement with club.

    I don't know if this argument makes sense in your head, but I don't think many (any) would agree with you...
     
  14. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    A basic problem is that many people want to believe that MLS is better than it is.
     
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  15. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    Sorry, I call bull. The statistical net for the GC was no goals, 1 assist from MB. He swings for the fences well with the attempted home run balls but the tangible upside is limited and then we know exactly what the downside is. His MLS output is similar and doesn't suggest hidden utility we aren't tapping into.

    Put differently, if you are a trash 6 kept around for passing you need to be a lot more valuable than this because we actually give up goals and net negative for the privilege. Setting aside the obvious Adams, even a DM who simply ran sideline to sideline and did his job would net out better because he wouldn't allow the goals he does.
     
  16. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    Problem is, Morales was not even in the 40-man roster for the Gold Cup. How can that be explained?
     
  17. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    I am open to giving Morales a cap in service of trying new things but history suggests it passes anonymously. It's not like this would be his first runout. You kind of have to do something with it.....

    The league affiliation arguments, to me, sound like a substitute for player arguments that don't exist. Nothing special but give him the nod because B1 Rules and MLS Sucks. We don't select and dress "Bundesliga" or "Dusseldorf." We get the very specific item of "Alfredo Morales," who has to go on the field and prove that he's as good as advertised and not just ride arguments that on paper in theory our computers say that coaches could presume that......

    I think part of what messes up USMNT these days is we get into these stupid, abstracted, "but isn't it obvious that ________" presumptions instead of watching what transpires on the pitch. Why play the friendlies or matches if personnel management is done by either club affiliation or club playing time?
     
  18. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    We can't compare these players "on the pitch" because only one or two guys gets to be on the pitch.

    So in absence of a direct meritocracy, we are forced to say "yes, BL is much better than MLS, and MB/Trapp wouldn't play there or else they would be there".
     
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  19. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    Morales has not played for the USMNT for several years so there is no relevant point of reference. Trapp and Bradley have played for the USMNT very recently and were very poor and poor, respectively.
     
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  20. UncagedGorilla

    Barcelona
    Sep 22, 2009
    East Bay, CA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    I feel like I'm the only one who remembers Morales being used largely as an outside midfielder on the national team. His most consistent run of play came in the era where we had a weird obsession with playing basically all center midfielders. Not only was his last game with the national team over four years ago, he didn't even play his natural position for most of the minutes he received!

    He may bomb out and you all can be proven right. That's okay and a risk I'm willing to take. Playing Bradley and Trapp every available minute at the 6 should never be acceptable or defended yet somehow it is.
     
  21. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    This is the key. It's turned into crushing everyone else just to defend these two guys, who are objectively poor players and have been for years.

    Guzan and Howard weren't very good, and the team moved off them quietly after the qualifying disaster (EXPERIENCE). The options were fine, but it's not like the younger guys were super established. Steffan was simply a good MLS gk, and Horvath had some good/bad stints in Belgium.

    But it was simple, it was natural, and the young guys weren't held to some high standard of, ya know, having to be Bundesliga starters!
     
  22. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR

    The sad part of the calculus is that Morales never showed enough to move either of them aside.

    Now that Bradley has diminished, it appears to be time for Tyler Adams or Weston McKennie to assume the role...leaving guys like Morales who never really showed much in the years that they have been called in (Morales has 13 caps, the last of which was in May of 2016 (not that long ago, really) out in the cold.

    I hope every player gets their shot on the field. I hope that they all perform well and make the coaches decision difficult.
     
  23. KicksNgiggles

    KicksNgiggles Member

    Aug 18, 2016
    BHM
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also 29 fyi but I get your point.
     
  24. KicksNgiggles

    KicksNgiggles Member

    Aug 18, 2016
    BHM
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe I am interpreting it differently but I disagree. You earn a spot in the side (in my mind meaning a call up) by your club play. You may keep your spot based on international play. But players get called in based on their club form.
     
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  25. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Morales's 2016 match was at LM against Puerto Rico. Essentially he wasn't given a shot.
     

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