Alfredo Morales discussion thread

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by bshredder, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    He says the following "U.S. Soccer scouted Cajuste for the most recent U-20 cycle and were impressed but eventually determined that he is not eligible as of yet". So he basically reports US Soccer opinion about the issue. That opinion might be wrong, and probably is. But that's U.S. Soccer mistake, not his. He isn't a lawyer and doesn't employ lawyers. He is a reporter and does his reporting job well, unlike USSF.
     
    majspike, deejay, BostonRed and 2 others repped this.
  2. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    He interprets the FIFA rules in his article, incorrectly. He does not identify who he talked with at the USSF. The bar for journalistic standards has been lowered with the advent of the Internet. But you are lowering it even further.

    If he is not legally trained, he should not be interpreting the rules. Interview someone at FIFA. Find out and interview the people at USSF who actually know about this stuff. But don't make a half a$$ed incorrect interpretation of the rules.
     
    TheHoustonHoyaFan repped this.
  3. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    He isn't interpreting anything, he reports US Soccer opinion and gives us a chance to see whether that opinion is right. If it happens to be wrong great for him for starting the discussion.
     
  4. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    You are mistaken:

    "As for his international future, Cajuste is a dual citizen and holds both American and Swedish passports. His international options, however, are limited at the moment.

    Under FIFA rules for players holding dual nationality, players can play for either country so long as he holds citizenship of the country he chooses and meets at least one of four additional criteria: 1) that the player was born in that country, or 2) that either of the player’s parents were born in that country, or 3) the player has a grandparent born in that country, or 4) the player has lived in that country continuously for at least two years.

    Under this FIFA rule, Cajuste meets none of these requirements as his Haitian-born father acquired his U.S. citizenship via naturalization. Neither Cajuste, nor either of his parents, or any of his grandparents were born in the United States while Cajuste himself has not lived in the United States for two consecutive years."

    He should at a minimum issue a correction on that misinterpretation.
     
    TheHoustonHoyaFan repped this.
  5. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    That's, pretty obviously, USSF's explanation given to him. Correction would be welcome, but more important is whether the federation people change their mind.
     
  6. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    #81 Marius Tresor, Aug 16, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
    "Pretty obviously"? It is not attributed to anyone. Come on, man. It is shoddy journalism and it is not defensible.

    But you may be right about lighting a fire under the USSF to get this right if they are indeed using that same misinterpretation at the highest decision-making level. That would be an opportunity for some real journalism to expose another aspect of the USSF's incompetence.
     
  7. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    Pretty obvious to me. I don't expect legal interpretations from a reporter, neither I'm interested in one.
     
  8. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    Your journalistic expectations are low. I expect interpretations of rules to be attributed, checked, and questioned for correctness. There is way too much fake news out there.
     
  9. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
  10. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    To be fair to bshredder, and as I conceded to BostonRed, there is a really weird but technically possible interpretation of 6.1 that renders Cajuste ineligible for the US right now.

    It would almost certainly be the result of a drafting error in the FIFA statutes, because it would essentially mean that only 7 arbitrarily chosen nations on the planet (and their associations) would be unable to cap someone in Cajuste's position.

    It's possible someone at USSF looked at Cajuste's case and applied that interpretation here out of an abundance of caution, without realizing that they had already come to a different and much more sensible conclusion previously -- in the cases of Morales and Robinson.

    That's giving everyone the benefit of the doubt here.
     
  11. SilentAssassin

    Apr 16, 2007
    St. Louis
    Please correct me if I'm wrong or putting words in his mouth, but I don't think he has said anything to indicate he is against dual nationals. He just thinks the program should sell itself and they should want to play for it, instead of the federation going to great lengths to recruit players who aren't already sold on playing for the US (Jonathan Gonzalez, for example)
     
    BostonRed repped this.
  12. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    This is not pretty obvious at all. He writes it as his own thought. Jumping from that to the assumption he is writing what someone at USSF told him is a significant leap of logic.
     
    Marius Tresor repped this.
  13. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    C’mon. He stated that the USSF told him that a prospect with a similar profile wasn’t eligible due to this interpretation.

    In hindsight, it would have been better to ask the USSF a follow up question wtt the inconsistency or at least write an article that doesn’t appear to throw Morales under the bus and give the opposing viewpoint that USSF is wrong.
     
  14. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Wouldn't it be better to ask USSF, FIFA, or a lawyer to get a final answer instead of throwing out an article that says something may be the case, but I'm not sure?
     
    Marius Tresor repped this.
  15. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I agree with this as I wrote. That’s not what you wrote though when you said it wasn’t from USSF.
     
  16. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    @BostonRed had problems interpreting the article. Ireland and N. Ireland had years of litigation going all the way to CAS. Yes, it's probable that this is the most likely interpretation. It is also possible that the USSF has decided to not risk litigation.
     
  17. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    It seems pretty clear to me, but maybe I am just better at statutory interpretation. In any event, a journalist should investigate and attribute statements like that. Check with FIFA, check with the USSF, confirm. You know, do your job.

    Because if you don't, we end up with this kind of incorrect information passed on as the gospel, contributing to a more ignorant society.
     
    TheHoustonHoyaFan and yurch10 repped this.
  18. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    well, at least this dumbass argument isnt all over at least 4 threads not including this one...
     
  19. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    Litigation? How about a simple letter from the USSF to FIFA requesting clarification?
     
  20. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I agree, the USSF has certainly dropped the ball here. There's more they could do.

    Indeed, I think that's the reason why Brain Sciaretta started this thread in the first place. He was incredulous on what he was hearing from the USSF and wanted to see if we had some clarification. In true BigSoccer fashion we not only clear up the issue but personally attack each other.
     
    Marius Tresor repped this.
  21. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    I am starting to think that a Big Soccer junta would do a better job of running the USSF.
     
  22. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Probably, but not if we immediately attack the wrong guy as the issue.
     
  23. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That is just not true.

    bshredder started this in Morales' YA thread where he even made a post which said "NO WAY that Morales should ever have been eligible to play"! The mods thankfully moved most of those posts from the YA thread to this thread in N&A.

    The fact that it started in Morales' YA thread as an attack on Alfredo's USMNT eligibility should be troubling to most of us.
     
    Namdynamo, bsky22, DHC1 and 1 other person repped this.
  24. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Oh, Ok. I did not know that.
     
    Marius Tresor repped this.
  25. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @bshredder should get a chance to clarify since everyone is talking about him.
     

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